HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #85 - Offseason Editon

[salbutera]

After years of over-relying on Gs for wins, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Habs end up with a fully built up team that can do damage, but no G to backstop it once it can.Fans have taken the G situation for granted throughout the years and have actually been extremely lucky along the way.

Look at teams like Philly, or EDM,since they lastaccumulatedallo their 1stOA picks and top-10 picks and you can see how not having a worthwhile #1G has been costly for some franchises throughout the years.

G is core to the Habs DNA, just as Lefty sluggers are to NYY or pitchers are to Dodgers.

 

[Scriptor]

G is core to the Habs DNA, just as Lefty sluggers are to NYY or pitchers are to Dodgers.

Sure is. I'm just worried they will hit a dry spell when it counts and they have built up the team properly infant of the decrease and up front on offense. Worst thing that could result from that is a return to the philosophy that the team should be built around the G in an attempt to win games 0 to (-1) again.

 

[Mrb1p]

I like how you spent years complaining about how Danault isn’t a 2C yet KK who had a career high of 43 points (fewer than 4 of Danaults last 5 seasons) playing next to Svech/Necas (blows Tatar/Gallagher out of the water) is a 2C.

Could he be a 2C? Sure, but he’s not a 2C as of now.

I’m taking Dach over KK with ease.

He played with Necas and Teravainen at ES mostly. Svechnikov was last year.

At 22, Danaults career high was 10 points. You have to wait three more years to see him beat Jesperis current career high.

I take Dach before Kotkaniemi too, but I don't think they are far apart in talent and impact at all, they are very much alike. Anyhow it doesn't matter as we've paid a hefty price for him, the Canes hardly did.

 

[BaseballCoach]

He played with Necas and Teravainen at ES mostly. Svechnikov was last year.

At 22, Danaults career high was 10 points. You have to wait three more years to see him beat Jesperis current career high.

I take Dach before Kotkaniemi too, but I don't think they are far apart in talent and impact at all, they are very much alike. Anyhow it doesn't matter as we've paid a hefty price for him, the Canes hardly did.

The Canes paid a 1st and 3rd for KK, and we moved Romanov, a 3rd and 4th for Dach

Roughly equal, but we were able to sign Dach for a lot less AAV than KK due to not offer-sheeting, for the first 4 years. For 2027-2030, we will see.

To me, Dach is a far superior player, though, and a tiny bit younger.

 

[HuGort]

The way Gallagher’s contract was structured, it’s one of the worst contracts given out in the cap era even if the AAV isn’t the highest. Its impressive how unmanageable it is with Gallagher playing like garbage while also being just healthy enough to stay off LTIR.

Everybody on this board liked that contract when signed. I just read the thread where he signed it

 

[Mrb1p]

The Canes paid a 1st and 3rd for KK, and we moved Romanov, a 3rd and 4th for Dach

Roughly equal, but we were able to sign Dach for a lot less AAV than KK due to not offer-sheeting, foir the first 4 years. àFor 2027-2030, we will see.

To me, Dach is a far superior player, though, and a tiny bit younger.

Hes paid a million more than Dach and Dachs contract ends in two seasons where he'll see a massive pay increase.

We can let it go, Bergevin got hosed by his own ego and the Canes made a good move, its fine.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Don't disagree... just hard to envision what player out there might actually be on the block next summer

Nylander, Guentzel & Stamkos are the only UFAs to-be that check the box, and not sure any are still there come July. If they are, the payday they'll seek & get will be silly.

Suzuki, CC, Dach: realistic shot
Slaf, Newhook: possibly
Roy, Mesar, Heineman: unlikely

Best case is that 2-4 of those 7 cross the threshold into ppg/40+g elite territory... then the wealth of assets on hand can be leveraged more for quality veteran help to shore up middle-6 depth, and make sure we upgrade in nets.

That, or winning top 3 pick via lottery, are more likely than us being able to find a trade partner willing to ship out an established elite talent imo

Hughes was pretty clear that he was stock piling picks and prospect to use as trade chips, and he and Gorton have said how crazy the UFA market is. I'd assume they'd be looking to trade for the player they want, rather than sign a UFA. Who that may be is a complete mystery as things change and players and teams situation evolve over time. With any luck, they can jump on a situation that goes south and take advantage of it. We'll see, but I expect a very busy off season next year.

We have to be lucky enough to be in a position to draft it. Otherwise, Hughes has to be willing to offload major assets to land it in a trade.

He has said he is willing to do just that.

 

[ML16]

Gallagher earning 9M in real money is also a major impediment to trading that contract anywhere early.

That time bomb in 2026-2027 can really screw up a Cap structure going forward if you are close to the Cap ceiling, as you haven now seen.


All good runs come to an end...

Not only would buying out Gallagher in 2025 entail a 4.25M penalty for 2026-2027, but upon further verifications, even buying him out in 2026 entails a 3.8M penalty for that same (likely crucial) 2026-2027 season…

In retrospect, biting the bullet and trading Gallagher with 50% retention and a significant incentive in the summer of 2025 - after his 9M AAV season(!) and especially once the Habs have claim back some salary retention spots - seems like the way to go; unless of course the optimal scenario occurs, namely Gallagher ending up on LTIR and becoming a neutral/beneficial asset!

 

[The Great Weal]

He played with Necas and Teravainen at ES mostly. Svechnikov was last year.

At 22, Danaults career high was 10 points. You have to wait three more years to see him beat Jesperis current career high.

I take Dach before Kotkaniemi too, but I don't think they are far apart in talent and impact at all, they are very much alike. Anyhow it doesn't matter as we've paid a hefty price for him, the Canes hardly did.

Nope. Line Combinations - Frozen Tools

Either way, his linemates were significantly better than Tatar/Gallagher who you claimed kept carrying Danault.

Ya I already made it clear that it can change in the future, but as of now he isn’t a 2C and their lack of center power after Aho is a large reason why they are 0-12 in their last ECF games.

 

[Ezpz]

The Canes paid a 1st and 3rd for KK, and we moved Romanov, a 3rd and 4th for Dach

Roughly equal, but we were able to sign Dach for a lot less AAV than KK due to not offer-sheeting, foir the first 4 years. àFor 2027-2030, we will see.

To me, Dach is a far superior player, though, and a tiny bit younger.

I don't think it's just to you, pretty much by every metric Dach is the superior player. Canes signed a long-term deal in the hopes that KK can become a #2C. With the cap rising it's still a manageable cap hit for a third liner. I actually think it doesn't bode well that KK wasn't wiling to bet on himself and took the safe money.

Dach does the things KK showed in flashes but does them every game. It's funny because they are such similar players in terms of upside and strengths. Dach has a slightly better shot, he's slightly stronger on the puck, his vision is slightly better, he's slightly bigger, he's slightly more physical. But all those things combine to create a much better player. Dach is more in line with what I think our scouting staff thought KK would be. It is well known that Finnish players in particular don't really take supplements and libelous things I can't mention and frequently are physically outmatched when first coming to North America. KK could still end up being what he was taken to be in a couple years. You'd think with Rod the bod as their coach Carolina would have the best conditioning in the league.

Still Dach is already better and 19 months younger. They had pretty similar totals last year except Dach missed 25 games and didn't play on a top 5 teams top six. KK's linemates also vastly outproduced him. I like to rag on KK because he signed the offer sheet but he's not a bad player, just a disappointment considering our hype for him. I'd take him over Dvo as the third line C. Dvo can't even stay healthy. I actually think in the summer of '25 if Carolina can't keep their D-core together they're going to have to rebuild. They have no prospects and their whole core is becoming 30 soon. I still believe the KK offer sheet closed their window, they had no cap space to make moves that first year they had Dougie Hamilton still and their best roster in franchise history. They replaced Dougie with Kotkaniemi which also caused them to lose Trochek and Niederreiter.

I think Dach will separate himself even more this year too. Carolina look like they're going to take a step back. Teravainen fell off a cliff last year and likely is out of his prime. Who knows if Svech is damaged goods, he's not ready to start the season. They apparently aren't able to re-sign Pesce and speculation was he'd be traded before the year started. Burns is 38, will he start to age? They kept Staal who was already falling off as well. Their big addition was Bunting who put up 40-something points playing with two 100+ point caliber players. I would not be surprised to see them closer to the wildcard spot. New Jersey should take a massive leap forward. Pens have a monster potential Edmonton-caliber PP now. Rangers have Shesterkin. They're lucky in that Columbus, Philly and the Islanders should be pretty bad. The Islanders in particular really believed they had a good team but it was just Trotz. I can't think of a team with more bad contracts than them; a ton of guys signed for huge money until they're 37-38 years old.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Everybody on this board liked that contract when signed. I just read the thread where he signed it

Somebody randomly quoted an old post I made in that thread not that long ago saying that contract was going to be a disaster in two years time. Lol I saw it coming a mile away and I know I couldn’t have been the only one.

 

[Mrb1p]

Nope. Line Combinations - Frozen Tools

Either way, his linemates were significantly better than Tatar/Gallagher who you claimed kept carrying Danault.

Ya I already made it clear that it can change in the future, but as of now he isn’t a 2C and their lack of center power after Aho is a large reason why they are 0-12 in their last ECF games.

He played 318 minutes with Svech and 648 without. That's 32% of his ES playing time. Also, Im not sure if were going to revisionist that far but Gallagher was probably comparable to Svech as a player in 2015-2017.

He's 22, he'll take a step forward, I have little doubt of that.

Dach isn't a "solid" 2C either on account of experience and production but Im ready to call him one right now, its the same principle. Heck, Id even call Dach a borderline 1C by the way he has played in preseason but thats another debate. The point is, we need to let go, the offersheet was a loss for us and a win for them. The team would look insane right now with

Caufield-Suzuki-Dach
Slaf-KK-Newhook
RHP-Monahan-Anderson

Legit contending forward corp. Another Bergevin special.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Everybody on this board liked that contract when signed. I just read the thread where he signed it

Did you find my reaction?

 

[Mrb1p]

I don't think it's just to you, pretty much by every metric Dach is the superior player. Canes signed a long-term deal in the hopes that KK can become a #2C. With the cap rising it's still a manageable cap hit for a third liner. I actually think it doesn't bode well that KK wasn't wiling to bet on himself and took the safe money.

Dach does the things KK showed in flashes but does them every game. It's funny because they are such similar players in terms of upside and strengths. Dach has a slightly better shot, he's slightly stronger on the puck, his vision is slightly better, he's slightly bigger, he's slightly more physical. But all those things combine to create a much better player. Dach is more in line with what I think our scouting staff thought KK would be. It is well known that Finnish players in particular don't really take supplements and libelous things I can't mention and frequently are physically outmatched when first coming to North America. KK could still end up being what he was taken to be in a couple years. You'd think with Rod the bod as their coach Carolina would have the best conditioning in the league.

Still Dach is already better and 19 months younger. They had pretty similar totals last year except Dach missed 25 games and didn't play on a top 5 teams top six. KK's linemates also vastly outproduced him. I like to rag on KK because he signed the offer sheet but he's not a bad player, just a disappointment considering our hype for him. I'd take him over Dvo as the third line C. Dvo can't even stay healthy. I actually think in the summer of '25 if Carolina can't keep their D-core together they're going to have to rebuild. They have no prospects and their whole core is becoming 30 soon. I still believe the KK offer sheet closed their window, they had no cap space to make moves that first year they had Dougie Hamilton still and their best roster in franchise history. They replaced Dougie with Kotkaniemi which also caused them to lose Trochek and Niederreiter.

I think Dach will separate himself even more this year too. Carolina look like they're going to take a step back. Teravainen fell off a cliff last year and likely is out of his prime. Who knows if Svech is damaged goods, he's not ready to start the season. They apparently aren't able to re-sign Pesce and speculation was he'd be traded before the year started. Burns is 38, will he start to age? They kept Staal who was already falling off as well. Their big addition was Bunting who put up 40-something points playing with two 100+ point caliber players. I would not be surprised to see them closer to the wildcard spot. New Jersey should take a massive leap forward. Pens have a monster potential Edmonton-caliber PP now. Rangers have Shesterkin. They're lucky in that Columbus, Philly and the Islanders should be pretty bad. The Islanders in particular really believed they had a good team but it was just Trotz. I can't think of a team with more bad contracts than them; a ton of guys signed for huge money until they're 37-38 years old.

A lot of misinformation in this post, of make belief.

Dachs main weakness is his shot, Kotkaniemi is a better shooter, Id give everything else to Dach comfortably. Both are nasty ass player that should be absolutely loved by their respective fan bases.

Dach is only 6 months younger than KK.

The Canes still have one of the best prospect pools in the league because their euro scout is a genious. Nikishin is one of the best defense prospect outside the NHL, Scott Morrow is also another bluechip defensive prospect, Bradley Nadeau, Gleb Trikozov, Alex Rykov, Felix UngerSorum, Jayden Perron, Cruz Lucius and Jackson Blake are all Joshua Roy-Sean Farell-ish quality forward prospects and they have other older prospects like Jack Drury, Robidas and Heimosalmi that are looking like they will be depth players. The Canes have in no way shape or form a weak prospect pool.

Its also pretty funny to see you call Kotkaniemis winger good in one paragraph and then proceed to rip them into AHL-fodder into the next, lol.

 

[DAChampion]

At 22, Danaults career high was 10 points. You have to wait three more years to see him beat Jesperis current career high.

Ownage.

A lot of misinformation in this post, of make belief.

Dachs main weakness is his shot, Kotkaniemi is a better shooter, Id give everything else to Dach comfortably. Both are nasty ass player that should be absolutely loved by their respective fan bases.

Dach is only 6 months younger than KK.

The Canes still have one of the best prospect pools in the league because their euro scout is a genious. Nikishin is one of the best defense prospect outside the NHL, Scott Morrow is also another bluechip defensive prospect, Bradley Nadeau, Gleb Trikozov, Alex Rykov, Felix UngerSorum, Jayden Perron, Cruz Lucius and Jackson Blake are all Joshua Roy-Sean Farell-ish quality forward prospects and they have other older prospects like Jack Drury, Robidas and Heimosalmi that are looking like they will be depth players. The Canes have in no way shape or form a weak prospect pool.

Its also pretty funny to see you call Kotkaniemis winger good in one paragraph and then proceed to rip them into AHL-fodder into the next, lol.

People are emotionally invested into arguing that Kotkaniemi is crap. It's irrational and you're wasting your time trying to educate them.

For what it's worth, id prefer Kotkaniemi as a 3C over Christian Dvorak, by a significant margin.

 

[The Great Weal]

He played 318 minutes with Svech and 648 without. That's 32% of his ES playing time. Also, Im not sure if were going to revisionist that far but Gallagher was probably comparable to Svech as a player in 2015-2017.

He's 22, he'll take a step forward, I have little doubt of that.

Dach isn't a "solid" 2C either on account of experience and production but Im ready to call him one right now, its the same principle. Heck, Id even call Dach a borderline 1C by the way he has played in preseason but thats another debate. The point is, we need to let go, the offersheet was a loss for us and a win for them. The team would look insane right now with

Caufield-Suzuki-Dach
Slaf-KK-Newhook
RHP-Monahan-Anderson

Legit contending forward corp. Another Bergevin special.

Lmao no matter how hard you try to spin it, his most common linemates were Svech/Necas which blows Tatar/Gallagher out of the water. No Gallagher and his career high 54 points was not comparable to Svech. Not to mention that the Canes are loaded with dmen who can actually do something offensively. which goes a long way to boost point totals.

He hasn't really taken much of a step forward since he got drafted.

That lineup is average, you aren't winning anything with KK as your 2nd line center unless he becomes drastically better. There's a reason why the Canes who have a vastly superior lineup to this haven't won a single ECF game.

 

[Ezpz]

A lot of misinformation in this post, of make belief.

Dachs main weakness is his shot, Kotkaniemi is a better shooter, Id give everything else to Dach comfortably. Both are nasty ass player that should be absolutely loved by their respective fan bases.

Dach is only 6 months younger than KK.

The Canes still have one of the best prospect pools in the league because their euro scout is a genious. Nikishin is one of the best defense prospect outside the NHL, Scott Morrow is also another bluechip defensive prospect, Bradley Nadeau, Gleb Trikozov, Alex Rykov, Felix UngerSorum, Jayden Perron, Cruz Lucius and Jackson Blake are all Joshua Roy-Sean Farell-ish quality forward prospects and they have other older prospects like Jack Drury, Robidas and Heimosalmi that are looking like they will be depth players. The Canes have in no way shape or form a weak prospect pool.

Its also pretty funny to see you call Kotkaniemis winger good in one paragraph and then proceed to rip them into AHL-fodder into the next, lol.

My math was definitely wrong on the age so I am wrong there. Kotkaniemi's release, however, is too slow to be effective. He's never been a goal scorer at any level because he takes too long to shoot. Dach may have a worse technical shot but he actually gets it off. It's been one of the elements of his game that has improved the most in his time here. He outpaced KK in goals last year. KK largely played with Necas and Svech. I didn't tear down either of those guys. After that his next most common linemates were Jarvis and Teravainen (the only guy I tore down). Aside from Nikishin, who may never come over, they don't have anything within to replace the quality of what they will be losing. Quantity doesn't replace Slavin or Pesce who have legitimately been two of the top 15 dmen in the league for years.

The forward prospects you're talking about largely haven't shown anything to suggest they'll be first line or impact players in the NHL (or even NHLers at all). One was a fourth round pick literally taken this past draft. Rykov under the best circumstances wouldn't even be in the NHL by the time Aho's prime is over. Trikozov is in his D+2 and can't crack the KHL. Others are also recent picks that don't project to be in the NHL within the next 3-4 years. They already took a step back last year offensively after losing Niederreitter and Trochek and should take another step back this year with all the aging vets. They have no immediate backup coming. Drury has not impressed in the NHL and seems to be more of a third liner. Roy was drafted for us in 2021 and under the absolute optimal development path he's not expected to make the team until at least next year. None of those guys are having Roy-level seasons or development paths and Roy isn't even expected to be an impact player. The guys they needed to be ready should have been drafted between 2017-2020. Right now that's just Necas, Jarvis and Svech.

They've got 30 year old Stefan Noesen in their lineup who only cracked one full-time roster in his 10 year career. This is a team that has played above it's potential because of the strength of their d corps. They were second in the league in goals against and have done well with a variety of goaltenders over the years. When Slavin and Pesce fall off or get traded or don't re-sign, do any of their goalies project confidence to be a #1? I think they're very closely approaching Vancouver early 2010's territory where their roster is good and is going to drop off suddenly. Of course Slavin and Pesce could both re-sign and age well into their 30's and it's a moot point. Ironically, they traded for Fox in the Hanifan and Lindholm trade probably thinking he would be that guy. In the end he didn't sign, they let Dougie walk and all of their picks are non-factor players.

If Svech doesn't recover entirely from his injury, I will boldly claim Carolina will finish 7th or lower in the conference this season and miss the playoffs next year. You can bookmark it. Again, the best thing in their favour is the Metro has several bad teams now.

 

[General Fanager]

They got a two-way physical beast 2nd line C for free on a great salary, Id say it worked out pretty well, lol. For instance, we had to give Romanov to get our version of that.

You understand I was talking about Kotkamiemi right? the same guy who falls over if you skate too close to him and has a career high of 43 pts.

yea I stick with Dach thanks.....

 

[Habssince89]

@Ezpz makes an excellent point about how Dach being slightly better than KK in a host of areas adds up to a much better player. It's clear KK is an NHLer and his contract in a vacuum is decent, but he's probably not a top6 player and Dach is looking like he could displace Suzuki as the Habs #1C over the next few seasons.

 

[Mrb1p]

You understand I was talking about Kotkamiemi right? the same guy who falls over if you skate too close to him and has a career high of 43 pts.

yea I stick with Dach thanks.....

Po mal sure faudrait tu regardes les games chum

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

The Dach trade was a win for the Habs. Romanov is easily replaceable. Nazar taken with the draft pick is too small even if he turns out to be a 1c since the Habs already have several small forwards.

 

[Mrb1p]

The Dach trade was a win for the Habs. Romanov is easily replaceable. Nazar taken with the draft pick is too small even if he turns out to be a 1c since the Habs already have several small forwards.

It was.

 

[General Fanager]

Po mal sure faudrait tu regardes les games chum

I watch almost every game. I have since I was a kid.

Just look at the numbers, Dach and KK had almost the same pts except one major thing...

Dach played 20 games less and played on a terrible team. KK is a 3rd liner, its not an insult. he is who he is.....

 

[Ezpz]

The Dach trade was a win for the Habs. Romanov is easily replaceable. Nazar taken with the draft pick is too small even if he turns out to be a 1c since the Habs already have several small forwards.

To be fair, Nazar was not the only option at 13 and he had a near season-ending injury in his D+1. If the Hawks get even one more point they end up in San Jose's spot and probably don't get Bedard. It was a calculated tank and they still finished third-to-last and got lucky. That being said, Dach is still more valuable than a mid-round first (though it could be argued his play played us out of that top 4 slot). Michigan lost a ton of talent over the summer so Nazar should be the guy there at center. Last year tons were pretty adamant they'd trade Dach for Nazar but I haven't heard much of that since Dach actually played for us.

 

[nhlfan9191]

To be fair, Nazar was not the only option at 13 and he had a near season-ending injury in his D+1. If the Hawks get even one more point they end up in San Jose's spot and probably don't get Bedard. It was a calculated tank and they still finished third-to-last and got lucky. That being said, Dach is still more valuable than a mid-round first (though it could be argued his play played us out of that top 4 slot). Michigan lost a ton of talent over the summer so Nazar should be the guy there at center. Last year tons were pretty adamant they'd trade Dach for Nazar but I haven't heard much of that since Dach actually played for us.

They were going for dead last. I highly doubt they thought there would be two teams worse then them. At the worst they probably thought they would be safely in the bottom 2. They got some dumb luck winning the lottery at 3.