HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #85 - Offseason Editon

[Nico Cauzuki]

He will want a team that is a contonder now, he will be 25 time is ticking.

if im EP signing a 8 year deal and looking at contending and winning cups im looking at teams like Anaheim,Columbus,Buffalo and Montreal who will have a solid roster for most of my new contract

Habs have a solid future on def and some nice pieces on offense but need that #1 center elite talent EP would make us a very solid team in 2/3 years

 

[Weltschmerz]

You are 25 and signing a big 8 year contract. Would you pick Boston when you know they can compete next couple seasons or would you pick Habs when you wait one more year and you will get 5 years of being a true contender_

I would try to avoid the atlantic division.

 

[Runner77]

A year from now is a better time to acquire Petersson than today.

The value of the Habs and Calgary's draft pick will go up, and hopefully many of the Habs prospects will have good seasons. For example Mailloux and Barron likely have marginal value now, but imagine if they both have good seasons.

A year from now, some other suitor may have traded for him.

The best time to acquire a player of Petersson’s ilk is yesterday as he’s such a rare asset. Someone will be willing to pay the price so it all boils down to whether or not Hughes is prepared to give up what it takes. I’ll be happy just knowing or finding out Hughes gave it his best shot.

 

[Scriptor]

I would try to avoid the atlantic division.

I would also be realistic and stop dreaming that,in just one more year -- even with Pettersson -- Montrealwill be a true contenderfor 5 years.

A lot of younger players still need to mature for that to happen.

At first, even with Mcdavid, Draisaitl and RNH -- better than Pettersson, Suzuki and Dach in terms offensive production -- Edmonton was just a bubble team and not guaranteed to make the playoffs, much less to go far in the playoffs as a true contender.

Montréalais npotone player away from winning a Cup, or coming close winning a Cup that soon, even if all their better, younger players exceed their projected ceilings.

Simply put, projected talent needs to develop before having a tangible impact on the ice.

 

[ReHabs]

You are 25 and signing a big 8 year contract. Would you pick Boston when you know they can compete next couple seasons or would you pick Habs when you wait one more year and you will get 5 years of being a true contender_

The Habs have no 1C prospect, no 1D or 1D prospect, no 1G or 1G prospect.

Who’s to say they’ll be a contender at any time? A lot has to go right for the Habs to contend for the Stanley Cup. So far this core hasn’t gotten out of the basement.

Acquiring EPettersson will be to establish the core. Further moves are needed to ensure success beyond that.

Anyway -/ this is just speculative. Having some fun. The price to acquire a star player will be too high for the Habs.

 

[DAChampion]

I would also be realistic and stop dreaming that,in just one more year -- even with Pettersson -- Montrealwill be a true contenderfor 5 years.

A lot of younger players still need to mature for that to happen.

At first, even with Mcdavid, Draisaitl and RNH -- better than Pettersson, Suzuki and Dach in terms offensive production -- Edmonton was just a bubble team and not guaranteed to make the playoffs, much less to go far in the playoffs as a true contender.

Montréalais npotone player away from winning a Cup, or coming close winning a Cup that soon, even if all their better, younger players exceed their projected ceilings.

Simply put, projected talent needs to develop before having a tangible impact on the ice.

Montreal won't have Edmonton's first line, but it will have a better bottom-nine, a vastly better d-corps, and might have a better goalie.

The combination of farm system + youth corps is quite deep in nets, on defense, and for middle six forwards, and it should look very, very good in about two years time. What the team is missing is a very high quality impact forward, Petersson or Keller would fit the bill.

The division is also a issue ... for now. Soon, Tampa, Toronto, Boston, and Florida will be fading. I expect that Buffalo will be the only true competition. That said, it will be a true competitor.

 

[ReHabs]

Honestly, it would take a miracle for any of them to land Pettersson. Both teams are tight on cap and they do not have a lot of trading chips to be in the game. Boston has zero prospects and Rangers are so tight with cap they will not be able to keep their RFAs (Kakko, Lafreniere, Miller). And all their big contracts have NMC clause.

Boston and New York are both organizations that somehow can manage to acquire the players they target. Prices aren’t too high for them.

 

[DAChampion]

The Habs have no 1C prospect, no 1D or 1D prospect, no 1G or 1G prospect.

Who’s to say they’ll be a contender at any time? A lot has to go right for the Habs to contend for the Stanley Cup. So far this core hasn’t gotten out of the basement.

Acquiring EPettersson will be to establish the core. Further moves are needed to ensure success beyond that.

Anyway -/ this is just speculative. Having some fun. The price to acquire a star player will be too high for the Habs.

The Habs have several 1D prospects and 1G prospects. Guhle and Reinbacher have legitimate potential to be an outstanding 1st pairing.

Reasonable package to acquire Petersson:

Habs 2024 1st, will be a 5th overall or so.
Calgary 2025 1st, good odds of being a lottery pick.
Justin Barron or Lane Hutson, young and cheap potential #3 D.
Filip Mesar or Sean Farrell or Riley Kidney or Owen Beck or Alex Newhook as potential middle six player.
Christian Dvorak as placeholder C and for cap purposes.

Fantastic package for any rebuilding team.

 

[DAChampion]

A year from now, some other suitor may have traded for him.

Right, but there's an issue. The Havs gave some redundancy in their defense farm system between Mailloux, Barron, Hutson, and others. But both Hughes and other GMs might have a much better assessment of who they are in 9 months.

 

[Scriptor]

Montreal won't have Edmonton's first line, but it will have a better bottom-nine, a vastly better d-corps, and might have a better goalie.

The combination of farm system + youth corps is quite deep in nets, on defense, and for middle six forwards, and it should look very, very good in about two years time. What the team is missing is a very high quality impact forward, Petersson or Keller would fit the bill.

The division is also a issue ... for now. Soon, Tampa, Toronto, Boston, and Florida will be fading. I expect that Buffalo will be the only true competition. That said, it will be a true competitor.

The team would still need to mature and that's a few years, at least. My point is that people conflate eventual potential -- as soon as the kid makes the NHL lineup -- with gradually better play as the young players develop.

It still takes time. Pettersson is already developed, but the rest of the team around him won't be assign as he come-on board.

Even Caufield and Suzuki need to continue progressing. Reinbacher, Hutson, Mailloux, Guhle, Xhekaj, Beck, Roy, Heineman, RHP, etc., are still just fledglings...

With Pettersson, weight not make the playoffs in the first, second or, even, third year!?

The strength of our division and conference, at the onset, will play a big part in that. In three years, PIT, WAS, BOS and other prior powerhouses will be in decline, but other improving teams who undertook their own rebuilds earlier than us might be replacement competition that won't be that easy to overcome.

The Habs have several 1D prospects and 1G prospects. Guhle and Reinbacher have legitimate potential to be an outstanding 1st pairing.

Reasonable package to acquire Petersson:

Habs 2024 1st, will be a 5th overall or so.
Calgary 2025 1st, good odds of being a lottery pick.
Justin Barron or Lane Hutson, young and cheap potential #3 D.
Filip Mesar or Sean Farrell or Riley Kidney or Owen Beck or Alex Newhook as potential middle six player.
Christian Dvorak as placeholder C and for cap purposes.

Fantastic package for any rebuilding team.

POTENTIAL, not immediate impact at that level, though.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

The Habs have no 1C prospect, no 1D or 1D prospect, no 1G or 1G prospect.

Who’s to say they’ll be a contender at any time? A lot has to go right for the Habs to contend for the Stanley Cup. So far this core hasn’t gotten out of the basement.

Acquiring EPettersson will be to establish the core. Further moves are needed to ensure success beyond that.

Anyway -/ this is just speculative. Having some fun. The price to acquire a star player will be too high for the Habs.

Habs didnt take Reinbacher 5th overall for him to be a #3/4

 

[Takeru]

Habs need the big bobber down the middle. That 100 point center. All Cup teams have them. Nathan MacKinnon, Jack Eichel, Stamkos. Going to cost an arm and leg to trade for one now. Why I was such an advocate last season on weaken the team where it was such a good draft for star centers.

With the lottery system though, I don't think gutting the team is the way to go. CHI lucking out on Bedard messed people's perception on how incredibly lucky that was. If they got passed by a team or two in the lottery, gutting your team to end up with Smith or the likes doesn't scream genius.

Sure gonna cost some to get that top center but those guys do become available periodically, contrary to Bergevin's infamous take. I believe we're maneuvering to be in a position to have the best mix of assets when the time comes so that we can make the best offer AND make up in house for the depth lost in trade.

 

[ReHabs]

Habs didnt take Reinbacher 5th overall for him to be a #3/4

And I quote, they drafted him to be a “D-2”

No one should expect or feel entitled to a Cale Makar, Victor Hedman, Roman Josi, or even Alex Pietrangelo.

 

[ReHabs]

The Habs have several 1D prospects and 1G prospects. Guhle and Reinbacher have legitimate potential to be an outstanding 1st pairing.

It doesn’t appear like either of those two are considered by anyone inside or outside the organization to be bluechip prospects. I don’t think it’s fair to place such expectations on them either.

I’m very high on Guhle and think Reinbacher is as good of a prospect as could be expected at 5OA in the 2023 draft but they’re not 1D prospects or on that trajectory. Maybe they’ll surprise and surpass their draft rank — it can happen.

But the Habs don’t have the luxury of having bluechip prospects other rebuilding teams picked up, I mean prospects like Bedard or Dahlin. It is what it is, we don’t need to litigate it — my comments are in response to the notion that the Habs will be Cup Contenders for five years. I don’t think that’s something I agree with, not at this time anyway.

We have to acquire Petterssons and such when they’re available in order to push our team to that level. Bergevin never did. Hughes seems to be into it, let’s see.

 

[ML16]

The Habs have no 1C prospect, no 1D or 1D prospect, no 1G or 1G prospect.

Who’s to say they’ll be a contender at any time? A lot has to go right for the Habs to contend for the Stanley Cup. So far this core hasn’t gotten out of the basement.

Acquiring EPettersson will be to establish the core. Further moves are needed to ensure success beyond that.

Anyway -/ this is just speculative. Having some fun. The price to acquire a star player will be too high for the Habs.

I wouldn’t say the Habs don’t have D1 prospects; both Guhle and Reinbacher have such ceiling - and they could either become a legitimate first pairing or, more likely, each could lead a pairing on a strong top-4 before long.

I concur however that G1 remains an unknown; lots of candidates within the organisation, but no guarantee whatsoever the answer won’t have to be found elsewhere.

As for the missing C1, acquiring Petersson would solve that issue. If a window opens in that regard, needless to say there would be no point in waiting to fill the other needs; there is not good or bad timing to acquire talent!

 

[Scriptor]

The Habs have several 1D prospects and 1G prospects. Guhle and Reinbacher have legitimate potential to be an outstanding 1st pairing.

Reasonable package to acquire Petersson:

Habs 2024 1st, will be a 5th overall or so.
Calgary 2025 1st, good odds of being a lottery pick.
Justin Barron or Lane Hutson, young and cheap potential #3 D.
Filip Mesar or Sean Farrell or Riley Kidney or Owen Beck or Alex Newhook as potential middle six player.
Christian Dvorak as placeholder C and for cap purposes.

Fantastic package for any rebuilding team.

Less than convinced that has pick will be a top-5, but, since it will be a lottery pick, with the tabs missing the playoffs, for sure, there is always chance. Not so obviously so, though.

Let's see how the new coach works out in CAL before assuming they are definitely imploding as a team. Not certain at allow will be talking about a lottery pick either.

Barron, Mesar, Farrell and Kidney are prospects that all teams have. Only, in Montreal,we build them up to be special, when they aren't.

Hutson has huge upside, but can also fall short of having a similar impact, at the NHL level, to what we saw in the NCAA. However, that huge upside still gives him great value.

Beck has what it takes to become a strong component of a rebuilding team and Newhook has remaining upside togo with his experience at the NHL level, being only 22, still.

Christian Dvorak is a throw-in and doesn't move the needle for this trade, individually.

Fantastic package?

Interesting, maybe? I wouldn't say fantastic, unless all your assumptions came true.

But, would Hughes really give up a top-5 pick in deep top-10 draft for 2024, a lottery pick in 2025, Hutson and Beck for Pettersson?

Hard to say...

 

[Andy]

Habs need the big bobber down the middle. That 100 point center. All Cup teams have them. Nathan MacKinnon, Jack Eichel, Stamkos. Going to cost an arm and leg to trade for one now. Why I was such an advocate last season on weaken the team where it was such a good draft for star centers.

Tanking for the 1OA is still gamble given you are not guaranteed to get a 100 point player

17 forwards taken since 2000.

8 players hit 100 points (47%). If you want to count Kovalchuk and Hughes, then 58% have hit or almost hit 100 points.

Of the 17 forwards taken 1st overall, only 5 have cups (29%). All five have hit 100 points.

So basically, tanking still isn't a sure fire way to get to the promiseland. It's the best way, but you are still not guaranteed and you still need a lot of luck.


[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Player[/TD]
[TD]100 Point Season[/TD]
[TD]Cup[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Jack Hughes[/TD]
[TD]Almost[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ilya Kovalchuk[/TD]
[TD]Almost[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Juraj Slafkovsky[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Alexis Lafreniere[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Nico Hischier[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Nail Yakupov[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Taylor Hall[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]John Tavares[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rick Nash[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Auston Matthews[/TD]
[TD]Yes[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Connor McDavid[/TD]
[TD]Yes[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Nathan MacKinnon[/TD]
[TD]Yes[/TD]
[TD]Yes[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ryan Nugent-Hopkins[/TD]
[TD]Yes[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Steven Stamkos[/TD]
[TD]Yes[/TD]
[TD]Yes[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Patrick Kane[/TD]
[TD]Yes[/TD]
[TD]Yes[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sidney Crosby[/TD]
[TD]Yes[/TD]
[TD]Yes[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Alex Ovechkin[/TD]
[TD]Yes[/TD]
[TD]Yes[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[DAChampion]

But, would Hughes really give up a top-5 pick in deep top-10 draft for 2024, a lottery pick in 2025, Hutson and Beck for Pettersson?

Hard to say...

Why not?

Also I wrote down 5th overall. Given lottery and injury luck, that pick can be anywhere between 1 and 12, and cab thus entail a considerably change in the calculus.

POTENTIAL, not immediate impact at that level, though.

All players only have potential because the future is never certain. Petersson for example could decline early due to injuries. He might not live up to an 8 year x 10.25 million dollar contract.

 

[Scriptor]

Why not?

Also I wrote down 5th overall. Given lottery and injury luck, that pick can be anywhere between 1 and 12, and cab thus entail a considerably change in the calculus.



All players only have potential because the future is never certain. Petersson for example could decline early due to injuries. He might not live up to an 8 year x 10.25 million dollar contract.

You assume many favourable things to prop up your offer as Fantastic.

It's enough to say that it would be worth considering and not present it as a slam dunk deal is all I am saying.

It is not FANTASTIC, but definitely not some deal without any merit for Vancouver either.

 

[Lockin17]

Petterson will F?%$ up our cap space, no thx.
Rather draft a top 5 in 2024

Like Gordon said you have to draft these guys,
If we are lucky we might put our hands on Catton or Demidov or Helenius

Keep the paste !!

 

[DAChampion]

You assume many favourable things to prop up your offer as Fantastic.

It's enough to say that it would be worth considering and not present it as a slam dunk deal is all I am saying.

It is not FANTASTIC, but definitely not some deal without any merit for Vancouver either.

There's no precedent for a trade package of Suzuki, Slafkovsky, Reinbacher, and a 1st.

Trade proposals have to be compared to historically relevant trades.

 

[Scriptor]

There's no precedent for a trade package of Suzuki, Slafkovsky, Reinbacher, and a 1st.

Trade proposals have to be compared to historically relevant trades.

This is a discussion not an argument for a win. I'm not suggesting your other extreme.

I'm just saying that your assumption that it's a 5th OA pick and lottery pick skews the proposal's value when nothing is certain regarding that.

State it as it is:

Montreal's 1st round pick in 2024, unprotected (raises value, but definitive as happening)
CAL's 2025 1st round pick(also unprotected)

You could also make it the betterofMontrealor Calgary's 1stround pick in 2025, unless one or both are top-5. Then, it would become the lesser of the two.

Montreal also has multiple 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks, already, in 2025, so you could sacrifice a 2nd rounder as well in that draft, or a 3rd and a 4th rounder.

 

[DAChampion]

Montreal also has multiple 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks, already, in 2025, so you could sacrifice a 2nd rounder as well in that draft, or a 3rd and a 4th rounder.

I don't even bother including that.

 

[RationalExpectations]

The Habs have no 1C prospect, no 1D or 1D prospect, no 1G or 1G prospect.

Who’s to say they’ll be a contender at any time? A lot has to go right for the Habs to contend for the Stanley Cup. So far this core hasn’t gotten out of the basement.

Acquiring EPettersson will be to establish the core. Further moves are needed to ensure success beyond that.

Anyway -/ this is just speculative. Having some fun. The price to acquire a star player will be too high for the Habs.

To be fair Dach was drafted to be a 1C let's see if he manages to reach his potential. Also STL managed to win a SC without star 1C. There is no top G in the system true, but Reinbacher has been drafted to be a 1D...

 

[Lockin17]

would you guys like having Seth Jones ?

I mean pretty good RHD

CHI : Jones at 8mil (1.5mil retained)
for
MTL : Dvorak + Barron + 2nd pick 2025