HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #84: Off-Season edition

[Miller Time]

I somehow doubt that. Dvorak is much more durable than Monahan, as much as I favor signing the latter.

if they were going all-in next year, i'd get your point... but i don't think Hughes will be making roster decisions this summer with a the performance of the roster in the 23-24 season as the top priority.

With Dach looking like a lock to stay at C, the question is what to do with the 3C spot... We know that Hughes isn't inclined to completely strip the roster of veteran depth/suppport while bringing young players along, but moving Dvorak becomes easier if you re-sign Monahan. His durability question is backstopped by Evans/Beck & perhaps a depth veteran signing like a Tierney or similar type player.

 

[Miller Time]

I all depends on what you are getting in return, if the return isn’t go enough I don’t see any issue keeping 1 more year, Evans coming back from a knee injury we don’t know what that is going to be like, Beck probably isn’t ready or it might be better for development to be getting tons of ice time in the OHL rather than 4th line / scratch in the NHL.

agreed... I don't see him backing off much from the value he has set for Dvo, and clearly there is no need to move him just because.

I do think that there will be some teams interested in Dvorak as he does fit the profile of an affordable middle-6 C that could be of use to a contender with cap limitations or a cost-controlled/rebuilding roster.

if he doesn't get the return he wants, no need to move him even with re-signing Monahan, but i bet that post the initial UFA rush, there will be a team or 2 that missed out on their first target who will view Dvo as a solid alternative solution. there aren't really many good top-9C options hitting the open market, even less so those that have Dvo's ability to at least be a decent complimentary top-6 player offensively.

 

[BaseballCoach]

if they were going all-in next year, i'd get your point... but i don't think Hughes will be making roster decisions this summer with a the performance of the roster in the 23-24 season as the top priority.

With Dach looking like a lock to stay at C, the question is what to do with the 3C spot... We know that Hughes isn't inclined to completely strip the roster of veteran depth/suppport while bringing young players along, but moving Dvorak becomes easier if you re-sign Monahan. His durability question is backstopped by Evans/Beck & perhaps a depth veteran signing like a Tierney or similar type player.

Beck is still OHL next season.

Dvorak should be moved either to help get a core strong player, or for a first rounder. Otherwise wait.

We should consider trading any non-ELC player who is not a core strong player to get one or more.

That means Dvorak, Evans, Edmundson, Savard, Harris, Kovacevic, RHP, Pezzetta, Pitlick, Allen, Monty, even Gurianov and Anderson if the price is right. And of course Hoffman, Armia and Gallagher for any return at all if possible.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

We have numbers, we don't have quality depth. Literally all players you named outside RHP have a combined 1 NHL game. So Habs have a solid prospect pool. Yes. NHL depth, not even close.

Last time Habs hit on several prospects at the same time where with Price, Patches, PK etc. I wouldn't count on it happening again. And even if it does, it doesn't mean they have depth now. They have depth "potential" which, along with a $1 will get you a cup of coffee.


Habs have no quality NHL depth, what-so-ever. If you beleive Habs have Cup contending depth, but are just missing a couple of elite level talent, I have a bridge to sell you to Edmonton and Toronto.

If you want to know what actual depth looks like, look at Boston, Carolina, Rangers, Avs,Tampa etc etc etc, They have NHL depth and can roll 4 lines. Habs have a top line, and a bunch of bottom 6 N/AHLer's and not much better on D.

The only thing I'm laughing at is people who think the Habs have depth and than cry when they're a bottom team in the NHL and can't figure out why.

Not even close to what I said

Our top line is a 2nd line on a true contender, and we have legit 3rd and 4th lines

We don’t have an elite 1st line, and therefore all we have is depth right now

 

[Colezuki]

Not even close to what I said

Our top line is a 2nd line on a true contender, and we have legit 3rd and 4th lines

We don’t have an elite 1st line, and therefore all we have is depth right now

I mean I feel components of it are a 2nd line (Suzuki/Dach/Anderson depending on how you view each player) but there are very few teams that have a 40 goal scorer like caufield on there 2nd line.

 

[Miller Time]

Beck is still OHL next season.

your crystal ball aside (shoot me the upcoming lotto numbers while you're at it), it's obvious that none of us know which prospects will earn a spot out of camp and which ones will go back to juniors or to the AHL...

Beck is one of the most NHL ready prospects we have imo, and the most likely to be able to make the opening day roster because of his ability to play a reliable depth role. If/wether he does, remains to be seen.

Given his mo thus far, i bet the kid has an excellent summer of development and shows up to camp that much closer to being NHL-ready than he was last fall, where he almost made the case to jump to the pro's in his D1 year.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Not even close to what I said

Our top line is a 2nd line on a true contender, and we have legit 3rd and 4th lines

We don’t have an elite 1st line, and therefore all we have is depth right now

I agree that our top line is a second line, but not that we have 3rd and 4th line depth. Armia, Belzile, Pezzetta, Ylonen, Pitlick, Tierney etc. are not solid bottom 6 players on any contending team. Most aren't even everyday NHLers. Would any of these players be on a contending teams roster? LOL not a chance.

Then add Drouin, Hoffman, Gally etc. and you have inbetween players who aren't good enough to be top 6 and don't play the role of bottom 6. I'm sure most will be happy when they're off the team once and for all.

They have numbers, that's not depth.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

I agree that our top line is a second line, but not that we have 3rd and 4th line depth. Armia, Belzile, Pezzetta, Ylonen, Pitlick, Tierney etc. are not solid bottom 6 players on any contending team. Most aren't even everyday NHLers.

Then add Drouin, Hoffman, Gally etc. and you have inbetween players who aren't good enough to be top 6 and don't play the role of bottom 6. I'm sure most will be happy when they're off the team once and for all.

They have numbers, that's not depth.

Yeah you’re right actually
We have nothing, I take it back

 

[BaseballCoach]

your crystal ball aside (shoot me the upcoming lotto numbers while you're at it), it's obvious that none of us know which prospects will earn a spot out of camp and which ones will go back to juniors or to the AHL...

Beck is one of the most NHL ready prospects we have imo, and the most likely to be able to make the opening day roster because of his ability to play a reliable depth role. If/wether he does, remains to be seen.

Given his mo thus far, i bet the kid has an excellent summer of development and shows up to camp that much closer to being NHL-ready than he was last fall, where he almost made the case to jump to the pro's in his D1 year.

Beck was not close to NHL ready, and still isn't. Your 3C has to provide SOME offence, and Owen is currently 50th or so in the OHL. Barring a huge leap over the summer, he will need another year. At least do not count on him being ready, in making lineups.

 

[Scriptor]

apparently its Dvorsky from the tweet i saw

I could live with an exploitation 3rd line of Slafkovsky - Dvorsky - Mesar down the line. Why not, if you have a top-6 of Caufield - Suzuki - Roy and Farrell - Dubois - Dach.

If Gurianov could find chemistry with Caufield and Suzuki, it would be even better, especially with a temporary 4th line mad up of: Farrell - Beck - Heineman

Roy - Dubois - Dach
Caufield - Suzuki - Gurianov
Slafkovsky - Dvorsky - Mesar
Farrell - Beck - Heineman

 

[Rapala]

I mean I feel components of it are a 2nd line (Suzuki/Dach/Anderson depending on how you view each player) but there are very few teams that have a 40 goal scorer like caufield on there 2nd line.

Pasternak who plays a ton with Kejci and maybe Nylander if he get his 40 but he's seen a fair share of the first line this season.

 

[Nedved]

we need a number 1 dman that can play 25 minutes a night, and 30 minutes in the playoffs.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Anyone else have a feeling Hughes is going to deal Florida's 1st instead of pick with it?

He's made it clear he'll make moves that accelerate the rebuild, so that makes me think he'd prefer to use that pick for an established young player instead of taking a guy that's 2/3 years away from making the NHL.

I think it depends who he can get with that pick. If he Can adress Center or RHD definitely.

 

[Colezuki]

Pasternak who plays a ton with Kejci and maybe Nylander if he get his 40 but he's seen a fair share of the first line this season.

Yeah but Pasta also plays on the perfection line when there down and the Bruins are spreading it around, he still gets 1st pp wave time. What I mean is there are very very few teams where you'd consider a 40 goal scorer a true 2nd liner.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Yeah you’re right actually
We have nothing, I take it back

We have 3 quality players: Suzuki, Caufield and Matheson.

We have 2 who might be quality real soon: Dach and Guhle.

We have Anderson and Gurianov who might be decent 3rd liners, or maybe just one. If Anderson, his affordability may be an issue if/when we load up better.

RHP is possibly good for a 12th-14th F on a contender. Xhekaj is probably good for a depth D (5th-6th), Savard too, at least for now though he is aging. Monty might be a decent backup, needs to maintain consistency next year.

That's it to date.

Slafkovsky, Farrell, Hutson, Mailloux, Barron, Beck, Dobes, Heineman, Roy, Kidney, Engstrom, Kapanen, Mesar, Guindon, Rohrer - who knows, but have high hopes for Farrell and Slaf as an NHL 3rd liner or better. The rest have a lot to improve just to get to the NHL.

I could live with an exploitation 3rd line of Slafkovsky - Dvorsky - Mesar down the line. Why not, if you have a top-6 of Caufield - Suzuki - Roy and Farrell - Dubois - Dach.

If Gurianov could find chemistry with Caufield and Suzuki, it would be even better, especially with a temporary 4th line mad up of: Farrell - Beck - Heineman

Roy - Dubois - Dach
Caufield - Suzuki - Gurianov
Slafkovsky - Dvorsky - Mesar
Farrell - Beck - Heineman

Mesar would have to show he can score points better than Ylonen or Mysak first.

 

[Habby4Life]

I could live with an exploitation 3rd line of Slafkovsky - Dvorsky - Mesar down the line. Why not, if you have a top-6 of Caufield - Suzuki - Roy and Farrell - Dubois - Dach.

If Gurianov could find chemistry with Caufield and Suzuki, it would be even better, especially with a temporary 4th line mad up of: Farrell - Beck - Heineman

Roy - Dubois - Dach
Caufield - Suzuki - Gurianov
Slafkovsky - Dvorsky - Mesar
Farrell - Beck - Heineman

They are not going to start the year with the bottom six being all rookies. Not a chance.

 

[Miller Time]

Beck was not close to NHL ready, and still isn't. Your 3C has to provide SOME offence, and Owen is currently 50th or so in the OHL. Barring a huge leap over the summer, he will need another year. At least do not count on him being ready, in making lineups.

What about your 4thC...

My suggestion was that if Monahan is brought back, moving Dvo is easier because we'd be looking at

Suzuki - Dach - Monahan - Evans/Beck.

That's more than reasonable C depth for a team in our situation.

Add a depth veteran C to the mix in the fall if they don't see enough out of Beck at rookie camp/training camp, or keep the runway open if he forces the issue.

I don't think that's at all unreasonable or overly optimistic.

 

[417]

Monahan is now eligible for a heavy bonus laden contact due to his injury season & career GP.

Best of all if traded at next deadline, the acquiring team wouldn’t be responsible for bonus payout

Pass...we've squeezed all of the juice out of that lemon.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

We have numbers, we don't have quality depth. Literally all players you named outside RHP have a combined 1 NHL game. So Habs have a solid prospect pool. Yes. NHL depth, not even close.

Last time Habs hit on several prospects at the same time where with Price, Patches, PK etc. I wouldn't count on it happening again. And even if it does, it doesn't mean they have depth now. They have depth "potential" which, along with a $1 will get you a cup of coffee.


Habs have no quality NHL depth, what-so-ever. If you beleive Habs have Cup contending depth, but are just missing a couple of elite level talent, I have a bridge to sell you to Edmonton and Toronto.

If you want to know what actual depth looks like, look at Boston, Carolina, Rangers, Avs,Tampa etc etc etc, They have NHL depth and can roll 4 lines. Habs have a top line, and a bunch of bottom 6 N/AHLer's and not much better on D.

The only thing I'm laughing at is people who think the Habs have depth and than cry when they're a bottom team in the NHL and can't figure out why.

He said prospect depth and at least 3 of the forward prospects should be valuable pieces. Add the 1st 2 picks in the 2023 draft, Suzuki, Caufield, Dach and Slafkovsky and you have 9 forwards. Add Dubois or A FA or 2 and they have depth. Don't care about NHL depth currently as Habs are 2-3 years from contention.

 

[Milhouse40]

Yeah but Pasta also plays on the perfection line when there down and the Bruins are spreading it around, he still gets 1st pp wave time. What I mean is there are very very few teams where you'd consider a 40 goal scorer a true 2nd liner.

Well, I know we often put line number based on center......but in this case, whatever line Pastrnak is on, it's consider the 1st line by their opponent.

 

[Scriptor]

Don't think it's much a deal. 8 million x 8 years. Then give up a first pick plus high end prospect. PLD has to play third line minutes. Or the wing. Or push either Suzuki or Dach back. I would pump the brakes on this

Seriously? What trouble would Dubois have pushing Dach down the depth chart at C? In fact, it's much likelier to see Dach playing wing since we know there is chemistry between Caufield, Suzuki and he.

Slafkovsky - Dubois - Anderson has the makings of a heavy, quick, talented line, plus, Dubois and Anderson already had chemistry in CLB.

IMO, that top-6 is already quite interesting.

The 1st round pick given up for Dubois, in all likelihood, won't ever become as good as Dubois.

Dubois is not 28, 29 or 30 and fits right in as part of the YOUNG core for this team.

All depends who the presumed high end prospect is?

If it's Beck, perhaps Mesar can play as an offensive exploitation 3rd line C as well.

Dubois is a solid building block, IMO, not the keystone that completes the wall being built, but he is young enough to be a cornerstone of that foundation.

There is no reason to dismiss his acquisition off-handedly as some are doing.

Obviously, there are limits to what should and will be paid to acquire Dubois via trade. He mustn't become a lateral move where the team gives away the equivalent just to have him.

I.e., Suzuki for Dubois makes no sense. The team would not be improving through that lateral move.

Today, Dach for Dubois makes no sense from MON's POV. At the start of the season, for Hab fans, it made no sense from WIN's POV.

Funny how things change quickly with a fickle fan base who, somehow, claims to be so learned about everything hockey...

Malarkey.

Wasn't there a D that might have been available as a RHD project? (Merkely, actually - smart, decent pick-up by COL)

 

[BaseballCoach]

What about your 4thC...

My suggestion was that if Monahan is brought back, moving Dvo is easier because we'd be looking at

Suzuki - Dach - Monahan - Evans/Beck.

That's more than reasonable C depth for a team in our situation.

Add a depth veteran C to the mix in the fall if they don't see enough out of Beck at rookie camp/training camp, or keep the runway open if he forces the issue.

I don't think that's at all unreasonable or overly optimistic.

Sure we can move Dvorak, but I still don't want to do it with so much time left unless it is for a first, or to help get a quality player

 

[Scriptor]

Harris is expandable to me.
LHD is stacked for years with the Habs

Matheson
Ghule
Wifi
Hutson
Trudeau
Engtrsom

i would try to get a late first 2023 for Harris. (Quentin Musty)
A 2nd 2023 for Eddy (Mathieu Cataford)

For the last time, please:

EXPANDABLE = WILL GROW IN SIZE

EXPENDABLE = CAN DO WITHOUT

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

Look at true contending teams and tell me if the Habs have depth...

prospects wise we have a bunch but none of them have elite potentiel aside from Hutson

 

[Scriptor]

Monahan is now eligible for a heavy bonus laden contact due to his injury season & career GP.

Best of all if traded at next deadline, the acquiring team wouldn’t be responsible for bonus payout

"...the acquiring team wouldn’t be responsible for bonus payout"

Why not? Don't see how that mechanism works since it is part of the contract taken on by the team acquiring Monahan at the deadline and the bonus money can either be paid at season's end or deferred to the following year, at the team's discretion?

Also, the bonus only gets determined based on how many milestones are reached at the end of the season. A team acquiring Monahan at the deadline could influence how much Cap Montreal ended up paying just by how they decide to use Monahan.

Doesn't sound Copacetic.

After the trade deadline, what would MON have to do with ANY of the contracts's stipulations, other than, perhaps, if it holds back salary/Cap?

The only bonus payout that would belong to MON, if it traded the player at the deadline would be signing bonuses, like those with Price, but that would only affect real money payouts and not the Cap hit.

What am I missing?