HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #84: Off-Season edition

[Sterling Archer]

we have depth we need elite talent

Look at true contending teams and tell me if the Habs have depth...

 

[Captain Mountain]

Anyone else have a feeling Hughes is going to deal Florida's 1st instead of pick with it?

He's made it clear he'll make moves that accelerate the rebuild, so that makes me think he'd prefer to use that pick for an established young player instead of taking a guy that's 2/3 years away from making the NHL.

Has he? Based on what exactly? Its clear that he doesn't want to do a scorched earth rebuild, or he wouldn't have acquired Dach and probably would have shopped Suzuki. But he's also been using picks (and on players that will take time to develip) and acquiring high future picks.

That implies that his plan is a lot more flexible than a scorched earth or accelerated rebuild.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Look at true contending teams and tell me if the Habs have depth...

That depth (Roy, Mesar, Farrell, Beck, Kidney, Heineman, etc.) isn't in the nhl yet or just started their nhl career (RHP, Ylonen)

 

[Lockin17]

Look at true contending teams and tell me if the Habs have depth...

we have a shit load of procpect depth
Fowards :
Beck - Roy - Kidney - Heinemen - Mesar - Farrell - Simoneau - RHP are all great depth prospect not depth actual NHler player .

At least 4 of these guys will be NHLer depth within 2 years .
So yeah we need Elite not depth prospect.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Look at true contending teams and tell me if the Habs have depth...

All we have is depth, that’s the problem lmao

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

Too logical. It is more important to punish Marty Lapointe, Daniel Briere and David Perron by making Dubois grovel.

I cannot turn off my left hemisphere at will.

 

[Rapala]

Too logical. It is more important to punish Marty Lapointe, Daniel Briere and David Perron by making Dubois grovel.

Kent Hughes is a patient man and if Dubois wants to come here he will but on Hughes' terms period. No need to pay any assets for a player that will become UFA after next season. The person who has to sign on the dotted line is PLD. Winnipeg can't force him to do it nor can any team acquiring his rights.

 

[Runner77]

Monahan is now eligible for a heavy bonus laden contact due to his injury season & career GP.

Best of all if traded at next deadline, the acquiring team wouldn’t be responsible for bonus payout

What did that tweet say?

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

Kent Hughes is a patient man and if Dubois wants to come here he will but on Hughes' terms period. No need to pay any assets for a player that will become UFA after next season. The person who has to sign on the dotted line is PLD. Winnipeg can't force him to do it nor can any team acquiring his rights.

There are 30 other teams, many of which the Jets could trade him to, and PLD would sign. He may say that he wants to come to Montreal, to drive a wedge between himself and Winnipeg, but I don't for one second believe that he would refuse a trade to Colorado, Carolina, Tampa, Sunrise FL, Los Angeles, and so on, if they meet his salary demands and the Jets' trade requirements. This isn't a binary event as portrayed in your post: many of these are nice places to live with very competitive teams. Some of them, like Colorado and Carolina, are a precise fit for what he brings: a 2C with skill, size and grit.

 

[morhilane]

What did that tweet say?

Short version: Since Monahan is likely going to miss 100 days in the season (more than 90 days now) and played more than 400 NHL games, his next contract can be filled with performance bonus (which are usually limited to ELC and 35+ contracts). It give an example of a 2m base salary contract + 2m in performance bonus based on game played and production

 

[BaseballCoach]

Kent Hughes is a patient man and if Dubois wants to come here he will but on Hughes' terms period. No need to pay any assets for a player that will become UFA after next season. The person who has to sign on the dotted line is PLD. Winnipeg can't force him to do it nor can any team acquiring his rights.

Simply not true. Are you being influenced by the reports that Dubois very much wants to play here?

Monahan is now eligible for a heavy bonus laden contact due to his injury season & career GP.

Best of all if traded at next deadline, the acquiring team wouldn’t be responsible for bonus payout

My understanding is that the acquiring team will not be responsible for the bonuses achieved before the trade.

Also, this is something I've known all along, but it is not a competitive advantage for the Habs. Any team can offer Sean a bonus-laden contract. I read that he might prefer signing here only because he may get more opportunity and ice time than elsewhere, but I think there may be other teams wiling to give him 16 minutes per game if healthy.

So does Monahan appreciate the Habs enough to sign here for a year over other destinations?

 

[Miller Time]

Short version: Since Monahan is likely going to miss 100 days in the season (more than 90 days now) and played more than 400 NHL games, his next contract can be filled with performance bonus (which are usually limited to ELC and 35+ contracts). It give an example of a 2m base salary contract + 2m in performance bonus based on game played and production

this added piece makes it look like a slam dunk that habs with re-sign him... suspect both sides will be motivated to make that happen.

If we do, with Suzuki/Dach/Evans/Beck, you'd think that would cement Dvorak being shipped out.

 

[Runner77]

Short version: Since Monahan is likely going to miss 100 days in the season (more than 90 days now) and played more than 400 NHL games, his next contract can be filled with performance bonus (which are usually limited to ELC and 35+ contracts). It give an example of a 2m base salary contract + 2m in performance bonus based on game played and production

Thanks. That’s an interesting idea. If Monahan were to insist on playing while wearing an orthopaedic boot, then he’d suffer direct consequences.

I can’t imagine any training/ medical staff would have greenlighted him to play if he needed a boot. I have to assume the player took that decision but don’t know for a fact.

 

[calder candidate]

we have depth we need elite talent

If you aren’t moving in the top 4, I think you can’t be sure you are landing or passing on elite talent, team will have various player from 5-12, and even more variations from 13-31 you probably aren’t landing your number 6 at 12 but maybe you are landing your 8or 9, adding a other pick get you a other shot at a player that might be in the same tier, you could end up drafting 3 guy in you top 18
Usually I rather have my destiny in my own hand but the draft still has bit of a randomness so 3 shots might be better than 2, if all players are pretty close.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

If we do, with Suzuki/Dach/Evans/Beck, you'd think that would cement Dvorak being shipped out.

I somehow doubt that. Dvorak is much more durable than Monahan, as much as I favor signing the latter.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Kent Hughes is a patient man and if Dubois wants to come here he will but on Hughes' terms period. No need to pay any assets for a player that will become UFA after next season. The person who has to sign on the dotted line is PLD. Winnipeg can't force him to do it nor can any team acquiring his rights.

Hughes has clearly demonstrated he'll make trades for young NHLers if he feels the price is right.

There are 30 other teams, many of which the Jets could trade him to, and PLD would sign. He may say that he wants to come to Montreal, to drive a wedge between himself and Winnipeg, but I don't for one second believe that he would refuse a trade to Colorado, Carolina, Tampa, Sunrise FL, Los Angeles, and so on, if they meet his salary demands and the Jets' trade requirements. This isn't a binary event as portrayed in your post: many of these are nice places to live with very competitive teams. Some of them, like Colorado and Carolina, are a precise fit for what he brings: a 2C with skill, size and grit.

Yeah, I expect Hughes to make a fresh offer in the offseason, but I doubt he's going to overpay. Montreal can offer more than teams like Colorado anyways. Carolina may be able to make as good an offer, but I'm skeptical they'd be willing to pay Dubois wants or that they'll offer enough if they weren't going to do it for Meier, who is a better fit for what they're trying to build.

 

[BergevinBurner]

Has he? Based on what exactly?

Based on his actions and what's he's said in press conferences and interviews.

Sure he likes bringing in picks, but he also tends to target already drafted prospects and young players pretty consistently such as Dach, Baron, Gurianov, Smilanic and Heineman.

 

[Rapala]

A combination of size, grit and scoring is still a need for the Habs. Plugging one hole among many remains a useful exercise, since after all this is a team sport (and much of our foreseen talent influx is height-challenged). If HuGo are serious about turning this around, they need to keep chipping away at every flaw, while remaining aware of their salary structure. If the team could get another competitive center who compares to Suzuki, at a comparable salary, without sacrificing core pieces (remains to be seen), why wouldn't it, especially with a promising pipeline for defensemen?

Far too much speculation before we even know where we stand at the draft. It may not occur to some people that Hughes may have already made his decision to give Kirby Dach a fair chance at that role. It's very possible he'd like to give him a full season before determining if we should look elsewhere.
It's not a stretch like some people seem to think it is.

 

[calder candidate]

this added piece makes it look like a slam dunk that habs with re-sign him... suspect both sides will be motivated to make that happen.

If we do, with Suzuki/Dach/Evans/Beck, you'd think that would cement Dvorak being shipped out.

I all depends on what you are getting in return, if the return isn’t go enough I don’t see any issue keeping 1 more year, Evans coming back from a knee injury we don’t know what that is going to be like, Beck probably isn’t ready or it might be better for development to be getting tons of ice time in the OHL rather than 4th line / scratch in the NHL.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

Hughes has clearly demonstrated he'll make trades for young NHLers if he feels the price is right.



Yeah, I expect Hughes to make a fresh offer in the offseason, but I doubt he's going to overpay. Montreal can offer more than teams like Colorado anyways. Carolina may be able to make as good an offer, but I'm skeptical they'd be willing to pay Dubois wants or that they'll offer enough if they weren't going to do it for Meier, who is a better fit for what they're trying to build.

If Carolina dangles Kotka++ and gets the Jets to bite, I don't think that the Canes would think twice (which are loaded at wing in relation to center, hence the relative lack of interest in Meier). In that way, PLD is also a precise fit for them (more so than Kotka anyway, his last game notwithstanding). In any event, I limited my post to just a few teams, but there probably 10-12 teams that could make a good case for his services, many of which might meet the Jets' price and could fit him under the cap with a little roster manipulation. It's simply not a binary event in the way PLD's agent would have us believe.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I somehow doubt that. Dvorak is much more durable than Monahan, as much as I favor signing the latter.

Dvorak should be moved if the return is either a quality player or a first rounder. Regardless of Sean's health.

Also, Beck will not be NHL ready next camp. I'm not even sure he makes it in 2024 at 20, like Suzuki managed to do on the 4th line to start.

 

[Rapala]

Simply not true. Are you being influenced by the reports that Dubois very much wants to play here?

What exactly do you think has been driving this discussion from day 1. I'm good with Kirby Dach at this point.

 

[BaseballCoach]

What exactly do you think has been driving this discussion from day 1. I'm good with Kirby Dach at this point.

Suzuki, Dubois, Dach and the 2023 first pick would be 4 play drivers for the first two lines. Fantastic. That's a solid core. Just need one more finisher after Caufield (Slaf maybe???) , and a healthy-Monahan level player for the 3C. Someone better than Dvo.

 

[Sterling Archer]

we have a shit load of procpect depth
Fowards :
Beck - Roy - Kidney - Heinemen - Mesar - Farrell - Simoneau - RHP are all great depth prospect not depth actual NHler player .

At least 4 of these guys will be NHLer depth within 2 years .
So yeah we need Elite not depth prospect.

We have numbers, we don't have quality depth. Literally all players you named outside RHP have a combined 1 NHL game. So Habs have a solid prospect pool. Yes. NHL depth, not even close.

Last time Habs hit on several prospects at the same time where with Price, Patches, PK etc. I wouldn't count on it happening again. And even if it does, it doesn't mean they have depth now. They have depth "potential" which, along with a $1 will get you a cup of coffee.

All we have is depth, that’s the problem lmao

Habs have no quality NHL depth, what-so-ever. If you beleive Habs have Cup contending depth, but are just missing a couple of elite level talent, I have a bridge to sell you to Edmonton and Toronto.

If you want to know what actual depth looks like, look at Boston, Carolina, Rangers, Avs,Tampa etc etc etc, They have NHL depth and can roll 4 lines. Habs have a top line, and a bunch of bottom 6 N/AHLer's and not much better on D.

The only thing I'm laughing at is people who think the Habs have depth and than cry when they're a bottom team in the NHL and can't figure out why.

 

[Captain Mountain]

If Carolina dangles Kotka++ and gets the Jets to bite, I don't think that the Canes would think twice. In that way, PLD is also a precise fit for them (more so than Kotka anyway, his last game notwithstanding). In any event, I limited my post to just a few teams, but there probably 10-12 teams that could make a good case for his services, many of which might meet the Jets' price and could fit him under the cap with a little roster manipulation. It's simply not a binary event in the way PLD's agent would have us believe.

It depends on what the ++ is, but my view of the Hurricanes is more that they generally don't like paying a lot in trades. I feel like they'd rather bring Staal back on a short term deal, use Necas at center more and go hunting for analytic darlings who are undervalued. They're definitely not going to move Nikishin and mostly likely aren't going to move Morrow. Montreal has them beat on the number of prospects in the next tier and have much better draft capital.

And the while the rumours that Dubois wants to be a Hab aren't something you can fully rely on, they definitely aren't nothing either. Teams pay attention to that, especially with a player that asked out of a team once already.