HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #84: Off-Season edition

[General Fanager]

You're using the narrative that the Tampa trades for Savard and Jeannot are typical. They are not typical but they do happen from time to time. One area you are overlooking is their cap hit at a time when Tampa didn't have much space. Circumstance matters. Dubois one year deal next year will be what? $6M - $7.5M range? Even at 50% retention, Tampa can't fit that in cause they are cap tight and will be so again next year. Most contenders are the ones we need to look at and most if not all of them will be cap tight.

I have my low and high end. And both are based on circumstance we may or may not know.

I don't buy for one bit that the Jets like the idea of trading Dubois at the 24 TDL. There are risks to that.

Teams trade big assets for UFAs every year. Why woulkdnt a team do that same thing in the summer instead of at the deadline.?

They get their player for the run next year and maybe they can convince him to stay

This is Nonsense? There is nothing you can say to support it. But you can try

Of course there is.,

Paying even 1 small assets for a guy who wants to be here is asinine.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Teams trade big assets for UFAs every year. Why woulkdnt a team do that same thing in the summer instead of at the deadline.?

They get their player for the run next year and maybe they can convince him to stay

Teams trade big assets yes but most times, they want the chance to also extend them. My offers are fair compared to both Trouba trade and Horvat trade.

Do you really think they can convince him to stay after one more season? Really?

 

[26Mats]

If you want to try to be more competitive next year I would target everyone but Monahan. He has play 25 games and we didn't even know what the Monahan 3.0 could be. A great caracter player, very good player when he doesn't have health issue, something he has for the past 4 years, but we can't simply "Count" on him.

We don't know if he would be able to play 82 games and if not if we can trade him at the deadline. Nothing against the player just a time to move on! Monahan at 100% is a no-brainer but with the body of a modern Frankenstein it's another story!

I didn't have a spot for him on my roster whatever if we tank or if we try to win next year because he would not be able to help us on both case for a reason not related to hockey but his past injury because I have my doubt this guy would play the next 100 games without missing one or maintain his level of play when is fully healthy!

Like we see this year, with Monahan we are another team and much more competitive but in signing him it's like knowing your team would have 2 versions : With Monahan, a bubble playoff team, and Without Monahan, a favourite lottery pick candidate, because he would be not able to play 82 games.

If you are the GM, it's the last thing you want because you don't build your team on ??? and hoping your core players didn't get injured and if you have others options, without being a better hockey player, they would fund someone else who is more "reliable".

Don't felt in love with your players, everyone like Monahan but from a hockey point it's not really a good hockey decision to keep him further at the price he would ask! If he is ready to take a one year discount to make his name again before signing a long term deal somewhere else it's a different story but if he ask 5 millions or multiple year deals I will run the faster I can ...

Even if Monahan were totally healthy at some point this summer, I would only add him as a wild card, like a 14th forward that may be useful I'd by some miracle he were able to stay healthy.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Of course there is.,

Paying even 1 small assets for a guy who wants to be here is asinine.

All we know is he is interested in the Habs but we don't know if we are the only team. Personally, I think he has 3-5 teams he would be open to but we are at the top.

What happens if the Avs offer their 1st and Girard and he is open to extending with them? Jets say we will trade him to the Habs if you offer the Panthers 1st, Beck, and Harris. Do you still say no?

 

[General Fanager]

Teams trade big assets yes but most times, they want the chance to also extend them. My offers are fair compared to both Trouba trade and Horvat trade.

Do you really think they can convince him to stay after one more season? Really?

Why not?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Why not?

Because if that was possible, he would have done it this season or this summer. I think he has his mind made up just like some insiders have said he has. He basically gave the Jets advanced notice last summer.

Don't ignore the signs.

 

[General Fanager]

All we know is he is interested in the Habs but we don't know if we are the only team. Personally, I think he has 3-5 teams he would be open to but we are at the top.

What happens if the Avs offer their 1st and Girard and he is open to extending with them? Jets say we will trade him to the Habs if you offer the Panthers 1st, Beck, and Harris. Do you still say no?

I still say no.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I still say no.

Sounds like saying no to Poehling+ for ROR to me.

 

[General Fanager]

Sounds like saying no to Poehling+ for ROR to me.

You keep saying he wants to be here anyways so why not wait? get the guy for free and use the assets to fill other holes....you also dont know for sure that The Jets will get multiple offers. They will try to convince HuGo that they do to up the value but where does that end?

 

[angry pirate]

Compared to the Trouba trade:
* 20th pick vs Beck
* Pionk vs Gurianov/Harris
* Habs early 2nd added
* Grade B added. Tuch or Engstrom. I prefer not to trade Engstrom though.

I will give you value on 20th vs Beck. But after that it's a lot of much lesser players/noise.

Pionk was already a legit right shot defender when traded and was still developing. I know I don't need to tell you the premium that gets placed on right handed Dmen. Gurianov nor Harris hold near the same value as Pionk did after playing 100+ games. Whether we like it or not our Pionk equivalent is Dach.

The rest is just quantity added on to an already underwhelming package for the Jets in my opinion. Tuch is a long shot prospect and calling him a B is being generous. Engstrom had a good +1 but at this point is still just quantity getting thrown into a deal.

 

[General Fanager]

I get the feeling there will be 2 different prices for PLD a price for everyone else and a price for The Habs.

The Jets will make The Habs pay a bit more to get their home town boy.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I will give you value on 20th vs Beck. But after that it's a lot of much lesser players/noise.

Pionk was already a legit right shot defender when traded and was still developing. I know I don't need to tell you the premium that gets placed on right handed Dmen. Gurianov nor Harris hold near the same value as Pionk did after playing 100+ games. Whether we like it or not our Pionk equivalent is Dach.

The rest is just quantity added on to an already underwhelming package for the Jets in my opinion. Tuch is a long shot prospect and calling him a B is being generous. Engstrom had a good +1 but at this point is still just quantity getting thrown into a deal.

Pionk's value when traded is not that much different than Harris today.

Pionk vs Harris
Beck vs 20th pick

You're underselling the 2nd which is 37-40 range. That's basically a fringe 1st rounder bud. Contending teams at the 24 TDL can't offer that. Their 2nd is 50-62 range.

Early 2nd rounders have lots of value. They should not be just labeled as just a 2nd rounder.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You keep saying he wants to be here anyways so why not wait? get the guy for free and use the assets to fill other holes....you also dont know for sure that The Jets will get multiple offers. They will try to convince HuGo that they do to up the value but where does that end?

I already explained that. He likely has the Habs at the top of his list but we are not the only team on his list. If it's a Trouba trade value, it's an easy decision. If it's a Horvat trade value, I ponder about it but it's not a automatic no with me.

The looming 24/25 season with a much higher cap can change things with player contracts once the agents know what the real cap is.

So yeah, this is not a black/white decision to make.

 

[Rapala]

I'm not sure how we could draw any sort of conclusions with most Habs in that regard considering basically nobody other than Suzuki has been able to stay in the lineup for two straight seasons. Evans was one of only 3 players last season who played over 70 games. If the measure of a player being "useless" is health, then Montreal needs to move everyone not named Suzuki.

We is in deep doo doo? No we don't need to move everyone but we can make assumptions based on history. Anderson will miss a random number of games because he has a low pain threshold. Evans Anderson Gallagher Edmundson Armia Drouin who we don't care about all have a chartable reference to games missed. Others need to put in a number of seasons before we can claim that. It isn't perfect but it does tell a tale. Gallagher's thread this off season shouldn't be will he bounce back but how many games will he play next season. For the most part it is players we hope to move/dump anyways.

 

[Captain Mountain]

We is in deep doo doo? No we don't need to move everyone but we can make assumptions based on history. Anderson will miss a random number of games because he has a low pain threshold. Evans Anderson Gallagher Edmundson Armia Drouin who we don't care about all have a chartable reference to games missed. Others need to put in a number of seasons before we can claim that. It isn't perfect but it does tell a tale. Gallagher's thread this off season shouldn't be will he bounce back but how many games will he play next season. For the most part it is players we hope to move/dump anyways.

I would not make a lot of those assumptions based on what is publicly available. But if I were to make those assumptions, I would probably be eager to capitalize on the value of Guhle, Dach, Matheson and Caufield.

Personally, I think there's something fishy with Montreal's sports performance department, most of their injury issues occurred right after they hired Adam Douglas as the sports science director. It was reported they were doing an audit of the issue, os for now, apart from a few specific cases (Edmundson and Gallagher), I would not take it as fait accompli that guys are injury prone.

 

[Rapala]

I would not make a lot of those assumptions based on what is publicly available. But if I were to make those assumptions, I would probably be eager to capitalize on the value of Guhle, Dach, Matheson and Caufield.

Matheson has a very solid games played per season average. Both Ghule and Dach have a history going back to junior but we have to believe they can get past that. Caufield is no issue unless he keeps getting hit in the head. But back to Evans how could you not be concerned everytime he gets hit.

 

[Scriptor]

There are pictures of Comtois partying with the boys and celebrating their victory at the bar. Il a l'air arrosé, pis pas à peu près. The players who were responsible for this were at the bar that night, that's for sure. You never know what people can do, especially when they're in a crowd/group.

Group mentality is not the most edifying sort of thought process, that's for sure.

 

[sampollock]

Looks like Sean M will be a Ufa.
Doubt they sign him

 

[ReHabs]

Looks like Sean M will be a Ufa.
Doubt they sign him

Yeah... just because Suzuki said Monahan is driven to play next year doesn't mean it has to be with the Habs. He's often injured and under the knife... we were given a first round pick to get him for free off Calgary. We already have too many forwards as it is. I don't see the point of retaining the guy unless he makes it clear he wants to ply his trade here with a one year, low cap-hit deal.

 

[Milhouse40]

 

[Captain Mountain]

People talk about the Florida pick in a hypothetical Dubois trade, but I get the feeling that they'd be more interested in using that pick to acquire a guy like Lafreniere. I think they see Dubois as likely one way or another and would look at that as more of a hockey trade (like the rumours of the 3 players offer from around last years draft).

 

[Milhouse40]

People talk about the Florida pick in a hypothetical Dubois trade, but I get the feeling that they'd be more interested in using that pick to acquire a guy like Lafreniere. I think they see Dubois as likely one way or another and would look at that as more of a hockey trade (like the rumours of the 3 players offer from around last years draft).

There's always Dubois as a possibility but that's not the only thing out there also and far from the only thing the Habs need, especially if an offensive defenseman is out there......and that 1st round pick should be a very good shopping asset at the draft.

 

[Sterling Archer]

People talk about the Florida pick in a hypothetical Dubois trade, but I get the feeling that they'd be more interested in using that pick to acquire a guy like Lafreniere. I think they see Dubois as likely one way or another and would look at that as more of a hockey trade (like the rumours of the 3 players offer from around last years draft).

I agree. I don’t think they’d give that pick for PLD either when he can be had for much less. Also, Hughes was very specific about a Dach like deal which Laf fits right into.

 

[Draft]

There's always Dubois as a possibility but that's not the only thing out there also and far from the only thing the Habs need, especially if an offensive defenseman is out there......and that 1st round pick should be a very good shopping asset at the draft.

I don't really see any RD that are better than what we have, under 26, and possibly available.

Maybe Durzi? I'm not a huge fan, but he can play 20mins a night.
Maybe Addison? Itty bitty and struggling to break out.
Maybe one of Gustavsson/Wallstedt are available? Big gamble moving that pick for a goalie.
Maybe Lafreniere? Seems closest to the Dach comparable.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

People talk about the Florida pick in a hypothetical Dubois trade, but I get the feeling that they'd be more interested in using that pick to acquire a guy like Lafreniere. I think they see Dubois as likely one way or another and would look at that as more of a hockey trade (like the rumours of the 3 players offer from around last years draft).

Rangers aren't trading Lafreniere for a mid-first round pick