HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #84: Off-Season edition

[Nico Cauzuki]

Interesting ideas but with our pick, I don't think we should be drafting by position of need in Reinbacher. He's ranked 20th on Bob's mid season list and drafting him in the 5-10 range will be a big reach. Even bigger than taking KK 3rd. Reinbacher moves inside the top 10 in ranking before the draft? Possible but I have my doubts on that.

you keep using Bob's old list to rank Reinbacher i promise you he will be drafted way before that this summer wait till he releases hes final list you will see him in the top 10

Reinbacher would be a great pick if we pick at 7 or after

 

[Habs Halifax]

you keep using Bob's old list to rank Reinbacher i promise you he will be drafted way before that this summer wait till he releases hes final list you will see him in the top 10

Yes, I do use Bob's list and trust his list more than my own or anybody else. He's not perfect but he's usually more closer to the truth vs any other ranking. I won't be shocked if he moves in the 5-10 range or he stays close to 20 or he moves from 10-15 when the final rankings come out. I just have my doubts he moves to 5-10 range.

Curious, what has Reinbacher done in 2023 to earn high phrase and becoming a hot target? Not a preloaded question, I'm curious to see the context.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

Yes, I do use Bob's list and trust his list more than my own or anybody else. He's not perfect but he's usually more closer to the truth vs any other ranking. I won't be shocked if he moves in the 5-10 range or he stays close to 20 or he moves from 10-15 when the final rankings come out. I just have my doubts he moves to 5-10 range.

Curious, what has Reinbacher done in 2023 to earn high phrase and becoming a hot target? Not a preloaded question, I'm curious to see the context.

find me the last time a def wasnt picked in the top 10? RD is the hardest position to fill after center and Reinbacher has tons of potentiel and hes a big guy that skates well your Bob list is old if he makes one today i promise you he doesnt have him at #20 i wish he would be available at Florida's pick but that will never happen

 

[nhlfan9191]

If I was Gorton or Hughes and I knew that he would wait for one more year and also be willing to take similar contracts to Horvat, Hintz, or Larkin, I would wait and let the Jets drown with him for one more year.

The part I wonder about is he cap for 24/25 and what changes from now till then? Does Brisson push for $9M - $10M when they know the cap is $88M+ for 24/25? Contracts could change and I do think agents are going to make GM's take fits when the official cap for 24/25 is known.

I even spoken to a larger cap than $83.5M for next year with a higher escrow and some fans laughed at me. Well, Bettman just said that exact same thing this week.

No way I’m paying a guy who will likely have hit 70 points once $9-10 million regardless of the cap going up. Dubois has be realistic too. He’s worth around the same as Suzuki whose signed long term.

 

[Vachon23]

Project goalies is something entirely different. Adam Nicholas and MSL don't have an answer for goaltending.

They should invest more in goalie development.

 

[Adam Michaels]

They should invest more in goalie development.

I think they should hire Sean Burke.

 

[RationalExpectations]

I believe if we add Laf with what we already have we are closer to the playoff than we are to the lottery tho.

Like other poster suggested, drafting Reinbacher and trading for Dubois and inking him long term may bring our team in the playoff as soon as next season. I think it would be a better option than going for Laf.

This team is one of the 3 worst in the East, they need to be better than 8 teams total, Dubois and Reinbacher does not bring them that close. i like Reinbacher but I don t see him as a difference maker in the NHL in his D+1.

 

[nhlfan9191]

I think they should hire Sean Burke.

I mean Burke did help Price who was skating on one leg and walking around in crutches carry a complete farce of a team to the SCF.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No way I’m paying a guy who will likely have hit 70 points once $9-10 million regardless of the cap going up. Dubois has be realistic too. He’s worth around the same as Suzuki whose signed long term.

I agree. I also have noticed that his improved stats this year has taken a change since Connor was moved to the Scheifele line. That happened right after Kypreos reported "Dubois won't change his mind even if they win a cup". Is Dubois playing injured? Not sure but with Connor not on his line, he's been affected like Suzuki with Caufield injured.

Since Jan 1st, Dubois has 15 pts with 7 goals in 24 games (0.63 pts/game). Certainly not the same level of production he put up from Oct - Dec 31st.

Talent does need to play with Talent. Dubois is a very good physical center and I'd love to add him but no way he should be paid more than Hintz, Horvat, or Larkin. I just worry about how contracts change when agents know about the future cap growth more in the next year.

 

[angry pirate]

Yes, I do use Bob's list and trust his list more than my own or anybody else. He's not perfect but he's usually more closer to the truth vs any other ranking. I won't be shocked if he moves in the 5-10 range or he stays close to 20 or he moves from 10-15 when the final rankings come out. I just have my doubts he moves to 5-10 range.

Curious, what has Reinbacher done in 2023 to earn high phrase and becoming a hot target? Not a preloaded question, I'm curious to see the context.

find me the last time a def wasnt picked in the top 10? RD is the hardest position to fill after center and Reinbacher has tons of potentiel and hes a big guy that skates well your Bob list is old if he makes one today i promise you he doesnt have him at #20 i wish he would be available at Florida's pick but that will never happen

Cosentino at Sportsnet just released his March rankings yesterday.

"10. David Reinbacher, D, Kloten (SUI): It’s not often a player so young is so heavily relied on by a senior men’s team in a top-notched pro league. "

I'll take some Reinbacher with Flordia's pick all day.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Cosentino at Sportsnet just released his March rankings yesterday.

"10. David Reinbacher, D, Kloten (SUI): It’s not often a player so young is so heavily relied on by a senior men’s team in a top-notched pro league. "

I'll take some Reinbacher with Flordia's pick all day.

If we don't trade for Dubois, Panthers pick used on Reinbacher fits. But what we see today, not with our pick (4-8 range). Maybe we use a 2nd rounder to move down with the Panthers pick from 14-16 to 10-12.

 

[Captain Mountain]

No way I’m paying a guy who will likely have hit 70 points once $9-10 million regardless of the cap going up. Dubois has be realistic too. He’s worth around the same as Suzuki whose signed long term.

Montreal bought 4 UFA years. Dubois would likely be more than that.

Dubois isn't going to settle for a Suzuki contract, but he might not hit 9-10 mil either. I expect he'll be looking at the Miller/Horvat/Zibanejad contracts as the floor though. The floor may be lower depending on trade protections.

 

[Habs Halifax]

find me the last time a def wasnt picked in the top 10? RD is the hardest position to fill after center and Reinbacher has tons of potentiel and hes a big guy that skates well your Bob list is old if he makes one today i promise you he doesnt have him at #20 i wish he would be available at Florida's pick but that will never happen

You can't promise me anything. I know what you are saying but I'm going to hold out until after the U18's to see more accurate rankings and yes, I will trust Bob's list more than any other.

 

[Hins77]

Yes, I do use Bob's list and trust his list more than my own or anybody else. He's not perfect but he's usually more closer to the truth vs any other ranking. I won't be shocked if he moves in the 5-10 range or he stays close to 20 or he moves from 10-15 when the final rankings come out. I just have my doubts he moves to 5-10 range.

Curious, what has Reinbacher done in 2023 to earn high phrase and becoming a hot target? Not a preloaded question, I'm curious to see the context.

There is not many guys whose been draft by swiss league. But this league, is a really competitive one.
Mark Streit, 11 pts in 46 games on his draft year
Roman Josi, 8 pts in 35 games
Siegenthaler, 3 pts in 41 games

And then, you have an elite forward in Matthews whose have product 46 pts in 36 matchs.

Reinbacher has 22 pts in 46 games.

Points/stats isnt showing everything. But, when a team in Swiss league is using a 18 years old dman often like this, this is because he dominate something.

 

[Habs Halifax]

There is not many guys whose been draft by swiss league. But this league, is a really competitive one.
Mark Streit, 11 pts in 46 games on his draft year
Roman Josi, 8 pts in 35 games
Siegenthaler, 3 pts in 41 games

And then, you have an elite forward in Matthews whose have product 46 pts in 36 matchs.

Reinbacher has 22 pts in 46 games.

Points/stats isnt showing everything. But, when a team in Swiss league is using a 18 years old dman often like this, this is because he dominate something.

There are always exceptions to the rule but the exception is not the rule. Imagine trying to use Thompson's break out in a narrative of saying KK will break out too?

If you're assessment was accurate, Bob would have had Reinbacher ranked better than 20th in his mid season rankings.

I'm not low on Reinbacher, I'm just being humble cause if there was better defensive depth in this draft, this narrative would not be talked about in terms of Reinbacher moving to top 10 value. He could be a hit yes but he could also be a reach.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Montreal bought 4 UFA years. Dubois would likely be more than that.

Dubois isn't going to settle for a Suzuki contract, but he might not hit 9-10 mil either. I expect he'll be looking at the Miller/Horvat/Zibanejad contracts as the floor though. The floor may be lower depending on trade protections.

$8M - $9M range to fall in line with contracts recently handed out (Hintz, Horvat, Larkin). And we can offer lots of signing bonus structure. Neither Larkin or Horvat got any signing bonus money but the Habs can do this.

I heard recently that even in our tank year with lots of injuries, Habs have the highest average attendance. Montreal is a money maker big time and signing bonus money (more than 50% of the contract) is something we can offer where other teams avoid it. This is substantial extra investment time for Dubois

 

[Hins77]

There are always exceptions to the rule but the exception is not the rule. Imagine trying to use Thompson's break out in a narrative of saying KK will break out too?

If you're assessment was accurate, Bob would have had Reinbacher ranked better than 20th in his mid season rankings.

I'm not low on Reinbacher, I'm just being humble cause if there was better defensive depth in this draft, this narrative would not be talked about in terms of Reinbacher moving to top 10 value. He could be a hit yes but he could also be a reach.

There is a little reach yes, I see reinbacher into the top 10. The only reason is to acquire that kind of Dman, you need to draft them. They have better market value than forward. I see a gap after those guys bedard/michkov/fantilli/carlsson/smith/benson, and there will have some dman in the mix.

 

[Habs Halifax]

There is a little reach yes, I see reinbacher into the top 10. The only reason is to acquire that kind of Dman, you need to draft them. They have better market value than forward. I see a gap after those guys bedard/michkov/fantilli/carlsson/smith/benson, and there will have some dman in the mix.

It will be interesting to monitor the rankings as we move closer to the draft. I'm assuming Reinbacher will not be at the U18's? Turned 18 last Oct.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Montreal bought 4 UFA years. Dubois would likely be more than that.

Dubois isn't going to settle for a Suzuki contract, but he might not hit 9-10 mil either. I expect he'll be looking at the Miller/Horvat/Zibanejad contracts as the floor though. The floor may be lower depending on trade protections.

I can’t get behind giving a player who’s never even been PPG one time in his career close to $10 million dollars. That’s just terrible cap management regardless if the cap goes up. The Suzuki contract is more than fair. If they have to go up to $8 million then that would be fine. I don’t go a dime more. Dubois ain’t that guy to have that much invested in.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I can’t get behind giving a player who’s never even been PPG one time in his career close to $10 million dollars. That’s just terrible cap management regardless if the cap goes up. The Suzuki contract is more than fair. If they have to go up to $8 million then that would be fine. I don’t go a dime more. Dubois ain’t that guy to have that much invested in.

Love to add Dubois but no way we should be adding him like he is some undisputed 1st line center that turns the needle as a $9M - $10M player.

Dubois coming home at the right time for his prime and also our direction up the standings fit. However, one way to get yourself alienated is to go after the absolute max AAV deal. $68M vs $80M over 8 years. $12M is a lot of money but is the pressure/attention worth it when $68M gets you set for life and you leave a little for your teammates in a salary cap league? It's not like we are asking him to take $7M or less.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Cosentino at Sportsnet just released his March rankings yesterday.

"10. David Reinbacher, D, Kloten (SUI): It’s not often a player so young is so heavily relied on by a senior men’s team in a top-notched pro league. "

I'll take some Reinbacher with Flordia's pick all day.

He won’t be there at Fla’s pick.

Montreal needs to decide if he’s their version of Seider. At 6-8 I don’t mind the pick. At 4-6 it’s Michkov ALL DAY LONG.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I believe if we add Laf with what we already have we are closer to the playoff than we are to the lottery tho.

Like other poster suggested, drafting Reinbacher and trading for Dubois and inking him long term may bring our team in the playoff as soon as next season. I think it would be a better option than going for Laf.

The lottery is all non-playoff teams. 11/16 can pick 1st OA.

I don't see the logic of a Lafreniere offersheet, but lets play out this hypothetical. Lets assume Montreal drafts Reinbacher and trades for Lafreniere and Dubois (and only gives up, say, Dvorak on the main roster). Lets also say the organization fixes its health and conditioning luck/processes and they don't lose guys like Caufield, Dach, Guhle, Matheson, etc. for large parts of the season. You end up with a line-up something like (you can play around with lines and pairs):

Lafreniere-Suzuki-Caufield
Hoffman-Dubois-Anderson
Gurianov-Dach-Gallagher
Slafkovsky-Evans-Armia/Ylonen

Matheson-Kovacevic
Guhle-Savard
Edmundson-Barron/Harris/Xhekaj

Allen
Montembault

Is that really a lineup that you think can compete with Toronto, Boston and Tampa? How about a Florida team that wont be in cap hell and can add? Or a Buffalo team that has one of the most potent offenses in the NHL and two rapidly improving 1st OA pick D-men? Plus an Ottawa team that's further ahead in a rebuild who has been adding high end talent for a year? And that's just the Atlantic, we're not even talking about a Metro Division with the Devils, Rangers and Hurricanes, plus teams that want to compete like the Pens, Caps and Islanders.

You've also guaranteed that the Rangers (with a famously petty and vindictive owner) will offersheet someone the Habs have. And with the cap mess Montreal is in now, they Habs would be vulnerable to that.

Montreal had a -98 goal differential last season and had a 45.5% xGoal differential. At 68 games so far this season and with far better goaltending, they're currently at -58 and 43.9%.

The Habs are a REALLY bad team. Even if you added Dubois and Lafreniere, you'd have to be really confident in not just team health, but also significant growth in most of Montreal's young players for the team to be closer to a playoff spot than 1st OA. Acquiring Dubois makes sense because you it helps you plan cap and you know what you're giving up, but a Laf offersheet feels like a Bergevin-style shortcut in the place of deliberate team-building when there shouldn't be any urgency.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I can’t get behind giving a player who’s never even been PPG one time in his career close to $10 million dollars. That’s just terrible cap management regardless if the cap goes up. The Suzuki contract is more than fair. If they have to go up to $8 million then that would be fine. I don’t go a dime more. Dubois ain’t that guy to have that much invested in.

I wouldn't give him close to 10 mil either, but he's 24, been angling for free agency since he asked out of Columbus, and having a career year (driven mostly by PP production and being one of the few Jets forwards that plays defence, but still) He's not going to settle for an 8 mil AAV when his comparables have been getting more than that for a couple of years now. Plus the cap is also projected to start rising again soon.

 

[Colezuki]

Cosentino at Sportsnet just released his March rankings yesterday.

"10. David Reinbacher, D, Kloten (SUI): It’s not often a player so young is so heavily relied on by a senior men’s team in a top-notched pro league. "

I'll take some Reinbacher with Flordia's pick all day.

He won't be there,

Reinbacher is going top 7, big RHD in a pro league already with some offense and bite he's going between 5-7.

Note: this isn't my take, just what GM's 100% think

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

What Suzuki is making is only relevant as a percentage of what the cap was when he signed the contract.
If the cap goes up 3mil Dubois should be getting more than Suzuki. And that is the one reason for him to sign for a year and go to UFA and risk suffering a serious injury before getting a long term deal.