HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #80

[BigHabs]

I'm so pumped for deadline. Plus the upcoming offseason already.

Dadonov, Monahan, Drouin, Allen. Possibly all moved at the deadline. Heres to hoping all four have good years in contract years to boost the value.

First round picks to either draft or trade for big names.

Byron coming off the books, Hoffman will be 1yr away from off the books as well next offseason.

The capspace come next offseason can be a breath of fresh air.

I said it going into this offseason feel like hope and optimism is there and after moves like today plus the current and future drafts with cap space. The sky really is the limit.

 

[HabzSauce]

How do we feel about John Gibson?

I know he's been off last few years but he looks like he's similar to Carey price in sense that if he doesn't care they he won't play elite.

Another question to ask is if he would even be interested in playing for Montreal? I can't see why not currently especially with the direction our organization is moving in.

 

[RationalExpectations]

How do we feel about John Gibson?

I know he's been off last few years but he looks like he's similar to Carey price in sense that if he doesn't care they he won't play elite.

Another question to ask is if he would even be interested in playing for Montreal? I can't see why not currently especially with the direction our organization is moving in.

With MTL in rebuild mode in a stacked division in a stacked conference, with ANA having no cap incentive to trade him at a discount, what is the reasoning behind a) Gibson wanting to come ? (ANA has a higher chance than MTL to make the playoffs) b) ANA trading him at a reasonable price and c) MTL spending futures to acquire him ?

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

The extra 10.5 M of cap space we just got from Price's news is pretty massive. We went from being very limited cap wise to having a decent amount of cap space.

 

[Belial]

The extra 10.5 M of cap space we just got from Price's news is pretty massive. We went from being very limited cap wise to having a decent amount of cap space.

Not really, Monahan + Dach's extension should eat up almost all of that.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Not really, Monahan + Dach's extension should eat up almost all of that.

I mean none of those 2 moves could be done without Price's news.
Price's contract had also 4 years remaining, so we're not just benefiting this season

 

[Belial]

I mean none of those 2 moves could be done without Price's news.
Price's contract had also 4 years remaining, so we're not just benefiting this season

The whole LTIR thing is a lot more complex than that.

You can't just trade for 4 dudes on LTIR and spend 100M on new players.

Honestly, I'm not able to figure it out completely on this day...

I guess that's why every team needs a capologist working full time.

 

[ReHabs]

The whole LTIR thing is a lot more complex than that.

You can't just trade for 4 dudes on LTIR and spend 100M on new players.

Honestly, I'm not able to figure it out completely on this day...

I guess that's why every team needs a capologist working full time.

What I’ve learned is that it majorly depends on wether it is permanent LTIR or not. If there is a sliver of a chance the player can return to action in a season (and bring their Cap Hit with them), then this whole scheme is ruinous and can get a team in major trouble.

So from what I understand, Hughes is pretty much certain that Price will not be able to play at all this season due to the impending (?) surgery and the recovery timetable that would come with it.

I think we aren’t out of the woods yet, the NHL and its doctors will want to see Price take proactive and regular steps to return to action. Price will need to prove he is (1) too injured to play, (2) the non-surgical treatment didn’t relieve or correct the injury, and (3) he tried to get surgery or will get surgery or has gotten surgery.

The last one is important. It is what kept Shea Weber’s situation so vague: he was in too much pain to play and it could only be conceivably fixed with surgery, but the surgery would remove mobility and make him (by default) not capable of playing hockey. As in he would not get medically cleared to return in any case if he has the surgery. So he wouldn’t be “injured” he just would not be able to return — but Shea won’t give up free millions and retire, hence the impasse.

Not sure how they resolved the Weber situation tbh but it looks like Price’s situation is very similar. By the end of this season it will have to be cleared up.

 

[Belial]

What I’ve learned is that it majorly depends on wether it is permanent LTIR or not. If there is a sliver of a chance the player can return to action in a season (and bring their Cap Hit with them), then this whole scheme is ruinous and can get a team in major trouble.

So from what I understand, Hughes is pretty much certain that Price will not be able to play at all this season due to the impending (?) surgery and the recovery timetable that would come with it.

I think we aren’t out of the woods yet, the NHL and its doctors will want to see Price take proactive and regular steps to return to action. Price will need to prove he is (1) too injured to play, (2) the non-surgical treatment didn’t relieve or correct the injury, and (3) he tried to get surgery or will get surgery or has gotten surgery.

The last one is important. It is what kept Shea Weber’s situation so vague: he was in too much pain to play and it could only be conceivably fixed with surgery, but the surgery would remove mobility and make him (by default) not capable of playing hockey. As in he would not get medically cleared to return in any case if he has the surgery. So he wouldn’t be “injured” he just would not be able to return — but Shea won’t give up free millions and retire, hence the impasse.

Not sure how they resolved the Weber situation tbh but it looks like Price’s situation is very similar. By the end of this season it will have to be cleared up.

Great post and even there, there's the thing of putting someone on LTIR before the season starts or after the season starts.

In my lil brain it's always a better solution to be cap compliant before the season start and then put players on LTIR.

But with what we have right now they'll probably go with the LTIR before the season starts.

 

[ReHabs]

Great post and even there, there's the thing of putting someone on LTIR before the season starts or after the season starts.

In my lil brain it's always a better solution to be cap compliant before the season start and then put players on LTIR.

But with what we have right now they'll probably go with the LTIR before the season starts.

Someone correct me if I’m totally wrong but

Before season starts LTIR = when they return in the season they come with their full cap hit

After season starts LTIR = when they return they come with their date adjusted or prorated cap hit

So you better be sure you have 10.5m if Price returns mid season… this is why they did the trade, they know Price cannot return this season even if all parties wanted him to

 

[Belial]

Someone correct me if I’m totally wrong but

Before season starts LTIR = when they return in the season they come with their full cap hit

After season starts LTIR = when they return they come with their date adjusted or prorated cap hit

So you better be sure you have 10.5m if Price returns mid season… this is why they did the trade, they know Price cannot return this season even if all parties wanted him to

You got the fast-forward version, but it's way more complicated at the end of the day.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not really, Monahan + Dach's extension should eat up almost all of that.

$2.9M left according to my calculations.

 

[Belial]

$2.9M left according to my calculations.

That whole LTIR thing is really tough to figure out for us fans.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Someone correct me if I’m totally wrong but

Before season starts LTIR = when they return in the season they come with their full cap hit

After season starts LTIR = when they return they come with their date adjusted or prorated cap hit

So you better be sure you have 10.5m if Price returns mid season… this is why they did the trade, they know Price cannot return this season even if all parties wanted him to

The only difference with the before and after the season starts is ability to accrue cap space. So as it stands now, Price is on LTIR before the season and I have around $2.9M in cap space. That will remain that way for the entire season and not grow. Would require another injury to go on LTIR (after the season starts) in order for that to grow.

So yeah, Price is likely on LTIR for the entire season. Would be a massive gamble taking on Monahan with no back-up plan. Sounds like Price is heading for another major surgery and that last kick at the can to get him back.

That whole LTIR thing is really tough to figure out for us fans.

I use cap friendly armchair GM module. It's pretty accurate. It will automatically factor in Alzner's buyout and overages from last season.

Forget about the lines cause it's hard to predict but this is as accurate as it gets. 23 man roster with $2.9M in cap space (Price on LTIR). I got a good understanding on how LTIR works but I always use this armchair GM to cover any blind spots.

 

[Belial]

The only difference with the before and after the season starts is ability to accrue cap space. So as it stands now, Price is on LTIR before the season and I have around $2.9M in cap space. That will remain that way for the entire season and not grow. Would require another injury to go on LTIR (after the season starts) in order for that to grow.

So yeah, Price is likely on LTIR for the entire season. Would be a massive gamble taking on Monahan with no back-up plan. Sounds like Price is heading for another major surgery and that last kick at the can to get him back.



I use cap friendly armchair GM module. It's pretty accurate. It will automatically factor in Alzner's buyout and overages from last season.

Forget about the lines cause it's hard to predict but this is as accurate as it gets. 23 man roster with $2.9M in cap space (Price on LTIR). I got a good understanding on how LTIR works but I always use this armchair GM to cover any blind spots.

And what that site is telling you? They just give us numbers...

 

[Habs Halifax]

And what that site is telling you? They just give us numbers...

Yes, they give us numbers... accurate ones.

LTIR is not that complicated if they are there for the entire season. The biggest difference is when they are placed on LTIR. If it's before the season starts cause you need it on LTIR to be under the cap, it will push any ELC performance bonuses automatically into the following season and also not allow you to accumulate and accrued cap space growth as the season moves along.

If there are no more changes and that's the roster (Price on LTIR), it's going to be very close to $2.9M in cap space.

If we didn't need Price to go on LTIR before the season started, it changes things a bit. Last year we got lucky... Weber was on LTIR before the season started and then Price went on LTIR after the season started. That created ability to accrue cap space. If Price was not on LTIR last year, we would have probably not been able to retain on Chiarot or Lehkonen.

 

[ReHabs]

What does "the ability to accrue cap space" really mean?

Weber went on pre-season LTIR and that cap space was replaced entirely.

 

[Habs Halifax]

What does "the ability to accrue cap space" really mean?

Weber went on pre-season LTIR and that cap space was replaced entirely.

Ability to accrue cap space is a daily calculation. $3M at the beginning of the season grows as the season moves along. Lots of things can happen during the season though and that daily calculation is how the NHL set up the CBA on the salary cap.

Weber went on LTIR before the season yes. But that pushes your upper limit allowing you to use that space but it also blocks any ability to accrue cap growth as the season moved along and also automatically pushes any ELC performance bonuses to the following season. We have $1.13M of carryover bonues from last season because Weber was on LTIR before the season started.

Price going on LTIR after the season started changed it entirely. A massive cap hit going on LTIR basically trumped the Weber negative factor.

 

[NewEraGM]

I’d be interested to see how pitlick does this year. If he builds on last year and becomes a 20G and 30A player, he can start looking like another Hagel. He signed super cheap to 2 more years so teams will love that cap security.
I don’t think he’d get 2 firsts but I could see him getting a first just given his contract. One of the most undervalued contracts/players in our organization right now imo.

 

[Habs Halifax]

How do we feel about John Gibson?

I know he's been off last few years but he looks like he's similar to Carey price in sense that if he doesn't care they he won't play elite.

Another question to ask is if he would even be interested in playing for Montreal? I can't see why not currently especially with the direction our organization is moving in.

I feel like Gibson should stay with the Ducks or be traded to a team that is closer to contention and needs a goalie.

Ride with Allen and Monty with Primeau getting a few starts again. Gibson is at a age where he has a lot of milage and his best days are behind him.

 

[SwiftyHab]

We’re going to have too many forwards on 1 way contracts to start the season. We still need to trade someone before the season opener or we’ll lose them in the waiver wire

 

[Habs Halifax]

We’re going to have too many forwards on 1 way contracts to start the season. We still need to trade someone before the season opener or we’ll lose them in the waiver wire

Who's going on waivers that we don't want to loose? List of names please. What team is going to claim a contract eating up valuable cap space? Actually, how many teams actually have cap space to claim a $3M+ contract?

If we have to send one or two of Drouin, Byron, Dadonov, Hoffman, Armia to the AHL to create a roster spot, who cares if they are claimed.

Slaf may make the team (we will see) but Byron may start on IR.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Who's going on waivers that we don't want to loose? List of names please. What team is going to claim a contract eating up valuable cap space? Actually, how many teams actually have cap space to claim a $3M+ contract?

If we have to send one or two of Drouin, Byron, Dadonov, Hoffman, Armia to the AHL to create a roster spot, who cares if they are claimed.

Slaf may make the team (we will see) but Byron may start on IR.

Imagine being worried if one of those guys would get claimed on waivers, doing us a favour.

 

[Deebs]

I’d be interested to see how pitlick does this year. If he builds on last year and becomes a 20G and 30A player, he can start looking like another Hagel. He signed super cheap to 2 more years so teams will love that cap security.
I don’t think he’d get 2 firsts but I could see him getting a first just given his contract. One of the most undervalued contracts/players in our organization right now imo.

I think we need to temper the Pitlick expectations.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think we need to temper the Pitlick expectations.

Agreed. Pitlick had ice time opportunity when he came due to all the injuries. Heading into this season, there are a lot of guys on contract years and guys looking to rebound and guys looking to crack a spot (Slaf). So yeah, competition is going to be high in camp IMO and Pitlick is going to have to shine more than others if he is getting 17 min/game. Probably slips down to 10-15 range this year I bet.

Imagine being worried if one of those guys would get claimed on waivers, doing us a favour.

Kind of like a pack rat or hoarder worried about loosing something he don't need but someone did them a favor.