HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #80

[absolute garbage]

It don't make sense to you cause you likely don't believe in a $90M cap for 24/25 and think today's signing rates for UFA won't change in the next 2 years

Can you admit that you have an opinion and so do I. You won't convince me to change my mind and you think you are going to find something to tell me that I already didn't think about. That's likely false.

You can sign anybody with less than 1 year of expiry left and once free agency hit, anybody with a 1 year deal can sign an extension. So yeah, you can trade for Dubois today and have an extension in place. I just told you something you were unaware of so you probably don't know as much as I do . There is a method to my apparent madness that you likely think it is.

I'm like 99% sure Montreal wouldn't be able to sign Dubois to an extension if they traded for him today, so I'm not sure how much you actually "know". Maybe they could have some unofficial verbal agreement, but that's then another thing.

I like Dubois, I'm just not seeing him as this necessary difference maker you absolutely must have. Like, is he really more than a 60 point player even? He would be a nice add if the fit and money is right, but the talk about him being some kind of must-have core piece (and comparisons to Dobson, Stutzle, Raymond) is way overboard. The core needs to be built through drafting, like with the Florida pick in the best case scenario, and players like Dubois would then be more an addition to that. If you trade the supposed-to-be-core for players like Dubois, what do you have?

Frankly if he asked for well over 8M, even as a "free agent" in 2024, I'd probably spend the money elsewhere.

 

[SwiftyHab]

What to make of this? Sounds like he really wants to force a trade or he’s not really keen on playing well into his 30s since that next contract is an 8 year max

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

So Dubois lives 15min away from the bell center and Savard his like hes brother i like that

Anyways from that interview its pretty clear hes 100% leaving he dodged so many questions lol

 

[Omar]

Why can’t it be the other way around? You sign the known elite players and then you hope your prospects on ELCs can come in and produce/be elite themselves.

Because it makes no sense. You don’t get players who stop you from being bad enough to get elite players in key positions. You have to build the middle of the ice first. Otherwise you won’t fill the team properly. You have to draft elite centers and it has to happen at the top of the draft. Huberdeau is old enough that if we don’t get it right, we’ll be repeating the cycle all over again.

Where we need to be is a team that has superstars on it. Adding a superstar helps you get there.

We have Nick Suzuki signed long-term, just traded for Kirby Dach, and there have been non-stop rumours about Pierre-Luc Dubois, on top of the Habs being in line to draft high again in 2023 in a draft loaded with centers. They aren't done there yet but it's not like there's nothing in place already or that we can't possibly consider a winger in the next year or two.

Yeah, that's the point. The roster will be ready to start making improvements as soon as next year and adding Huberdeau to the lineup would make players like Caufield and Suzuki way better and help the team improve on the PP quickly.

If Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Slafkovsky, Dach, a high pick in 2023, and all the other picks we've made in the 2018-2022 draft periods aren't enough to justify adding a top player and devleop into a good team then we may as well trade everyone but Slafkovsky and Guhle for picks and prospects to tank for 5 years because we truly have no foundation if you can't justify adding Huberdeau.

There is a compelling argument that Huberdeau may not be the player you spend 10M on at his age and that he might be overvalued given he can't defend, but that's a separate argument from this "promoting mediocrity" stuff. He would be the most talented Canadiens forward this millenium. Tanking is a strategy, it's not a penance you have to do to appease the hockey gods. It's used to acquire elite talent through the draft, the point of doing it is to get elite talent, not to fulfill a procedural set of requirements so you can check off all the boxes to become a good team. If you can get elite talent in ways that aren't tanking it makes sense to do it.

The reason to not acquire Huberdeau is because you think he's not elite or won't be for long, not because adding an elite player somehow makes the team mediocre.

You can see my previous post.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

I like Dubois, I'm just not seeing him as this necessary difference maker you absolutely must have. Like, is he really more than a 60 point player even? He would be a nice add if the fit and money is right, but the talk about him being some kind of must-have core piece (and comparisons to Dobson, Stutzle, Raymond) is way overboard. The core needs to be built through drafting, like with the Florida pick in the best case scenario, and players like Dubois would then be more an addition to that. If you trade the supposed-to-be-core for players like Dubois, what do you have?

If Suzuki is a core player, why wouldn't Dubois be a core player?
Not to mention, we acquired Suzuki through trade, not by drafting him.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

It don't make sense to you cause you likely don't believe in a $90M cap for 24/25 and think today's signing rates for UFA won't change in the next 2 years

Can you admit that you have an opinion and so do I. You won't convince me to change my mind and you think you are going to find something to tell me that I already didn't think about. That's likely false.

You can sign anybody with less than 1 year of expiry left and once free agency hit, anybody with a 1 year deal can sign an extension. So yeah, you can trade for Dubois today and have an extension in place. I just told you something you were unaware of so you probably don't know as much as I do . There is a method to my apparent madness that you likely think it is.

Why do you want to give up so many assets for Dubois?

Florida’s 1st
Dvorak (he’s worth a 1st + prospect)
Armia (worth a late 1st)
Kidney

So essentially we would be giving up 3 x 1st round picks and 2 prospects.. oufffff that’s crazy to me.

Why would we do that when we can get him for free? The cap savings you’re talking about here are abysmal in comparison.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Why do you want to give up so many assets for Dubois?

Florida’s 1st
Dvorak (he’s worth a 1st + prospect)
Armia (worth a late 1st)
Kidney

So essentially we would be giving up 3 x 1st round picks and 2 prospects.. oufffff that’s crazy to me.

Why would we do that when we can get him for free? The cap savings you’re talking about here are abysmal in comparison.

Armia is not worth close to a late 1st at his contract and after last season.

 

[Scotianhab]

Wonder if a 2023 4th rd pick is enough for Ana to take Hoffman. Do they still have to hit the floor?

 

[le_sean]

Because it makes no sense. You don’t get players who stop you from being bad enough to get elite players in key positions. You have to build the middle of the ice first. Otherwise you won’t fill the team properly. You have to draft elite centers and it has to happen at the top of the draft. Huberdeau is old enough that if we don’t get it right, we’ll be repeating the cycle all over again.

Suzuki, PLD and Dach is good enough. Plus there’s plenty of great players in the Top 10 in 2023.

 

[Scotianhab]

4th with Armia instead perhaps. Wishful thinking probably.

 

[Sorinth]

I specifically just identified that we are not "selling off everything". We have two critical pieces, two pieces that would other need two different tank seasons to acquire: a top6 C in Suzuki who is playoff tested and signed long term and a top6 W in Caufield with boundless potential to grow.

Colorado and Tampa are specifically good examples of double rebuilds. Colorado gave up on Duchene and refit their team and Tampa endured a lot of pain and shuffled through both players and coaches.

I don't support selling off good players ever so I wouldn't have sold Stamkos or Hedmen to begin with... just as I don't want to sell Suzuki and Caufield. You've got me all wrong!

So in 5 years if we aren't a contender you want us to rebuild but keep Suzuki/Caufield + other good players? Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

 

[DougHarvey]

Or he and brisson are leveraging the habs and Hughes already told him he won’t bite
Dubois will be a pipe dream like all other players we wish to acquire

This is what I believe.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

Armia is not worth close to a late 1st at his contract and after last season.

Ok then 2 x 2nd or 2nd + prospect

 

[Captain Mountain]

Ok then 2 x 2nd or 2nd + prospect

More like an equally bad contract from another team.

 

[sheed36]

I'd love for the Habs to eventually add a PLD to the team but just not right now.

I'd much rather they just stay the course right now, play out next season and hopefully get another top 5 pick plus another decent prospect with the Florida 1st in this upcoming very good draft and maybe try again next summer to acquire PLD, at hopefully a bit cheaper cost since he'd only have 1 year left before UFA then.

Plus the Habs will also have much more cap flexibility next summer than they do this year with a few contracts coming off the books after next season so it would be much easier to fit PLD in then as well.

Being patient with this ongoing PLD situation is probably the best way to go about approaching this. If he really wants to be a Hab he as his chance to be one in a couple of years so we'll see.

 

[absolute garbage]

If Suzuki is a core player, why wouldn't Dubois be a core player?
Not to mention, we acquired Suzuki through trade, not by drafting him.

Semantics. He wasn't an established player, he was a prospect. Who was also traded for an older asset.

If we assume that Suzuki plateaus as a 60 point guy, you really want to spend another 8M for a similar player? I don't think that's a recipe for success. I don't think Suzuki was given that money for being a 60 point player, they are hoping for more. For Dubois that seems like the high point.

 

[Michelangelo]

Ok then 2 x 2nd or 2nd + prospect

lmfao you're out to lunch

Bjorkstrand at 1.8M more went for 3rd + 4th

and Bjorkstrand >>>> Armia

 

[Habs Halifax]

Why do you want to give up so many assets for Dubois?

Florida’s 1st
Dvorak (he’s worth a 1st + prospect)
Armia (worth a late 1st)
Kidney

So essentially we would be giving up 3 x 1st round picks and 2 prospects.. oufffff that’s crazy to me.

Why would we do that when we can get him for free? The cap savings you’re talking about here are abysmal in comparison.

I think you are off with some of your values.

Dvorak is not worth a 1st and prospect. He don't suck but he's more like worth two 2nd rounders.

Armia is not worth a late 1st. I do value him but salary in needs to match salary out. To the Jets, it's a contract dump but in the end, a player they can use on their roster and also a player they are familiar with.

Kidney won't be a top 2C in the NHL. I value what he has done at age 18 and I've seen a fair amount of games. I think his value won't never be as high as it is today.

Seems like too much I get that part but it unloads two contracts with term that are not part of our future plans and brings in a guy who is a legit 2C and for his prime years.

Get him for free for 24/25 season? He might ask for $9M then with a higher cap. I value getting him now on an extension around $7M or $7.5M for an additional 7 years on top of his $6M AAV this year.

It's my max offer and it won't get any higher than that.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

4th with Armia instead perhaps. Wishful thinking probably.

Come on man he’s an NHL body with size and skill, you don’t get that with a 4th

 

[Scotianhab]

I’d jettison Armia for the cap relief. Hoffman would be my preferred choice but either will do.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm like 99% sure Montreal wouldn't be able to sign Dubois to an extension if they traded for him today, so I'm not sure how much you actually "know". Maybe they could have some unofficial verbal agreement, but that's then another thing.

I like Dubois, I'm just not seeing him as this necessary difference maker you absolutely must have. Like, is he really more than a 60 point player even? He would be a nice add if the fit and money is right, but the talk about him being some kind of must-have core piece (and comparisons to Dobson, Stutzle, Raymond) is way overboard. The core needs to be built through drafting, like with the Florida pick in the best case scenario, and players like Dubois would then be more an addition to that. If you trade the supposed-to-be-core for players like Dubois, what do you have?

Frankly if he asked for well over 8M, even as a "free agent" in 2024, I'd probably spend the money elsewhere.

99% sure eh? You sure? The rule is you can extend anybody with less than 1 year of expiry and that kicked in at the start of UFA earlier this month. I think you should drop your 99% to 1%. I'm pretty sure Dubois and his agent purposely took the qualifying offer cause if they didn't, it would go to arbitration and the Jets could possibly sign a 2 year deal. Dubois and his agent avoided it.

Dubois is close to Suzuki value. Both are basically 60 pts players before their prime years. So it's reasonable to expect more growth and 60-80 pts from both of them.

Dach may never be as good as Dubois. And I get the feeling you think we are going to draft a center who can easily be as good as Dubois? That's wishful thinking

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Come on man he’s an NHL body with size and skill, you don’t get that with a 4th

Armia is an overpaid 4th liner. Not because you have a big body means your worth anything.

He should have been let go and never re-signed. Armia always sucked greatly and he was heavily overrated by alot of people in here. He only played pp and top 6 here because our team is absolute dogshit , which explain why the team is dogshit to begin with.

Id be happy to receive a 7th round in 2027 to get rid of his contract. another Paul Byron overpaid to play on the 4th line.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I’d jettison Armia for the cap relief. Hoffman would be my preferred choice but either will do.

Agreed. Either or can be part of a package with the salary in matching salary out narrative... if we were to get in a Dubois trade.

A separate trade? I think we should stay put unless we really do have cap issues after Dach is signed. If we have to move one contract, make it happen but do not take in a player that is signed past this season.

 

[Weltschmerz]

Come on man he’s an NHL body with size and skill, you don’t get that with a 4th

what are you smoking? he got 14 points last season, his salary next season is 4.8 millions

 

[Habs Halifax]

Armia is an overpaid 4th liner. Not because you have a big body means your worth anything.

He should have been let go and never re-signed. Armia always sucked greatly and he was heavily overrated by alot of people in here. He only played pp and top 6 here because our team is absolute dogshit , which explain why the team is dogshit to begin with.

Id be happy to receive a 7th round in 2027 to get rid of his contract. another Paul Byron overpaid to play on the 4th line.

Armia is not just some 4th liner though. He's a bottom 6F who can play in the top 6 if you need him too (in case of injuries). Sorry but calling Armia just some overpaid 4th liner is reaching.

What we seen last year from many of our players is just not the true indication due to the ripple effects of how we started the season and how injuries piled up.

Personally, I would have not signed Armia, Savard, and Hoffman last year. Would have retained Danault and called it a day. We would actually have cap space and a player who brings value.