HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #80

[yianik]

ya for sure... he said what he needed to say.... but he won't sign there

Flames should be offering him 8 X $10.5M right now. If he does not take it or does not make a legit counter offer within the next couple of weeks i would try to trade him.

 

[Weltschmerz]

You mean like being impatient like Yzerman who is considered a very patient GM? Why did he go sign players this offseason when his youth is not that much better than ours.

What patience are you talking about? The Coyotes and Blackhawks plan?

patience would be Buffalo

Yzerman is trying to get the most of the hand he was given, they don't have such a deep pool like the Sabres or even the Habs.

 

[Redux91]

Personally, I like him fine but I could do without Huberdeau, I dont need him passed the age of 30

PLD is the real true prize here

 

[JoelWarlord]

There is a yawning Chasm between stripping it down to the studs and start over rebuild and completely ignoring the cap, aging curves and going for it after one season of rebuilding.

Montreal isn't ignoring aging curves by potentially adding Huberdeau though, they're doing the exact opposite. The reason you do it is because Suzuki, Harris, and Ylonen, will be 23, Caufield and Dach will be 22, Barron, Guhle, and Farrell will be 21, Roy will be 20, and Slafkovsky will be 19 with a year of experience at the start of the 23-24 season. On top of that there will be other players coming when Allen, Dvorak, and potentially Anderson are traded, and with development from the 2018-22 draft classes there could be players who make unexpected improvements as well (and there's guys who currently project as bottom pair/bottom six forwards that could jump a tier to #4D/middle six F tier as well).

The point of adding Huberdeau is that at 30 he's still going to have a lot of game left, and the ages of the young core line up really well with him to be competing when they're all in the 22-25 prime while Huberdeau is still an excellent top-line forward and playmaker (which we also really really need). I also would push back on the idea we've only been rebuilding for one year. The front office only started calling it a rebuild recently, but we've been in a soft rebuild since 2018 and a hard rebuild for 21-22 and 22-23, the rebuild started when we traded Pacioretty for Suzuki and trying to build around Suzuki's timeline while continuing to add players with another high pick in 2023 makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Huberdeau and Trocheck gone............what if Barkov gets a knee injury?
We can hope eh.......

Trocheck was with the Canes the last two seasons.

I think they will miss Huberdeau's play making skills and how he sets up others for goals. Tkachuk is a very good add but he plays a different game than Huberdeau. Tkachuk is not the play maker Huberdeau is. They bring different values as wingers. It's very possible they generate less offense without Huberdeau and one can only guess on what kind of chemistry Tkachuk has with them. He don't have the dynamic Gaudreau on his line anymore but he has Barkov at center.

I think a lot of injuries need to pile up for the Panthers to slip to a top 10 pick. Like a lot! They are not a stronger team but are they weaker than what they were before the deadline? Not really

 

[Habs13]

The colossal irony of someone calling stupid spending assets on Dubois and then pulling the get him for free in two years card. Holy hell.

Where's the irony in it? Dubois IS going to free agency and his first choice destination is here.

 

[le_sean]

Montreal isn't ignoring aging curves by potentially adding Huberdeau though, they're doing the exact opposite. The reason you do it is because Suzuki, Harris, and Ylonen, will be 23, Caufield and Dach will be 22, Barron, Guhle, and Farrell will be 21, Roy will be 20, and Slafkovsky will be 19 with a year of experience at the start of the 23-24 season. On top of that there will be other players coming when Allen, Dvorak, and potentially Anderson are traded, and with development from the 2018-22 draft classes there could be players who make unexpected improvements as well (and there's guys who currently project as bottom pair/bottom six forwards that could jump a tier to #4D/middle six F tier as well).

The point of adding Huberdeau is that at 30 he's still going to have a lot of game left, and the ages of the young core line up really well with him to be competing when they're all in the 22-25 prime while Huberdeau is still an excellent top-line forward and playmaker (which we also really really need). I also would push back on the idea we've only been rebuilding for one year. The front office only started calling it a rebuild recently, but we've been in a soft rebuild since 2018 and a hard rebuild for 21-22 and 22-23, the rebuild started when we traded Pacioretty for Suzuki and trying to build around Suzuki's timeline while continuing to add players with another high pick in 2023 makes perfect sense to me.

No, sorry. He’ll be 30 which means he’s a year away from needing to live in a CHSLD.

We’d be better off trading Suzuki 5 years in advance from this for 2036 draft picks and hope for the best.

 

[Kosseca]

I'd take the risk of trading the Panthers 1st in the package to get Dubois. Rather trade that piece than Dach.

Top 10 protection? I would not cause then our 24 pick would be at play and I see more risks with that than the Panthers pick

I totally get the Panthers may slip narrative. But thinking it will slip to top 5 or top 10 is a massive reach. Regardless, it has very low % it will be top 5 and 6+ is not likely to be better than Dubois for his prime years. That's how I see the risks

I think that the Cal-Flo deal pretty much guaranty that you don't have to put a 1st in a deal to get Dubois. The reason why Flo had to add the pick was mainly because Huberdeau is UFA. A deal with Dvorak which has several season before being UFA somewhat negate that risk thus the need to add the 1st. So a deal with Dvorak, Armia, lower pick and b-prospect may be more then enough.

Now, there is no need for MTL to press for an early deal, nor is there a need for Win to deal him right now. I'm suspecting that a deal would be made closer to camp, if at all this year.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Personally, I like him fine but I could do without Huberdeau, I dont need him passed the age of 30

PLD is the real true prize here

Very fair. Some saying they would rather Huberdeau at 30 and not Dubois for his prime are miscalculating things.

And who's to say Huberdeau will get $9M when he is UFA. I think Kadri and Klinberg are feeling the rath of 30+ years with their new contract demands as UFA's as we speak.

Lets play these cards... Sure, Dubois and Huberdeau want to play for the Habs but how about $7M and $8M contracts for 7 years? Dubois gets $7M and Huberdeau gets $8M max? Heck, why not both of you at $7M or $7.5M?

The part where my interest fades is if they are interested in the Habs but only on max deals and the highest AAV they can get. I might steer clear then.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think that the Cal-Flo deal pretty much guaranty that you don't have to put a 1st in a deal to get Dubois. The reason why Flo had to add the pick was mainly because Huberdeau is UFA. A deal with Dvorak which has several season before being UFA somewhat negate that risk thus the need to add the 1st. So a deal with Dvorak, Armia, lower pick and b-prospect may be more then enough.

Now, there is no need for MTL to press for an early deal, nor is there a need for Win to deal him right now. I'm suspecting that a deal would be made closer to camp, if at all this year.

I don't hate this approach as well. Dvorak, Armia, Kidney and maybe a D prospect like Struble or a 2nd rounder.

The Tkachuk/Huberdeau trade is likely to extend to another 1st and grade A prospect at the deadline though when the Flames likely flip him cause he won't extend?

I'd do the Dvorak, Armia, Panthers 1st, and Kidney deal today. I think that is a more than fair offer based on the circumstances. But it gets less as time moves forward. Jets say no and insist on Suzuki? Sure, you can drown with him.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Montreal isn't ignoring aging curves by potentially adding Huberdeau though, they're doing the exact opposite. The reason you do it is because Suzuki, Harris, and Ylonen, will be 23, Caufield and Dach will be 22, Barron, Guhle, and Farrell will be 21, Roy will be 20, and Slafkovsky will be 19 with a year of experience at the start of the 23-24 season. On top of that there will be other players coming when Allen, Dvorak, and potentially Anderson are traded, and with development from the 2018-22 draft classes there could be players who make unexpected improvements as well (and there's guys who currently project as bottom pair/bottom six forwards that could jump a tier to #4D/middle six F tier as well).

The point of adding Huberdeau is that at 30 he's still going to have a lot of game left, and the ages of the young core line up really well with him to be competing when they're all in the 22-25 prime while Huberdeau is still an excellent top-line forward and playmaker (which we also really really need). I also would push back on the idea we've only been rebuilding for one year. The front office only started calling it a rebuild recently, but we've been in a soft rebuild since 2018 and a hard rebuild for 21-22 and 22-23, the rebuild started when we traded Pacioretty for Suzuki and trying to build around Suzuki's timeline while continuing to add players with another high pick in 2023 makes perfect sense to me.

Montreal very specifically was trying to build a team who could win with Weber and Price. Bergevin said that many, many times. If they were actually rebuilding, they would have been moved in 2018. Montreal's not starting from square one, but they have a lot of bad contracts and a lot of holes. I'm fine with acquiring Huberdeau if there's a way to clear Price's contract completely off the books and moving most of their inefficient contracts. That's pretty unlikely though.

This is also a moot point, there's very little chance Huberdeau signs in Montreal even if they were interested in him. Habs fandom just seems to be where Leafs fandom was a decade ago.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

This is exactly the sort of mystery box posts that people love to argue. Look at what happened between Ottawa and San Jose in decades of picks getting traded! We should expect that to repeat itself instead of actually acquiring the kind of player that that pick maybe will give us!

Wait you seriously think those rarely happen ill give you another example imagine if Bergevin didnt protect our pick in the Dvorak trade Coyotes would be drafting 1st and 3rd overall or Chicago's pick to Columbus? It happens often thats why GMs protect to pick almost all the time,we were all surprised when we heard FLA pick wasnt protected GMs rarely take that risk nowadays

 

[HABitual Fan]

You mean like being impatient like Yzerman who is considered a very patient GM? Why did he go sign players this offseason when his youth is not that much better than ours.

What patience are you talking about? The Coyotes and Blackhawks plan?

The difference is that he has gotten to see his youth play in the NHL the last 2 seasons and has an idea of what he needed to support them. With the exception of Suzuki and Caulfield, Montreal is not at that stage yet. The spots to evaluate the youth are stil being filled by the bad contracts they inherited.

 

[sampollock]

Turn full heel and say Winnipeg is an arm pit and i I want out asap
That would be the greatest thing I’ve ever heard

went to many hab games there in the past 10 years

the downtown is a pit... so sad but it is unsafe after dark

 

[Habs Halifax]

patience would be Buffalo

Yzerman is trying to get the most of the hand he was given, they don't have such a deep pool like the Sabres or even the Habs.

Yeah, that's my point and I'm assuming you agree with me. Yzerman is considered to have lots of patience and among one of the best GM's and yeah, he's not tanking again for Bedard. He signed guys that hurt his Bedard chances. It's kind of strange to me but it shows that even a guy like Yzerman knows it's a draft lottery and he might be getting pressure from the owners.

But that's only one narrative. The chance of a total disaster in case it ends up being not a late 1st rounder.

You are completely ignoring the other narrative. Which is the absolute stupidity of spending any meaningful assets for Dubois when all signs seem to point to him being interested in signing in Montreal in 2 years as UFA.

The question you and everyone should be asking is what value would Dubois bring to this team the next 2 seasons. Are you expecting the team to contend next season or the one after, so that a player like Dubois in his prime would be crucial to have in the lineup?

Your Rangers example is a good one and literally proves the point AGAINST you, because they basically started tanking in 2017 and acquisitions like Panarin, Trouba and Fox came in 2019. So in fact Dubois to Montreal in 2024 (as UFA, for free) would be perfectly in line with that (since Montreal started tanking in 2022).

Again, what you are displaying here is 100% lack of patience. Only thing one can hope is that the management has more of it than you.

I want Dubois now and the Panthers 1st and Kidney are pieces I would spare. But salary in needs to match salary out so Dvorak and Armia need to be in the trade.

Why do I want Dubois now? I would use his $6M salary this season but also get an extension in place or the deal falls through. Dubois for $7M or $7.5M for the next 7 years after this one. If you wait for two more years, I have little faith he will sign for $7M or $7.5M with a higher cap. $8M+ is where I probably say no thank you... even it he is "free to acquire".

I can't write everything that is in my head in a post. I'm very aware of the circumstances and various narratives. It's a calculated move for many reasons.

Maybe the best time to make the trade is at the deadline or on draft day 23 when we know where the Panthers pick is.

 

[absolute garbage]

The colossal irony of someone calling stupid spending assets on Dubois and then pulling the get him for free in two years card. Holy hell.

What are you talking about?

He has openly stated that he is intending to hit free agency in 2024, and from everything we can gather, Montreal seems to have an inside track as apparently, according to his words, he would like to start a family specifically in Montreal and that would happen during the next big contract he will sign.

Of course the money has to match, but that would be the case if he was traded too.

 

[BaseballCoach]

But that's only one narrative. The chance of a total disaster in case it ends up being not a late 1st rounder.

You are completely ignoring the other narrative. Which is the absolute stupidity of spending any meaningful assets for Dubois when all signs seem to point to him being interested in signing in Montreal in 2 years as UFA.

The question you and everyone should be asking is what value would Dubois bring to this team the next 2 seasons. Are you expecting the team to contend next season or the one after, so that a player like Dubois in his prime would be crucial to have in the lineup?

Your Rangers example is a good one and literally proves the point AGAINST you, because they basically started tanking in 2017 and acquisitions like Panarin, Trouba and Fox came in 2019. So in fact Dubois to Montreal in 2024 (as UFA, for free) would be perfectly in line with that (since Montreal started tanking in 2022).

Again, what you are displaying here is 100% lack of patience. Only thing one can hope is that the management has more of it than you.

Patience you ask. So we should not assemble the pieces needed to contend in 2-3 years? We should ge them all at once on the magic date? Why is it massive stupidity to acquire good assets?

If the player being talked about were NOT someone you believed is virtually certain to come running to us in two years as UFA, would you be willing to spend assets on that other 21-24 year old? Would you be willing to send assets for Noah Dobson or Tim Stutzle? Lucas Raymond?

How about using a first round draft pick? Is that a good use of assets, or should we trade it back to another year?

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Where's the irony in it? Dubois IS going to free agency and his first choice destination is here.

Players are humans with life plans, priorities, etc. I've already posted the quote from Dubois where he talks about that contracts aren't about the immediate but where you see your life down the road. In short, if you want a player, telling him to sit on his for two years because you don't want to deal some assets is terrible management and I suspect that's why the Canadiens are/were still trying to work on a deal for Dubois after the draft. If a trade can't be agreed to because the ask from ridiculous is one thing but if a trade can't be agreed to because Winnipeg just keeps receiving laughable offers from Montreal because We CaN GeT HiM FoR FrEe in 2 yEaRs, do you really think that's a positive thing for your relationship with Dubois? That stuff is important. This isn't PlayStation - the phrase people loved to bag Bergevin for.

 

[Runner77]

just think one, not 2... but hey hope I am wrong

Grab whichever player shows interest cause we already know, we’re not a destination market although one could make a case for MSL and new management making it more attractive to be here.

Not every player can withstand our media intrusiveness but those who can, and want to be here — it’s a no-brainer. There are too few of them. I don’t care if they’re named Dubois, Huberdeau or … Aho.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

What are you talking about?

He has openly stated that he is intending to hit free agency in 2024, and from everything we can gather, Montreal seems to have an inside track as apparently, according to his words, he would like to start a family specifically in Montreal and that would happen during the next big contract he will sign.

Of course the money has to match, but that would be the case if he was traded too.

I just posted a post that explains it.

 

[tazsub3]

I think that the Cal-Flo deal pretty much guaranty that you don't have to put a 1st in a deal to get Dubois. The reason why Flo had to add the pick was mainly because Huberdeau is UFA. A deal with Dvorak which has several season before being UFA somewhat negate that risk thus the need to add the 1st. So a deal with Dvorak, Armia, lower pick and b-prospect may be more then enough.

Now, there is no need for MTL to press for an early deal, nor is there a need for Win to deal him right now. I'm suspecting that a deal would be made closer to camp, if at all this year.

Of course not, but if the deal is built around dvorak, then we sure have to make it happen even if the prospect is an a prospect not named ghule.

 

[DAChampion]

Two lottery picks (2022,2023) plus one or both of Huberdeau or Dubois should be more than enough to assemble a strong core.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The difference is that he has gotten to see his youth play in the NHL the last 2 seasons and has an idea of what he needed to support them. With the exception of Suzuki and Caulfield, Montreal is not at that stage yet. The spots to evaluate the youth are stil being filled by the bad contracts they inherited.

Gallagher is a bad contract. Price is a bad contract. However, Hoffman, Byron, Drouin, Dadonov, Dvorak, Allen are not bad contracts. We just have a few too many.

You don't have the same plan as Hughes and Gorton and not sure you don't realize it yet. They are in no rush to rush younger players on the roster. You can evaluate players in the AHL and with some call ups during the season.

The Habs do not have plans to play more than half our roster as rookies. Clearly! I understand their approach and my strategy narrative falls in line with Hughes and Gorton. However, our fan base is emotionally attached to tank, tank, tank like the Coyotes.

Also, some of those bad contracts got us value in trades and there is more to come at the next deadline. I don't consider this a bad situation. The only two contracts I'm concerned about are Gallagher and Price cause they are higher AAV's with some term left.

Of course not, but if the deal is built around dvorak, then we sure have to make it happen even if the prospect is an a prospect not named ghule.

Agreed. I stand firm but my offer gets less over time. Panthers 1st with Kidney type prospect. Then salary in needs to match salary out. They have to take two of Hoffman, Drouin, Dvorak, Armia, Dadonov. And I'm sure they take Dvorak cause after Dubois is traded, their center depth is thin after Scheifele.

 

[tazsub3]

Gallagher is a bad contract. Price is a bad contract. However, Hoffman, Byron, Drouin, Dadonov, Dvorak, Allen are not bad contracts. We just have a few too many.

You don't have the same plan as Hughes and Gorton and not sure you don't realize it yet. They are in no rush to rush younger players on the roster. You can evaluate players in the AHL and with some call ups during the season.

The Habs do not have plans to play more than half our roster as rookies. Clearly! I understand their approach and my strategy narrative falls in line with Hughes and Gorton. However, our fan base is emotionally attached to tank, tank, tank like the Coyotes.

Also, some of those bad contracts got us value in trades and there is more to come at the next deadline. I don't consider this a bad situation. The only two contracts I'm concerned about are Gallagher and Price cause they are higher AAV's with some term left.



Agreed. I stand firm but my offer gets less over time. Panthers 1st with Kidney type prospect. Then salary in needs to match salary out. They have to take two of Hoffman, Drouin, Dvorak, Armia, Dadonov. And I'm sure they take Dvorak cause after Dubois is traded, their center depth is thin after Scheifele.

that florida i am getting attached to it by the day.... I see the panthers imploding. I dont know why but i think they lost their heart and soul and might actually struggle

 

[Habs Halifax]

What are you talking about?

He has openly stated that he is intending to hit free agency in 2024, and from everything we can gather, Montreal seems to have an inside track as apparently, according to his words, he would like to start a family specifically in Montreal and that would happen during the next big contract he will sign.

Of course the money has to match, but that would be the case if he was traded too.

Do you think Dubois's contract as a UFA in 2+ years is the same as what it would be today in a sign/trade? I don't.

I prefer to trade Panthers 1st and Kidney (with Dvorak and Armia) today and get Dubois at $7M or $7.5M extended vs waiting for 2 years and the cap is much higher and he might ask for $8M-$9M range. If he asks for $8M+ in the sign/trade today, I pass.