HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #80

[Adam Michaels]

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Dubois said he went to the draft because he's a hockey fan and lives 15 min from the Bell Center

 

[Habs Halifax]

that florida i am getting attached to it by the day.... I see the panthers imploding. I dont know why but i think they lost their heart and soul and might actually struggle

It's possible but we talked about the Canes last year too. "roster turnover" narratives.

Panthers did not get better but they didn't get worse. I do wonder about Huberdeau's play making being taken out and inserting the power forward Tkachuk who is not as good as a play maker but brings value in other areas.

Multiple Injuries? OK, lets say the pick is 5-10 range. I still think Dubois in his prime is worth more or its close. People need to consider that draft picks have value but we are not trading for a declining asset in Dubois. We are trading for his prime years and even at 5-10 range, the chances are very, very, very small.

Maybe it's possible both the Jets and Habs agreed to delay the trade until in season. Dach, Panthers faith, Dvorak production, Armia and others production, etc. Too many unanswered questions

Says the right things you would expect him to say

 

[le_sean]

Didn’t ask for a trade but has pretty much made it clear he has no intention of staying in Winnipeg.

And you didn’t get a box for family and friends just to watch a draft. I don’t buy that

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[McGees]

Huberdeau I take as a guy that every time he talks to QC media he tries to coddle and tells them ya I want to play there one day, but doesn’t really mean it and is happy being in poop markets where he can go to the store unknown and work on his tan. Maybe maybe when he’s 38 he can milk out a final contract for fun to make his dad proud before he retires but it ain’t really A DREAM he will do everything to make happen.

There is a difference between him and a Dubois.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

From the interview, it's pretty clear Dubois intends on leaving the jets once he becomes ufa

 

[Richiebottles]

My take: He was hoping a deal would be done and it didn't get done.

Signed a 1 Year RFA deal and still hopes to be traded.

Probably didn't put in an official trade request as it would look bad since he did it in CBJ.

 

[absolute garbage]

Why do I want Dubois now? I would use his $6M salary this season but also get an extension in place or the deal falls through. Dubois for $7M or $7.5M for the next 7 years after this one. If you wait for two more years, I have little faith he will sign for $7M or $7.5M with a higher cap. $8M+ is where I probably say no thank you... even it he is "free to acquire".

Sorry but that makes no sense to me. Signing him to a long term extension in 2023 as RFA vs 2024 as UFA seems like a moot point. Even if we say you could get him a little bit cheaper in 2023, the difference is going to be very small and you are giving up a lot of future assets to get that. Plus, you would also improve the team thus hurting the tank.

Can you just admit that you simply don't have the patience?

Do you think Dubois's contract as a UFA in 2+ years is the same as what it would be today in a sign/trade? I don't.

I prefer to trade Panthers 1st and Kidney (with Dvorak and Armia) today and get Dubois at $7M or $7.5M extended vs waiting for 2 years and the cap is much higher and he might ask for $8M-$9M range.

Dubois is already signed. So you're looking at 2023 summer, not "today".

Like I said, I don't think the difference is going to meaningful. Keeping the 1st rounder and seeing what comes out of it (again, there's chance it could be higher than expected) than save maybe something like 500k/yr is a no-brainer to me.

 

[le_sean]

Living 15 minutes from the Bell Centre seems to be quite the indication of what he ultimately wants too.

 

[Richiebottles]

I'm loooovinggggg this Presser.

 

[Habs13]

Players are humans with life plans, priorities, etc. I've already posted the quote from Dubois where he talks about that contracts aren't about the immediate but where you see your life down the road. In short, if you want a player, telling him to sit on his for two years because you don't want to deal some assets is terrible management and I suspect that's why the Canadiens are/were still trying to work on a deal for Dubois after the draft. If a trade can't be agreed to because the ask from ridiculous is one thing but if a trade can't be agreed to because Winnipeg just keeps receiving laughable offers from Montreal because We CaN GeT HiM FoR FrEe in 2 yEaRs, do you really think that's a positive thing for your relationship with Dubois? That stuff is important. This isn't PlayStation - the phrase people loved to bag Bergevin for.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Paying for something, and at a high price, for something you know you can have for free while retaining the pieces it cost to get ...IS... bad asset management.

Dubois had no contract and therefore was free to talk to anyone. If he and Hughes spoke, and Dubois is cool with coming to Montreal in two years, you would be an absolute idiot to give up what it would cost to trade for him.

Especially given that the Habs don't have six million bucks in cap space right now.

Dubois spoke about future and doing what was best for him... that doesn't mean coming home to Montreal in two years is not exactly what he wants.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

My take: He was hoping a deal would be done and it didn't get done.

Signed a 1 Year RFA deal and still hopes to be traded.

Probably didn't put in an official trade request as it would look bad since he did it in CBJ.

That seems like the pretty obvious conclusion to me. Of course he'll play in Winnipeg but he's obviously hoping to get traded if it can happen.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Sorry but that makes no sense to me. Signing him to a long term extension in 2023 as RFA vs 2024 as UFA seems like a moot point. Even if we say you could get him a little bit cheaper in 2023, the difference is going to be very small and you are giving up a lot of future assets to get that. Plus, you would also improve the team thus hurting the tank.

Can you just admit that you simply don't have the patience?

Dubois is already signed. So you're looking at 2023 summer, not "today".

Like I said, I don't think the difference is going to meaningful. Keeping the 1st rounder and seeing what comes out of it (again, there's chance it could be higher than expected) than save maybe something like 500k/yr is a no-brainer to me.

It don't make sense to you cause you likely don't believe in a $90M cap for 24/25 and think today's signing rates for UFA won't change in the next 2 years

Can you admit that you have an opinion and so do I. You won't convince me to change my mind and you think you are going to find something to tell me that I already didn't think about. That's likely false.

You can sign anybody with less than 1 year of expiry left and once free agency hit, anybody with a 1 year deal can sign an extension. So yeah, you can trade for Dubois today and have an extension in place. I just told you something you were unaware of so you probably don't know as much as I do . There is a method to my apparent madness that you likely think it is.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

From the interview, it's pretty clear Dubois intends on leaving the jets once he becomes ufa

what made you realize that? The interview today or the fact he literally said he was gonna leave in 2 years maximum?

 

[le_sean]

Now talking about how his next contract could take him to the end of his career and he has to think of his girlfriend and family. Just more fuel to the fire. Loving it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Huberdeau I take as a guy that every time he talks to QC media he tries to coddle and tells them ya I want to play there one day, but doesn’t really mean it and is happy being in poop markets where he can go to the store unknown and work on his tan. Maybe maybe when he’s 38 he can milk out a final contract for fun to make his dad proud before he retires but it ain’t really A DREAM he will do everything to make happen.

There is a difference between him and a Dubois.

View attachment 572408

I think the biggest factor is team direction. Does Tavares even go to Toronto if they don't have a strong young core?

Habs young core is something others are taking notice and it started against the Pens in the play in playoffs. It has only gotten better with time and players who are thinking Montreal will consider us. Plus we have more cap space moving forward than some think we do. It's this season where it's not ideal and we have lots of information we are going to learn about our team in this next season.

So I'm steering clear of Huberdeau and Dubois only using the Habs as "contract leverage". The Habs circumstances have changed with a good young core and new management

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I think the biggest factor is team direction. Does Tavares even go to Toronto if they don't have a strong young core?

Habs young core is something others are taking notice and it started against the Pens in the play in playoffs. It has only gotten better with time and players who are thinking Montreal will consider us. Plus we have more cap space moving forward than some think we do. It's this season where it's not ideal and we have lots of information we are going to learn about our team in this next season.

So I'm steering clear of Huberdeau and Dubois only using the Habs as "contract leverage". The Habs circumstances have changed with a good young core and new management

No.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Now talking about how his next contract could take him to the end of his career and he has to think of his girlfriend and family. Just more fuel to the fire. Loving it.

$7M max AAV he we go!

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I couldn't disagree with you more. Paying for something, and at a high price, for something you know you can have for free while retaining the pieces it cost to get ...IS... bad asset management.

Dubois had no contract and therefore was free to talk to anyone. If he and Hughes spoke, and Dubois is cool with coming to Montreal in two years, you would be an absolute idiot to give up what it would cost to trade for him.

Especially given that the Habs don't have six million bucks in cap space right now.

Dubois spoke about future and doing what was best for him... that doesn't mean coming home to Montreal in two years is not exactly what he wants.

You don't get what I'm talking about. I'm saying that lowballing Winnipeg because we can get him for two years is free because you're essentially telling Dubois you don't value him enough to actually work at getting him here. That's not good optics. Getting Dubois as a UFA in two years should be the accepted compromise from both parties, not the expectation. Does that make more sense?

If people think sign him in two years for free is as easy and simple as it sounds, why is Hughes trying to trade for him right now? Shouldn't you all be criticizing him for it?

Not to mention that there is value to getting Dubois now as opposed to two years such as settling him in when we're not contending, etc. If you want a good player, trying to game arrivals is dumb as f***. Just go get him.

 

[Miller Time]

Best case Habs scenario...

Sign Hubs as UFA next summer
Sign PLD as UFA summer after that

Both getting "fair" market value/term (somewhere btw team friendly & market premium, based on rising cap & their respective performance level going into ufa).

Keep all our prospect/pick assets to have a large enough pool of cost controlled ELC/RFA talent that signing them to long term 7-10M$ deals doesn't mess up our roster.

Fall 2024
Hubs, PLD, Suzuki, CC at ~32M$
Slaf & 1-2 more ELC fwds ~3M$
Gally/Anderson/Evans ~13M$
2-3 depth vets ~2M$
50M$

~35M for D/G
Guhle/Barron/Harris/Mailloux @ 8M$
2 top 4 vets @ 14M$
2 depth vets @ ~2M$

~11M$ for goalies

Gotta she'd Price's cap hit if he hasn't retired, but otherwise the rest of the roster shuffling is easy enough.

Gally/Anderson & cap going up informs how you fit RFA extensions for Slaf & other prospects that earn big deals beyond 2024

Very doable for a competent management group IF Hubs & PLD want to be a part of the party from 2024 & beyond... That group could easily cup contend for a bunch of years IF they get the right top pairing D & next goalie transition right.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Now talking about how his next contract could take him to the end of his career and he has to think of his girlfriend and family. Just more fuel to the fire. Loving it.

And you'll still have the Peter Griffins trying to somehow find reasons about how this is all a ploy to sign somewhere else or something dumb like that.

 

[Habs Halifax]

My take: He was hoping a deal would be done and it didn't get done.

Signed a 1 Year RFA deal and still hopes to be traded.

Probably didn't put in an official trade request as it would look bad since he did it in CBJ.

I love the one year deal. It still allows us to talk sign/trade with an extension. If he signed a 2 year RFA deal, I'd have less interest cause I'd be afraid of the leverage he would have over us with a higher cap in 2 years time.

I want Dubois but I want these things as well
* Futures no greater than Panthers 1st and Kidney
* Salary in needs to match salary out. Dvorak and Armia come to my mind.
* I'll take the $6M AAV this season but I want a 7x7 or 7x7.5 extension in place before the deal is official.

Dubois to Montreal is not going away. However, one area I have my mind on is what is Sakic up to. Still lingering around waiting to see what Kadri does and is his plan B... Dubois? Does Dubois change his mind and sign long term with the Avs?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Best case Habs scenario...

Sign Hubs as UFA next summer
Sign PLD as UFA summer after that

Both getting "fair" market value/term (somewhere btw team friendly & market premium, based on rising cap & their respective performance level going into ufa).

Keep all our prospect/pick assets to have a large enough pool of cost controlled ELC/RFA talent that signing them to long term 7-10M$ deals doesn't mess up our roster.

Fall 2024
Hubs, PLD, Suzuki, CC at ~32M$
Slaf & 1-2 more ELC fwds ~3M$
Gally/Anderson/Evans ~13M$
2-3 depth vets ~2M$
50M$

~35M for D/G
Guhle/Barron/Harris/Mailloux @ 8M$
2 top 4 vets @ 14M$
2 depth vets @ ~2M$

~11M$ for goalies

Gotta she'd Price's cap hit if he hasn't retired, but otherwise the rest of the roster shuffling is easy enough.

Gally/Anderson & cap going up informs how you fit RFA extensions for Slaf & other prospects that earn big deals beyond 2024

Very doable for a competent management group IF Hubs & PLD want to be a part of the party from 2024 & beyond... That group could easily cup contend for a bunch of years IF they get the right top pairing D & next goalie transition right.

My advice is to play with the armchair GM tool on cap friendly. It's wicket and calculates all the cap for you while also having any buyouts or carried forward ELC bonuses.

Personally, we do have room for both Dubois and Huberdeau with expiring contracts to come. Price is a wild card in terms of him playing vs not playing. If he plays, he's still effective. If he don't, we have loads or more cap space to use. In some degree, I consider it a win/win situation

 

[Richiebottles]

I love the one year deal. It still allows us to talk sign/trade with an extension. If he signed a 2 year RFA deal, I'd have less interest cause I'd be afraid of the leverage he would have over us with a higher cap in 2 years time.

I want Dubois but I want these things as well
* Futures no greater than Panthers 1st and Kidney
* Salary in needs to match salary out. Dvorak and Armia come to my mind.
* I'll take the $6M AAV this season but I want a 7x7 or 7x7.5 extension in place before the deal is official.

Dubois to Montreal is not going away. However, one area I have my mind on is what is Sakic up to. Still lingering around waiting to see what Kadri does and is his plan B... Dubois? Does Dubois change his mind and sign long term with the Avs?

I agree, but seeing what happened with the Tkachuk situation and the Blue management + fans saying 'We can get him for free' is a bad approach.

If you like the player, go get him and sign him long term, even if it costs assets.