HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #80

[DAChampion]

Because it makes no sense. You don’t get players who stop you from being bad enough to get elite players in key positions. You have to build the middle of the ice first. Otherwise you won’t fill the team properly. You have to draft elite centers and it has to happen at the top of the draft. Huberdeau is old enough that if we don’t get it right, we’ll be repeating the cycle all over again.


You can see my previous post.

Again:

Shouldn't two lottery picks (2022 and 2023) be enough?

 

[Habs Halifax]

what are you smoking? he got 14 points last season, his salary next season is 4.8 millions

The ripple effects to our disaster season last year affected many players... Caufield to start the season, Gallagher, Petry, Hoffman, Armia, Dvorak, and Anderson.

Armia is not just some 4th liner. This sounds like the same BS some said about Danault. Just some 3C and not worth more than $4M or $4.5M.

It's just too hard to move contracts at the moment. Patch gets traded for free is proof. That don't mean Armia is a 4th liner cause he's hard to move.

 

[Weltschmerz]

Dubois and Hurbedeau will never play for the habs
These Francophones say all the right things , how they love the habs and it’s their dream to play for them but when they get a chance they go anywhere but Montreal

they would love to play "at home" but they will go after the money

 

[DAChampion]

Dubois and Hurbedeau will never play for the habs
These Francophones say all the right things , how they love the habs and it’s their dream to play for them but when they get a chance they go anywhere but Montreal

Dubois and Huberdeau are their own person's, they won't necessarily do what Briere did just because they have the same ethnicity.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Dubois and Hurbedeau will never play for the habs
These Francophones say all the right things , how they love the habs and it’s their dream to play for them but when they get a chance they go anywhere but Montreal

The past is not the future. You may be right or you may be wrong. Team direction is a major factor and the Habs have not had a future direction like this for many years. New management and new coach who is very well respected. Things have changed so sticking with the same old, guys won't sign with the Habs and are only using the Habs is old news.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I wonder if there are any discussions between Montreal and Calgary regarding Josh Anderson. We know Calgary pursued him heavily when he was in Columbus. With Tkachuk traded, they may want to replace some of his physicality.

 

[Weltschmerz]

The ripple effects to our disaster season last year affected many players... Caufield to start the season, Gallagher, Petry, Hoffman, Armia, Dvorak, and Anderson.

Armia is not just some 4th liner. This sounds like the same BS some said about Danault. Just some 3C and not worth more than $4M or $4.5M.

It's just too hard to move contracts at the moment. Patch gets traded for free is proof. That don't mean Armia is a 4th liner cause he's hard to move.

He got 14 points the season before as well, never got more than 30. I get why people like him, when he was in the AHL with Buffalo I watched him when he had a great game, was sure he was gonna be a star.
At the end of the AHL season it was his only game like that though

 

[Habs Halifax]

they would love to play "at home" but they will go after the money

Maybe but we don't need to fall for that. Habs have some leverage here too with a team in the right direction and players/coaches/management that other players likely want to be a part of.

So yeah, lets say we can get into a sign/trade with Dubois but then he asks for $8M+. I decline.

So yeah, lets say Huberdeau will only sign if it's $10M+. I decline.

Hold the line with our youth movement but if Dubois and Huberdeau really want to play for the Habs, leave a little on the table to join us and lets strategize on our chances at competing for a cup with good cap management. Regardless, both players are going to be set for life after their next deals. Both are getting $7M+ for 7 years. $50M vs $60M. If you insist on $60M+ and max AAV, sign that with someone else please.

 

[Milhouse40]

Dubois and Huberdeau are their own person's, they won't necessarily do what Briere did just because they have the same ethnicity.

100% true.....but we also shouldn't draw too much conclusion about comments made through the medias.
Some are acting like Dubois will only play for one team in the NHL and all the other 31 are yuck.....this is so far from the truth and it's true for every single player in the NHL. They all have a favorite place but they also all have their 2nd and 3rd favorite place they would love to go.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He got 14 points the season before as well, never got more than 30. I get why people like him, when he was in the AHL with Buffalo I watched him when he had a great game, was sure he was gonna be a star.
At the end of the AHL season it was his only game like that though

He's had some rough seasons but your also cherry picking the bad parts. What you should be saying is he has not played a full 82 game season and is injury prone like Byron.

You're also ignoring how he is being bounced all over the line-up. Habs have been guilty of it and that extends past Armia.

He's not just some 4th liner. That is gross ignorance. Difficult contract to move yes but that's about flat cap more than anything else.

 

[Weltschmerz]

Maybe but we don't need to fall for that. Habs have some leverage here too with a team in the right direction and players/coaches/management that other players likely want to be a part of.

So yeah, lets say we can get into a sign/trade with Dubois but then he asks for $8M+. I decline.

So yeah, lets say Huberdeau will only sign if it's $10M+. I decline.

Hold the line with our youth movement but if Dubois and Huberdeau really want to play for the Habs, leave a little on the table to join us and lets strategize on our chances at competing for a cup with good cap management. Regardless, both players are going to be set for life after their next deals. Both are getting $7M+ for 7 years. $50M vs $60M. If you insist on $60M+ and max AAV, sign that with someone else please.

That's what I expect, my guess is Dubois says he wants to be an UFA in 2 years is because (as you always say) the cap is gonna go up and he is getting way less if he signs long term now.

And Huberdeau what happend speaks for itself, he has a first talk with Zito about an extension and is waiting for an offer and they trade him as soon as they can.

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Semantics. He wasn't an established player, he was a prospect. Who was also traded for an older asset.

If we assume that Suzuki plateaus as a 60 point guy, you really want to spend another 8M for a similar player? I don't think that's a recipe for success. I don't think Suzuki was given that money for being a 60 point player, they are hoping for more. For Dubois that seems like the high point.

Dubois just turned 24. No reason to believe, he already plateaued.
Dubois has scored/pace for around 60 pts in 3 of the last 4 years. 60 pts is not the high point for Dubois.

Even if he does not improve on that number, a 24-year-old 6'2 200+lbs center that plays a power game and scores 30 goals and 60 pts is extremely valuable.
Tkachuk who just had a career-high of 67 pts signed for 8.2 M.

Also, you would be getting Dubois best years in the duration of the contract. If he signs next summer, he will be 31 years old in the last year of his contract.
There isn't much risk in giving that contract.

Besides, it's not like we have anyone else that will need that money. Suzuki and Caufield are the only ones in the system that we know will sign a big contract. Maybe Slaf, but that would be in 3+ years.

 

[Weltschmerz]

He's had some rough seasons but your also cherry picking the bad parts. What you should be saying is he has not played a full 82 game season and is injury prone like Byron.

You're also ignoring how he is being bounced all over the line-up. Habs have been guilty of it and that extends past Armia.

He's not just some 4th liner. That is gross ignorance. Difficult contract to move yes but that's about flat cap more than anything else.

Him beeing injury prone is not really a plus. Thats also part of the reason why he is bouncing around.

He is just lacks consistency, it's not even that he is not trying, but somehow something always gets in his way.
A player where you always hope he puts it all together but it never happened.

And the Jets let him go before, why would they want him back now?

 

[Habs Halifax]

100% true.....but we also shouldn't draw too much conclusion about comments made through the medias.
Some are acting like Dubois will only play for one team in the NHL and all the other 31 are yuck.....this is so far from the truth and it's true for every single player in the NHL. They all have a favorite place but they also all have their 2nd and 3rd favorite place they would love to go.

Just cause there is a lots of chatter, it don't make it an obsession that we will trade for him no matter what.

If Dubois and the Jets can do a sign/trade with someone else, go right ahead. The word "if" has a meaning and it should not be ignored cause most of us are interested, but not desperate.

Dubois may only want to sign with the Habs. Why is this an impossible narrative?

Him beeing injury prone is not really a plus. Thas also part of the reason why he is bouncing around.

He is just lacks consistency, it's not even that he is not trying, but somehow something always gets in his way.
A player where you always hope he puts it all together but it never happened.

And the Jets let him go before, why would they want him back now?

Being injury prone is not a plus yes and I agree but it still don't mean his is a 4th line talent.

 

[schwang26]

They just traded for Matheson (28) and Dadonov (33)...ok you'll say that Dadonov was to get rid of Weber but still...they will get whoever they think will help no matter the age, hence why said that people run with their own narrative on here.

I should've specified forwards (I don't expect Dadanov to stay btw)

 

[absolute garbage]

99% sure eh? You sure? The rule is you can extend anybody with less than 1 year of expiry and that kicked in at the start of UFA earlier this month. I think you should drop your 99% to 1%. I'm pretty sure Dubois and his agent purposely took the qualifying offer cause if they didn't, it would go to arbitration and the Jets could possibly sign a 2 year deal. Dubois and his agent avoided it.

Dubois is close to Suzuki value. Both are basically 60 pts players before their prime years. So it's reasonable to expect more growth and 60-80 pts from both of them.

Dach may never be as good as Dubois. And I get the feeling you think we are going to draft a center who can easily be as good as Dubois? That's wishful thinking

That's true for players with existing contracts like Sergachev, but Dubois literally signed his new contract a couple of days ago and you're saying he could sign an extension today. Again, I'm not an CBA expert, but pretty sure you are very wrong here.

The difference is that Suzuki just finished his ELC while Dubois has already played 2 more years. So no, I don't think they both have same kind of "reasonable growth expectations" at this point. I think in 2 years we should know a lot more about what kind of player Suzuki will be too.

I think for a team in Montreal's position, wishful thinking at the draft table is much better than foregoing that and on top of it giving 7-8M for a 60p player.

 

[schwang26]

Dubois and Huberdeau are their own person's, they won't necessarily do what Briere did just because they have the same ethnicity.

It's more likely Dubois does than Huberdeau.

 

[Lockin17]

I say Habs need to stay on track and do a real rebuild.
Forget PLD and Huberdeau.
Need to get high picks in the 2023 draft. (3 x Top 15)
Dvorak + B+ prospect (Mysak) = could get us a mid-rank first pick (Detroit) (#15)
IF Drouin + 4th as a decent year at the trade line (Panther) = late 2rd (#58)
Dadonov (50% retained) trade line = late 2rd (EDM) (#62)
Edmundson = mid 2rd Anaheim (#47)
Hoffman/Armia + 4th = Future
So once again we end up having lots of picks.

ALL SPECULATION !!

MTL #4 Dalibor Dvorsky
Vancouver #14 Quentin Musty
Detroit #15 Cameron Allen
Panther #26
MTL #36
Anaheim #47 Scott Ratzlaff
Panthers #58
EDM #62 Danny Nelson
MTL #68

Trade #26 + #36 + #58 + #68 for Vancouver #14

That could possibly give us 3 top15
After this we have a great pool to start playing and getting experience to compete in 2024

Roy-Suzuki-Caufield
Slaf-Dvorsky-Mesar
Musty-Dach-Anderson
Kidney-Evans-Gallagher
Farrell-Beck-Ylonen

Ghule-Barron
Matheson-Allen
Harris-Savard
Mailloux-Hutson

Primeau - Ratzlaff (long term)

 

[Habs Halifax]

That's what I expect, my guess is Dubois says he wants to be an UFA in 2 years is because (as you always say) the cap is gonna go up and he is getting way less if he signs long term now.

And Huberdeau what happend speaks for itself, he has a first talk with Zito about an extension and is waiting for an offer and they trade him as soon as they can.

I think Dubois really does want to play for the Habs. It's possible he both wants to play for the Habs and also earn $8M+. But Hughes and Gorton have to agree with that cap hit first. So yeah, how bad do you really want to play for the Habs and at a time where our future is bright and MSL is a players coach? The Habs can use our leverage as well and if the player/agent pushes for max term and AAV, we really don't have to engage.

With Huberdeau? I'm not sure. There is less context to did into other than a comment or two over several years. It's also going to be his 30+ years which brings some risks on the back end of the 7 year term.

 

[Milhouse40]

Just cause there is a lots of chatter, it don't make it an obsession that we will trade for him no matter what.

If Dubois and the Jets can do a sign/trade with someone else, go right ahead. The word "if" has a meaning and it should not be ignored cause most of us are interested, but not desperate.

Dubois may only want to sign with the Habs. Why is this an impossible narrative?

I would consider it almost an impossible narrative for most players.....what happens if the Habs don't need him or simply don't have the money to sign him....he'll stop playing hockey?

 

[schwang26]

Maybe but we don't need to fall for that. Habs have some leverage here too with a team in the right direction and players/coaches/management that other players likely want to be a part of.

So yeah, lets say we can get into a sign/trade with Dubois but then he asks for $8M+. I decline.

So yeah, lets say Huberdeau will only sign if it's $10M+. I decline.

Hold the line with our youth movement but if Dubois and Huberdeau really want to play for the Habs, leave a little on the table to join us and lets strategize on our chances at competing for a cup with good cap management. Regardless, both players are going to be set for life after their next deals. Both are getting $7M+ for 7 years. $50M vs $60M. If you insist on $60M+ and max AAV, sign that with someone else please.

I think the home town discounts are rare, especially in Canada. Dubois is still going to expect market value.

 

[salbutera]

This is not correct.

For Canadian players RCA only defers portion of payment till retirement - thought being less income at retirement reduces tax burden. There is zero bonus payout advantage taxation wise since Revenue Canada views bonus as taxable income

For American players all bonus $ are 100% tax exempt for a handful of states (usual suspects Az, Fla, Tx, TN), and no CDN tax based on US / Canada tax treaty - IRS and certain states do not view bonus as salary thus not taxable income

Hence RCA is all but meaningless for Canadian players but a bonanza for US players or in the case of Huberdeau a Fla resident who’s a native Québécois

 

[Habs Halifax]

That's true for players with existing contracts like Sergachev, but Dubois literally signed his new contract a couple of days ago and you're saying he could sign an extension today. Again, I'm not an CBA expert, but pretty sure you are very wrong here.

The difference is that Suzuki just finished his ELC while Dubois has already played 2 more years. So no, I don't think they both have same kind of "reasonable growth expectations" at this point. I think in 2 years we should know a lot more about what kind of player Suzuki will be too.

I think for a team in Montreal's position, wishful thinking at the draft table is much better than foregoing that and on top of it giving 7-8M for a 60p player.

Once again, the main rule is you can sign an extension when it's less than 1 year of expiry. Is there some side rule where you can't cause he accepted a qualifying offer? I'm not aware of it and don't see any reason why it would block it? Are you still 99% confident?

Suzuki has played less games but Dubois is only 1 year older. Saying Dubois is going to cap out at 60 pts and Suzuki is going to reach 80 or more is bias. Suzuki has better playoff stats yes but these two are close in potential. I would peg both of them in their prime as 60-80 pts and it's possible Suzuki has a bit more offensive upside and could get to the 80-90 range where Dubois end up 70-80. At the end of the day, the year/year point totals will fluctuate depending on how they are surrounded.

 

[schwang26]

I say Habs need to stay on track and do a real rebuild.
Forget PLD and Huberdeau.
Need to get high picks in the 2023 draft. (3 x Top 15)
Dvorak + B+ prospect (Mysak) = could get us a mid-rank first pick (Detroit) (#15)
IF Drouin + 4th as a decent year at the trade line (Panther) = late 2rd (#58)
Dadonov (50% retained) trade line = late 2rd (EDM) (#62)
Edmundson = mid 2rd Anaheim (#47)
Hoffman/Armia + 4th = Future
So once again we end up having lots of picks.

ALL SPECULATION !!

MTL #4 Dalibor Dvorsky
Vancouver #14 Quentin Musty
Detroit #15 Cameron Allen
Panther #26
MTL #36
Anaheim #47 Scott Ratzlaff
Panthers #58
EDM #62 Danny Nelson
MTL #68

Trade #26 + #36 + #58 + #68 for Vancouver #14

That could possibly give us 3 top15
After this we have a great pool to start playing and getting experience to compete in 2024

Roy-Suzuki-Caufield
Slaf-Dvorsky-Mesar
Musty-Dach-Anderson
Kidney-Evans-Gallagher
Farrell-Beck-Ylonen

Ghule-Barron
Matheson-Allen
Harris-Savard
Mailloux-Hutson

Primeau - Ratzlaff (long term)

You seriously think they're competing with that lineup? And that goaltending? Not to mention that they can't afford a 6.5 million dollar player on the 4th line. If that's where Gallagher is in 2024, he'll be somewhere else.