HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #79

[417]

But those guys are motivated to play for another contract and to win a Cup. Plus there’s a chance they re-sign with the team that acquired them. Different circumstances.

I don't see how any of this, doesn't apply for Dubois also.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

I don't see how any of this, doesn't apply for Dubois also.

It does. He will have to keep improving to maximize his next contract and do well enough that the Habs will still be interested in 2 years.

 

[DailyKaizen]

I don’t have an issue with him wanting to be here but while he’s under contract with another team, seems to me it’s unprofessional for any player to openly divulge and discuss information that is detrimental to a team that he owes allegiance to.

How would we feel if we kept hearing that Suzuki wants to play for the Leafs or that Caufield would much prefer a US-based team and did so repeatedly. Would that not undermine the character component that Hughes has so often reiterated, is important to his team building strategy?

Smacks of a spoiled child syndrome. I wonder how his teammates in Winnipeg are taking it. Imagine he’s still on the team in October — who’s going to want to go to war with someone like that?

Did we see a similar situation with Matt Duchene?

 

[BaseballCoach]

On the main board, someone posted Barzal in the case the Islanders can't resign Barzal. Thought this deal seemed fairly reasonable.

To Canadiens
* Pierre-Luc Dubois

To Jets
* Christian Dvorak
* Matthew Barzal
* Luke Tuch
* 3rd Round Pick, 2024 (NYI)

To Islanders
* 1st Round Pick, 2023 (FLA)
* Josh Anderson
* Chaz Lucius

Personally, I don't really care about getting Dubois or not... but if he wants to play here, I guess that's a huge bonus especially if he'd sign a more team friendly deal than he would otherwise.

It's pretty expensive for MTL in this scenario, but it also gives us some cap relief which is important. And while Tuch is still a solid prospect, he's not a can't miss prospect so I don't mind including him considering how deep our prospect pool is.

Cap relief is trading Drouin, Byron, Armia, Hoffman or Savard.

Trading Dvorak and Anderson and a prospect and a 1st is not "cap relief". That's an attempt to woo Winnipeg.

In my world, it's a good player (Dach or Dvorak or Anderson) OR the Florida 1st, plus a prospect or lesser player, plus a cap relief contract of Winnipeg's choice.

There are only so many teams with cap space, so if we're dealing with Winnipeg they need to take one of the overpayment contracts for a player they can still use for 1, 2 or 3 years (their choice0.

 

[Whalers Fan]

Can't wait for Dubois to fleece us for 8x11 million on free market after he puts up b2b 70 point seasons

First of all, as a UFA Dubois could not sign with Montreal for 8 years. Second of all, if he asks for that much money I doubt he plays here. I cannot see Hughes agreeing to such an amount.

 

[Archijerej]

Who cares? There are 5 better centres than him in the 2023 draft. He either comes cheap or he can go somewhere else.

Don't be ridiculous.

 

[le_sean]

I don't see how any of this, doesn't apply for Dubois also.

If he’s motivated to play for the Habs, he’s going to take a discount to make it work. Also can go to arbitration the next two years with the teams that actually have him. No organization wants to go through that.

Teams also love culture. If you have a guy in the dressing room that everyone else knows he doesn’t really want to be there, how do you think that resonates?

 

[Sterling Archer]

How are the Habs hosed?

Because of all the pieces, Habs get the least valuable and give up a ton.

 

[yianik]

I see all these posts about protected firsts, if traded. So if it's top 10 we can keep it. Now maybe for 2023 that means something, buy not always.

Top 10 protected means we can chose to keep that pick if it's top 10, but it also means the other team gets our 1st the following year, no matter where it's at. So if we are bad for multiple years , that can bite us.

Example. Ottawa traded with Colorado, ( Duchesne ) and traded awY it's 2018 1st as part of it. But top 10 protected. Ottawa was to pick 4OA and kept the pick and cose Tkachuk. Following year Ottawas first was Colorados , no matter what, and the Sens finished last in the league. Fortunately for Ottawa, their pick dropped to no.4.

I think we should keep all 1sts until after the lottery of a particular year, for the time being.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Teams give up more than that at the deadline for players they know might play 18is regular season games and a playoff run.

What makes you think they won't for a guy they have 2 years of control over and the ability to perhaps convince him to stay?

There's kind of a beautiful dichotomy to this trade because...

On one hand, the Habs should absolutely not give up significant assets for a player they know they can sign for free in 2 years

On the other, the Jets should not assume another team wouldn't give up significant assets to land Dubois even if it is for only 2 years.

I think both of these elements = ain't nothing happening any time soon. They'll continue to play chicken until the next pressure point.

Isn’t this pretty much the same thing we just went threw with Drouin? Local boy with entitlement problems that’s going to cost way more in a trade and likely a contract then he’s actually worth? This is the second team Dubois has done this too. It’s not a good look and it makes me uneasy. We don’t need two 60 point centers in our top 6. We’re eventually going to need someone more impactful.

 

[417]

If he’s motivated to play for the Habs, he’s going to take a discount to make it work. Also can go to arbitration the next two years with the teams that actually have him. No organization wants to go through that.

Teams also love culture. If you have a guy in the dressing room that everyone else knows he doesn’t really want to be there, how do you think that resonates?

Discount? Why?

He's hitting free agency in his prime at 26...that ain't happening.

As for the culture...im sure this kind of stuff is common

 

[JoelWarlord]

Huberdeau is too old for the rebuild window, he's going to be mid-30s by the time the rest of the team is ready. He would take most of the cap space left too.

If 29 year old Huberdeau is too old for our rebuild window because he'll be in his mid-30s, it stands to reason that you think Montreal is 4-5 years away from doing anything of note. In that case, should we even keep Suzuki? If we're 4-5 years away he'll be 27-28 and 2-3 years from UFA by that time, wouldn't it be better to get younger players for him?

I'm not being cheeky, I'm asking a serious question. If it is your genuine belief that the Habs are at least 5 years away, it is only logical to think very seriously about trading Suzuki ASAP to find a player(s) who will instead be age 22-25 in 5 years, or to think about Caufield given we only have 5 more years of guaranteed team control. If your answer is no that's fine and there's arguments to keep them even if you think we'll need to be bad for 4-5 more years, but if you truly think the Habs are going nowhere for 5 years you have to think about more than just whether or not to sign Huberdeau.

This dogmatic obsession with a rebuild that the team never agreed was even a thing is getting out of hand. There is more to building a team than being shit for years and only drafting. You need to adjust for things that come along. If you have a chance to get a guy like Huberdeau for free it would be beyond stupid to pass that up.

It's actually crazy lol...you have people who want the team to ignore opportunities to get better, just so they can get worse.

Agreed, and the other thing I don't get is why people think this team needs to be shit for 5 years. There's a bunch of contracts going away over the next 3 years, Price is on the road to LTIR, Anderson I don't love that deal but it's tradeable for value at any time, and Gallagher is pretty much the only long-term deal that might be tricky to navigate. Otherwise we're pretty much set up to churn all the bad vets over the next couple seasons and can probably trade some of those guys a year early once they get closer to expiring, with a good mix of prospects on the way including guys from 2018-2020 that shouldn't be too far away.

I think the depth of our system is really being underappreciated too. We don't have the depth at the top end yet, but look at how much Detroit/Columbus just spent on Chiarot/Gudbranson because they didn't like being pushed around and wanted to get out of the basement. Guys like Fairbrother/Xhekaj aren't going to delight fans dreaming on a future core, but it's a big advantage if it allows Montreal to fill that roster hole without spending in the UFA market. I think Montreal will be able to build from the bottom up at the same time as they build from the top down, and that will help a lot since the depth will already be in place at the time the top of the lineup starts to really pop. Yzerman would kill for a Jake Evans and a Jordan Harris right now.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Teams give up more than that at the deadline for players they know might play 18is regular season games and a playoff run.

What makes you think they won't for a guy they have 2 years of control over and the ability to perhaps convince him to stay?

The difference is that at the deadline, the current year dollars are not that relevant. The gamble is a pick or prospect versus winning a Cup.

Taking on an expensive guy for 2 years not knowing what your situation is going to be in terms of Stanley Cup potential, or whether the player will disappoint, is much harder to fit.

Pacioretty, a proven 30+ goal scorer, just went for nothing with one full year left, whereas at the deadline, he would have fetched a pretty penny .... If he were having a good year.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It is too late for Winnipeg to choose arbitration. The QO was 1 year at $6.5M. If PLD chooses arbitration, Winnipeg can decide if the award will be for one year or two. I assume they will pick two years, so there could not be a deal with Montreal until July 2023. Even if there is a one-year award, or PLD accepts the QO, PLD can't be extended before January 1, which will also hold up any trade. The deadline for Dubois to decide whether he accepts the offer or goes to arbitration is today. If he does neither, a trade of his rights is still possible, and if PLD chooses arbitration, only a sign and trade (on terms acceptable to Montreal) prior to the hearing date could get him to Montreal this coming year, assuming Montreal will not trade for him without being able to extend.

If an arbitrator gives Dubois Josh Norris money $8M, does Winnipeg pay or walk away?

If they pay, do Habs still want that trade or will they want retention? Or will the one year salary be accepted and a LT contract negotiated at an acceptable value or no-go?

If they go 2 years, I have less interest. I want to have Dubois from 24-30 at $7M ish vs 26-32 at $9M+. I'd be very worried if we traded for him and he had a 2 year deal in place. Yeah, the RFA contract is smaller but I don't really care about cap space during the rebuild... the cap space management after we exit the rebuild matters more and we would have to pay him or let him walk. I want to know now what he wants and I want the Habs to sign it.

I'm less interested with Dubois at $9M+ in two years when the cap is higher. I have my own personal strategy and it's to assemble a core through their prime with cap space management. Got to review timing of contracts and it's a big focus of mine.

Dubois wants to play for Montreal but lets say we wait till he is UFA or we trade for him and he already has a two year RFA deal in place. What he could ask for in 2 years scares me when the cap is likely around $90M for that 3rd season.

If it's a deal we can afford to give and we can get Dubois at 7x7 or 7x7.5. I'm very much interested. However, if the Jets ask too much and/or Dubois wants a max deal with the highest AAV possible, my interest fades away.

 

[Natey]

Cap relief is trading Drouin, Byron, Armia, Hoffman or Savard.

Trading Dvorak and Anderson and a prospect and a 1st is not "cap relief". That's an attempt to woo Winnipeg.

In my world, it's a good player (Dach or Dvorak or Anderson) OR the Florida 1st, plus a prospect or lesser player, plus a cap relief contract of Winnipeg's choice.

There are only so many teams with cap space, so if we're dealing with Winnipeg they need to take one of the overpayment contracts for a player they can still use for 1, 2 or 3 years (their choice0.

Savard is needed.

Hoffman... no one is taking that. Same with Armia.

Drouin is better to hang onto until the deadline.

 

[Runner77]

Did we see a similar situation with Matt Duchene?

Is that when he and Sakic butted heads? I don’t recall all the details but man did Sakic show a lot of fortitude by standing his ground under an onslaught of pressure.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Don't be ridiculous.

Bedard will be better. Fantilli, Yager and Dvorsky in the same range as Dubois. Ritchie had a very good rookie year. With Dubois questionable attitude hard to give up too much for him.
Edit: Forgot Carlsson. Probably in the top 5.

 

[yianik]

The rumored/speculated deal was 3 players: Anderson + Dvorak and mostly likely a prospect (I suspect it was Norlinder) and Chev either wanted more or he wanted to swap one of the player for another one.

If true, nice play by Chev to put the screws to HUGO as draft was in Montreal and the kid is Quebecois. But Hughes did not bite, he stood his ground. My guess is MB would have thrown in CC to get the big Quebecois 2C.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

I really have the feeling that Hughes made a really good offer a the draft for Dubois including the 13th overall. And then trading it for Dach was to get leverage on the situation. Winnipeg knew that Hughes had no choice to get a potential 2C for next season and maybe they tought Mtl would upgrade the trade offer for Dubois. Instead we traded for Dach and we have no more the necessity of Dubois. If we get it at a fait price, perfect. If not, too bad.

We still have the assets to make it done but Winnipeg is not in a situation where they can have a king ransom from us. And also from other teams because if its true that Dubois only want to play for Mtl, why would you overpay for Dubois.

So my trade offer would be :
Anderson or Dvorak (each one value is a 1st)
+
Florida 1st
+
A good prospect between maybe : Barron/Mailloux/Farrell/Mhysak/Harris/Xhekaj (Harris I would feel cheap...)
+
Paul Byron or Hoffman

And max a 4th or 5h pick.

Maybe its too much what Im proposing and Hoffman could be a Tatar for them.

Way too much for me. Hughes said the Habs are set at center. PLD is Winnipeg's problem.

 

[BaseballCoach]

If they go 2 years, I have less interest. I want to have Dubois from 24-30 at $7M ish vs 26-30 at $9M+.

I'm less interested with Dubois at $9M+ in two years when the cap is higher. I have my own personal strategy and it's to assemble a core through their prime with cap space management. Got to review timing of contracts and it's a big focus on mine.

Dubois wants to play for Montreal but lets say we wait till he is UFA or we trade for him and he already has a two year RFA deal in place. What he could ask for in 2 years scares me when the cap is likely around $90M for that 3rd season

I agree with your goal. If Dubois goes to UFA, we decide THEN what to do, not alter our plans NOW and wait for him.

While I like the idea of locking in a 2C as we build, and am not opposed to forgetting about a focus on Bedard, it isn't even my first priority. My first priority is a 1D.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

If they go 2 years, I have less interest. I want to have Dubois from 24-30 at $7M ish vs 26-32 at $9M+. I'd be very worried if we traded for him and he had a 2 year deal in place. Yeah, the RFA contract is smaller but I don't really care about cap space during the rebuild... the cap space management after we exit the rebuild matters more and we would have to pay him or let him walk. I want to know now what he wants and I want the Habs to sign it.

I'm less interested with Dubois at $9M+ in two years when the cap is higher. I have my own personal strategy and it's to assemble a core through their prime with cap space management. Got to review timing of contracts and it's a big focus of mine.

Dubois wants to play for Montreal but lets say we wait till he is UFA or we trade for him and he already has a two year RFA deal in place. What he could ask for in 2 years scares me when the cap is likely around $90M for that 3rd season.

If it's a deal we can afford to give and we can get Dubois at 7x7 or 7x7.5. I'm very much interested. However, if the Jets ask too much and/or Dubois wants a max deal with the highest AAV possible, my interest fades away.

Hopefully HuGo would not have any interest in trading for him unless he can sign him to a long term deal.

 

[themilosh]

That's an awful deal for the Habs to get rid of Gallagher's contract. I wouldn't trade Montreal's unprotected 1st alone for PLD. You are basically trading Caulfield to get rid of Gallagher's contract.

For PLD, a legit 1st line C or LW. And a 1st in 23, which could very well be a top 5, with some luck Bedard.

Sure CC is a star (as is PLD) but you have to offer something of value to WPG to accept. Gallagher would be a huge win to get rid of, imo PLD (who wants to play his whole career in mtl) will produce more with suzuki, we get bigger, and a 1st next year.

This is not a step backwards. I would say a perfect sidestep of talent, with massive upside and a cleansing of our books.

 

[417]

The difference is that at the deadline, the current year dollars are not that relevant. The gamble is a pick or prospect versus winning a Cup.

Taking on an expensive guy for 2 years not knowing what your situation is going to be in terms of Stanley Cup potential, or whether the player will disappoint, is much harder to fit.

Pacioretty, a proven 30+ goal scorer, just went for nothing with one full year left, whereas at the deadline, he would have fetched a pretty penny .... If he were having a good year.

Also a fair point...

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

For PLD, a legit 1st line C or LW. And a 1st in 23, which could very well be a top 5, with some luck Bedard.

Sure CC is a star (as is PLD) but you have to offer something of value to WPG to accept. Gallagher would be a huge win to get rid of, imo PLD (who wants to play his whole career in mtl) will produce more with suzuki, we get bigger, and a 1st next year.

This is not a step backwards. I would say a perfect sidestep of talent, with massive upside and a cleansing of our books.

...that is a truly horrific idea...truly...

 

[themilosh]

This is more realistic than all the garbage offers posted in here.

I just try to keep it real.. i dont think WPG would accept this offer, specifically bc of the 23 1st unprotected.

Fans are wayyy too enamoured with CC. He'll have a fine career, and i do like his positive personality.. but cmon here.. hes 5'6", and basically a perimeter scorer. I'm not thinking of regular season stats, im thinking of Stanley cup, and PLD is who id prefer to have lined up come playoffs.