HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #79

[Miller Time]

Would you welcome future considerations in exchange for taking any of these guys off our hands now or do you prefer to hold on to them until the trading deadline and see if you can’t squeeze a pick out of them?

depends... if there is a specific trade or signing opportunity for a long term fit (or even a short term fit that the coaching staff/management feel is key to installing/supporting the culture they are after) that makes that cap space vital to free up short-term, then of course it makes sense to do what it takes to free up that cap.

otherwise, considering the approach they took for the offseason, having cap space used up with UFA-to-be and then flipping them in-season if/when playoff focused teams come calling, is a better approach imo.

I suppose one could argue that having extra cap space to work with in-season to help facilitate an opportunity to pick up a targetted asset that comes available from a cap stretched team looking to free up room for other roster needs is of value, but there's always the option of relegating a player to the minors or trading them with some cap retained at that point.

 

[Miller Time]

That’s not the point. Gorton knows that size is important. It’s how the team he built took the next step. Heck it’s likely why he was fired. You don’t think he spoke about it with his associate GM in May, who in turn made those moves in July?

Look at how the Bruins were built. That has Gorton’s hands all over it too.

that's a whole lot of assuming you're doing, and you know what they say about making assumptions.

As you point out, he may well have been fired precisely because he didn't pull the trigger on making some of the roster changes his predecessor made. It's just as valid an assumption to make that he was fired because he wasn't as committed as his protegee to take the team in that direction... which is to say, neither assumption has much in the way of grounding.

the body of work that he led while he was in the GM chair with the Rangers certainly suggests that skating and skill were a bigger focus for him, as a GM, than the Reaves/Blais types... and thus far, don't think anyone could look at the roster moves the habs have made with him & his handpicked GM in place and argue that they are prioritizing size/physicality... if anything, we've seen more pure skill focused additions...

traded for Dach, Heineman, Barron, smilanic, schnarr, matheson, Dadonov... none of which play a physically imposing focused game
draft - Mesar, Hutson & Rohrer with 3 of first 5 picks... all smallish/skilled players.
extensions to Pitlick, Wideman, schuneman
signed stephens, bowey, richard

really, the only player/asset HuGo has added since January that plays a physical style of game is Pezetta.

Skating/Skill is clearly the first priority they are looking for, size where possible but hardly the priority, at least from the body of work we've seen thus far.

 

[Miller Time]

And Drury was a finalist for GM of the year...

perhaps you didn't notice that Blais played 14 games, Reaves avg. 10min/night lol


Panarin, Zibenejad, Fox... 3 best players (plus their goalie).

 

[beowulf]

So if Laine just got 4 years with an $8.7M aav, if the Habs did trade for Dubois you figure he would want something similar which is ouch.

 

[1909]

Those players had value. Drouin, Hoffman, Byron etc. have little if any value now. Hope for a good season from them so they can be traded by the next deadline.

Yes they had value.... For the Habs too.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

So if Laine just got 4 years with an $8.7M aav, if the Habs did trade for Dubois you figure he would want something similar which is ouch.

Suzuki is a better comparable

 

[larek]

Suzuki is a better comparable

That's less than 2 mill a season than Gallagher has for another 4 years
I would think with that comparison he probably should get about that much

 

[Richiebottles]

So if Laine just got 4 years with an $8.7M aav, if the Habs did trade for Dubois you figure he would want something similar which is ouch.

Doubt Dubois get's that high an AAV. Laine is a pure goal-scorer and that is a premium.

I would assume a 8 X 8.5 for Dubois because of his size & draft pedigree.

 

[larek]

Doubt Dubois get's that high an AAV. Laine is a pure goal-scorer and that is a premium.

I would assume a 8 X 8.5 for Dubois because of his size & draft pedigree.

That's pretty well the same and double the length lol

 

[salbutera]

So if Laine just got 4 years with an $8.7M aav, if the Habs did trade for Dubois you figure he would want something similar which is ouch.

I’m more intrigued by the fact CBJ expects to build their offense around W? Roslovic their 1C, and no cap space for Kadri (if that was even an option)

CBJ become a good landing spot for Dvorak?

 

[Richiebottles]

I’m more intrigued by the fact CBJ expects to build their offense around W? Roslovic their 1C, and no cap space for Kadri (if that was even an option)

CBJ become a good landing spot for Dvorak?

Who would we get in return?

 

[salbutera]

Who would we get in return?

No idea but Habs would need to take a contract back as CBJ have no cap space.

Or…. some type of a 3-way deal facilitation w Habs to acquire PLD? CBJ do have young prospects I’m sure Jets would like.

 

[BLONG7]

I could see a team making room to take on Anderson because of what he can bring

He will only go if there is a big overpayment..................we have so many guys making too much money but unfortunately those are the ones no one wants, unless we sweeten the deal.

 

[BaseballCoach]

No way the Habs retain on players on the last year of their contract. The goal is to get rid of guys with multiple years like Hoffman. Now if Habs had lots of cap room (Price on LTIR) they could retain on Dadonov for a good return.

Other way around. Retaining on multi-year contracts reduces the cap savings, and also uses up one of the three retention slots EVERY YEAR.

Retaining in the final year of an expiring contract usually increases the value of the draft pick or futures received.

We got extra value by retaining on Chiarot, Kulak and Lehkonen. We did not retain on Toffoli, who had an extra two years on his deal.

Retaining 50% on Dadonov this year might both increase the number of teams interested AND get us more in return. If he is scoring at a 25 goal pace and costs only $2.5M on the cap pro-rated for the time left in the season, we might get a first for him and for sure a second+.

Similar scenario for Drouin, though I think it is less likely he is attractive to teams. Byron is another candidate for retention if he comes back and is seen as a depth player for some teams.

In fact, Hughes had stated he would NOT retain on guys with multi-year deal, such as Petry, and indeed he did not in the Pittsburgh trade.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Jacob Trouba for Neal Pionk +1st round pick
Sam Reinhart for Devon Levi and 1st round pick
Jonathan Drouin for Mikhail Sergachev + 2nd round pick

Neither New York nor Florida were rebuilding with a strong need for top 10 players on their team which a first rounder can secure.

The Drouin trade you have wrong. They also sent us back a conditional pick - a 6th round pick if Segachev would not play 40 games, and a 2nd round pick if he would (and he did).

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Funnily enough, a Dubois trade would help with our cap for next season. The jets have a lot of cap space.

You include dvorak + one of Anderson/Drouin in the trade. The 2 combined have a 10 M cap hit.
You sign Dubois at 7.5M.
You use the remaining 2.5 M to sign Dach.

 

[Runner77]

Here’s where we stand, according to our good friend Maxim:



Hughes’ last conversation with Chevy was one week ago. He’s refusing to cough up three pieces. He’s only offering two and is letting his offer marinate.

Take it with the usual grain of salt.

 

[Milhouse40]

Neither New York nor Florida were rebuilding with a strong need for top 10 players on their team which a first rounder can secure.

The Drouin trade you have wrong. They also sent us back a conditional pick - a 6th round pick if Segachev would not play 40 games, and a 2nd round pick if he would (and he did).

NYR were rebuilding at the time of the trade.
Granted for the Drouin trade, still the cond. 2nd was there.

You don't get a top 10 player with a low 20's pick.....we were not even able to secure one with 2 3rd overall pick.

 

[Miller Time]

Here’s where we stand, according to our good friend Maxim:



Hughes’ last conversation with Chevy was one week ago. He’s refusing to cough up three pieces. He’s only offering two and is letting his offer marinate.

Take it with the usual grain of salt.

makes sense given Hughes' mo thus far. I doubt he will pay a "premium" for PLD.

what i'd be curious to know is what pieces he is willing to part with... I'd hope Suzuki/CC are off the table completely (and Slaf), but after that?

would he be willing to part with Guhle + Fla 1st (or a top-5-10 protected habs 1st)... guess that's pretty reasonable for us, especially with the LD prospect depth we have in place and the certainty of getting PLD long term.

As much as Chevy might be holding out for more than that, Guhle as a key piece coming back for the Jets makes a ton of sense. Kid has future top-pairing and team leader written all over him and as a prairie boy, getting him to commit long-term would likely be quite easy.

on the flip side, as much as PLD is obviously the more known asset, I'm not sure that long-term Guhle >> PLD, i'm quite high on his upside whereas PLD has some character red flags and might not find playing in front of the demanding home crowd as much fun as he thinks it will be.

 

[Richiebottles]

makes sense given Hughes' mo thus far. I doubt he will pay a "premium" for PLD.

what i'd be curious to know is what pieces he is willing to part with... I'd hope Suzuki/CC are off the table completely (and Slaf), but after that?

would he be willing to part with Guhle + Fla 1st (or a top-5-10 protected habs 1st)... guess that's pretty reasonable for us, especially with the LD prospect depth we have in place and the certainty of getting PLD long term.

As much as Chevy might be holding out for more than that, Guhle as a key piece coming back for the Jets makes a ton of sense. Kid has future top-pairing and team leader written all over him and as a prairie boy, getting him to commit long-term would likely be quite easy.

on the flip side, as much as PLD is obviously the more known asset, I'm not sure that long-term Guhle >> PLD, i'm quite high on his upside whereas PLD has some character red flags and might not find playing in front of the demanding home crowd as much fun as he thinks it will be.

I want PLD, but I'm with you on this one. With the McD & Sergachev trades we can't have that again.

I'd be OK with Barron tho.

 

[Habfan10]

Considering Patches was given for free, I doubt the habs will get an offer that will make them willing to trade Anderson

If Vegas had cap room that trade would look a lot different

 

[BaseballCoach]

NYR were rebuilding at the time of the trade.
Granted for the Drouin trade, still the cond. 2nd was there.

Trouba became the Rangers top defenceman and still is top 5-on-5 D for them. 1 and 1A defencemen are worth more than 2Cs.

You don't get a top 10 player with a low 20's pick.....we were not even able to secure one with 2 3rd overall pick.

Sure but there were plenty taken after both KK and Galch.

 

[beowulf]

makes sense given Hughes' mo thus far. I doubt he will pay a "premium" for PLD.

what i'd be curious to know is what pieces he is willing to part with... I'd hope Suzuki/CC are off the table completely (and Slaf), but after that?

would he be willing to part with Guhle + Fla 1st (or a top-5-10 protected habs 1st)... guess that's pretty reasonable for us, especially with the LD prospect depth we have in place and the certainty of getting PLD long term.

As much as Chevy might be holding out for more than that, Guhle as a key piece coming back for the Jets makes a ton of sense. Kid has future top-pairing and team leader written all over him and as a prairie boy, getting him to commit long-term would likely be quite easy.

on the flip side, as much as PLD is obviously the more known asset, I'm not sure that long-term Guhle >> PLD, i'm quite high on his upside whereas PLD has some character red flags and might not find playing in front of the demanding home crowd as much fun as he thinks it will be.

with the end of season, WHL playoffs and Memorial Cup he had I wonder if this would be another case of losing a potentially really good dman again if he is part of any Dubois trade. Any trade would also have to likely include one of the higher paid montreal assests to make room. Whether a Gallagher, Drouin, Hoffmam or whatever.

 

[RC51]

Habs should make the offer they want. thats it. Jets dont want then jets keep PLD. no big deal.
if PLD wants to play in MTL he will he will.

 

[SlafySZN]

Dubois will be much more expensive than both of them at a time when Montreal has no cap space. And that 1st wont even be the biggest piece Montreal would have to send out.

And while Dubois is clearly better than both, he's not close to a slam dunk, especially at what his contract will cost. He's only produced marginally more than Dvorak over the past 3 years and both have overrated defensive games (Dvorak's is probably better). Dubois value is how he can push play offensively and his shot, but he's got a ton of warts too.

And Dvorak is way better on faceoffs than Dubois.