Value of: Trade Leon??

[Eisen]

With what cap space and assets? That's the issue when you're paying two guys a combined 21 million dollars. They are the two best players in the world (side note: Isn't that amazing to say for a player from Germany?) but it's tough to build a team when you've got that much locked up in two guys and not a lot in the way of young cheap high value assets to fill out the rest of your team.

But Draisaitl has one of the most cost efficient contracts in the league (I still believe he got stiffed).

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

not happening
but Drai is one guy I would incl Shesty in a package
and gamble on Benny Allaire developing a high end replacement

Drai + Broberg + 1st
for
Shesty + Lindgren + Krav

something like that

but again, not happening

Hahahahahahahhaha

hahahahahahahahahah

hahahahahahahahhaa

Bern, come on man… you’re not getting a top 5 player in the NHL on an average star player salary and two first round valued assets for that package.

Absolutely not happening. Drop Broberg and the 1st and that still probably doesn’t get it done.

Trading Draisaitl is ludicrously stupid and trading him for that while also surrendering Broberg and a 1st would be an insta-fire offense

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Something like Suzuki, Romanov, 2022 1st (top 3 protected)

Id you are trading for Leon Draisaitl, there is not any protection on that pick.
That package would be Suzuki, some asset better than Romanov, and an unprotected first.

 

[ponder719]

not happening
but Drai is one guy I would incl Shesty in a package
and gamble on Benny Allaire developing a high end replacement

Drai + Broberg + 1st
for
Shesty + Lindgren + Krav

something like that

but again, not happening

As a neutral fan... Bern, come on. You're at least Panarin short of this being worth discussing.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Funny how "valuable" other team's fans claim Drai is, only to then see this thread of 6 pages not have an offer even close to what would be acceptable to move a young, established, Top 5 stud 1c on a sweatheart of a longterm deal.

I was multi-quoting each bad offer as reference, but got exhausted by end of page 2...

That is because he is a type of guy you just don’t trade or don’t think will ever be available on the trade market without an inciting incident which lowers the return (I.e forcing a trade out of town, needed surgery that the team won’t let him have, etc)

There is not a realistic value for LD because anything that convinces Edmonton to move him is a ridiculous overpayment and anything that a team feels comfortable surrendering is nowhere near enough

 

[bernmeister]

Hahahahahahahhaha

hahahahahahahahahah

hahahahahahahahhaa

Bern, come on man… you’re not getting a top 5 player in the NHL on an average star player salary and two first round valued assets for that package.

Absolutely not happening. Drop Broberg and the 1st and that still probably doesn’t get it done.

Trading Draisaitl is ludicrously stupid and trading him for that while also surrendering Broberg and a 1st would be an insta-fire offense

ha ha yourself
Shesty is in open discussion about who among top 5 is best G/also best value taking into acct age + contract

Shesty IS signif value vs LeoDrai, like it or not.

Anyhoo, happy to hold pat other than move Geo + Strome now.
Good luck in p'os w/substellar G

 

[TFHockey]

ha ha yourself
Shesty is in open discussion about who among top 5 is best G/also best value taking into acct age + contract

Shesty IS signif value vs LeoDrai, like it or not.

Anyhoo, happy to hold pat other than move Geo + Strome now.
Good luck in p'os w/substellar G

A little salty there Bern? Draisaitl is worth much more than you're offering and the Oilers goaltending situation (at least in the short term) can be dealt with without moving either Connor or Leon.

 

[bernmeister]

A little salty there Bern? Draisaitl is worth much more than you're offering and the Oilers goaltending situation (at least in the short term) can be dealt with without moving either Connor or Leon.

sorry you feel that way and would like to keep it cordial as ever, but you are GROSSLY undervaluing Shesty here.

tell it like it is, let your conscience be your guide
not orig but ever apt

 

[TFHockey]

sorry you feel that way and would like to keep it cordial as ever, but you are GROSSLY undervaluing Shesty here.

tell it like it is, let your conscience be your guide
not orig but ever apt

Shesterkin is a 1A goalie. I totally agree.

Draisaitl is one of the top players in the entire league. Some say just behind #1 Connor McDavid. Better than Eichel. Better than Matthews. Would you trade a guy like that and a 1st and your top LDH prospect for that package? Let your conscience be your guide, Bern!

 

[bernmeister]

Shesterkin is a 1A goalie. I totally agree.

Draisaitl is one of the top players in the entire league. Some say just behind #1 Connor McDavid. Better than Eichel. Better than Matthews. Would you trade a guy like that and a 1st and your top LDH prospect for that package? Let your conscience be your guide, Bern!

you completely ignored the return, focusing only on what your cost was.

setting aside any other aspect of it, Lindy + Broberg are nec so there is ballpark cap balance.

And again, we do not even think about surrendering Shesty unless LeoDrai is on the table and Shesty is recognized as signif core value vs his value.

Otherwise, happy to maintain status quo

 

[OG Eberle]

That is because he is a type of guy you just don’t trade or don’t think will ever be available on the trade market without an inciting incident which lowers the return (I.e forcing a trade out of town, needed surgery that the team won’t let him have, etc)

There is not a realistic value for LD because anything that convinces Edmonton to move him is a ridiculous overpayment and anything that a team feels comfortable surrendering is nowhere near enough

But this goes back to what you said. If Edmonton isn't looking to move him, then it doesn't matter what a team would "feel comfortable" moving for him. Neither is that reflective of what Leon's actual value is either.

Drai is being discussed here as if he has demanded a trade, on the downslope of his career, and has an anchor of a contract.

It's rather confusing tbh

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

But this goes back to what you said. If Edmonton isn't looking to move him, then it doesn't matter what a team would "feel comfortable" moving for him. Neither is that reflective of what Leon's actual value is either.

Drai is being discussed here as if he has demanded a trade, on the downslope of his career, and has an anchor of a contract.

It's rather confusing tbh

Right. It's why these topics are usually DOA. Because the implication of this type of deal is the twin delusions of

1) We can trade our one premium asset and get like 4 premium assets for him
2) If the team with the premium asset is talking about moving him, you can trade 4 quarters for $1.50-2.00 because maybe the quarters have the potential to be worth more.

This is why I said Draisaitl really doesn't have a value. He's essentially priceless because the cost to acquire is more than a team can reasonably piece together and the return required by Edmonton to move on from a 100+ point C is simply never going to be offered. It's just like how prospect McDavid as the 1OA had offers of 5-6 premium assets get shot down because he was that damn good. It's why the Lindros trade or the Gretzky trade don't happen if there isn't 15-20M attached to them along with massive boatloads of talent.

This topic was especially bad, as it was an Edmonton fan (or someone proclaiming to be an Edmonton fan, I can never tell), thinking that the problem with Edmonton is somehow a truly elite C being paid less than truly elite C prices is the problem and that they could silver bullet five different holes by trading him and you'd be closer to contending. The issue with that is that Draisaitl plus 4 plugs is going to be worth more than whatever the return would be here. Trading your 100p, early 20s 1C with a contract <$10M is NEVER the answer if you're looking to compete.

 

[OG Eberle]

Right. It's why these topics are usually DOA. Because the implication of this type of deal is the twin delusions of

1) We can trade our one premium asset and get like 4 premium assets for him
2) If the team with the premium asset is talking about moving him, you can trade 4 quarters for $1.50-2.00 because maybe the quarters have the potential to be worth more.

This is why I said Draisaitl really doesn't have a value. He's essentially priceless because the cost to acquire is more than a team can reasonably piece together and the return required by Edmonton to move on from a 100+ point C is simply never going to be offered. It's just like how prospect McDavid as the 1OA had offers of 5-6 premium assets get shot down because he was that damn good. It's why the Lindros trade or the Gretzky trade don't happen if there isn't 15-20M attached to them along with massive boatloads of talent.

This topic was especially bad, as it was an Edmonton fan (or someone proclaiming to be an Edmonton fan, I can never tell), thinking that the problem with Edmonton is somehow a truly elite C being paid less than truly elite C prices is the problem and that they could silver bullet five different holes by trading him and you'd be closer to contending. The issue with that is that Draisaitl plus 4 plugs is going to be worth more than whatever the return would be here. Trading your 100p, early 20s 1C with a contract <$10M is NEVER the answer if you're looking to compete.

All good points.

I feel like a lot of "Oiler fans" are on the ledge right now and think taking a "cancel culture" approach with digital pitchforks and torches is the solution to a losing skid mid-season.

While I think changes should be made, "fire XXX" or "trade away XXX" isn't a solution. It's creating more problems as none of those changes are fixing anything. And it's not as simple as "addition by subtraction" mid-season. Especially when it comes to trading away star players on gut reactions.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

sorry you feel that way and would like to keep it cordial as ever, but you are GROSSLY undervaluing Shesty here.

tell it like it is, let your conscience be your guide
not orig but ever apt

Wanting to keep Shesterkin unless Draisaitl or other similar asset is coming back is fine. I understand that. But just because you won't trade him for less than that does not make that his value. Same with Kravstov. You value him at his 7OA draft slot, but there is not going to be a team in the league that will give you that for him. You're not wrong to value your players highly and not want to deal them for scraps. But just because you value the guy there has no bearing on what the market will say.

An elite goalie is not worth an elite C. Never has been. Dominik Hasek at the height of his power was traded for Slava Kozlov and a couple 1sts. I freaking love Slava Kozlov more than any other player in NHL history. He's my favorite player of all time. He also was never anything more than a good to really good top 6F and two 1sts which were going to be 28-30 (as the Wings at that time were prohibitive favorites for the Cup pretty much every year.).

Shesterkin is damn good, but he's not Dominik Hasek. Kozlov and two firsts was a valuable package.... but it wouldn't have remotely sniffed acquiring a guy like Joe Thornton or Peter Forsberg in 2000-2001.

 

[captainpaxil]

Sanheim Hayes 1st fedotov and a forward prospect from Philadelphia

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Id you are trading for Leon Draisaitl, there is not any protection on that pick.
That package would be Suzuki, some asset better than Romanov, and an unprotected first.

I'd gladly do Suzuki + Guhle/Norlinder + 2022 1st + anything else other than 2023 1st

 

[bernmeister]

Wanting to keep Shesterkin unless Draisaitl or other similar asset is coming back is fine. I understand that. But just because you won't trade him for less than that does not make that his value. Same with Kravstov. You value him at his 7OA draft slot, but there is not going to be a team in the league that will give you that for him. You're not wrong to value your players highly and not want to deal them for scraps. But just because you value the guy there has no bearing on what the market will say.

An elite goalie is not worth an elite C. Never has been. Dominik Hasek at the height of his power was traded for Slava Kozlov and a couple 1sts. I freaking love Slava Kozlov more than any other player in NHL history. He's my favorite player of all time. He also was never anything more than a good to really good top 6F and two 1sts which were going to be 28-30 (as the Wings at that time were prohibitive favorites for the Cup pretty much every year.).

Shesterkin is damn good, but he's not Dominik Hasek. Kozlov and two firsts was a valuable package.... but it wouldn't have remotely sniffed acquiring a guy like Joe Thornton or Peter Forsberg in 2000-2001.

we will see

 

[Perratrooper]

To Edm:
Kadri
Girard
Keumper
Barron/Olausson
Kaut
2023 first

for
Draisaital
Koskinen

Edmonton gets a second line center, a top 3 defenseman signed long term, an upgrade at goalie, a good prospect, a prospect that needs a scenery change and a first.

Cap balances equally.

 

[93LEAFS]

To Edm:
Kadri
Girard
Keumper
Barron/Olausson
Kaut
2023 first

for
Draisaital
Koskinen

Edmonton gets a second line center, a top 3 defenseman signed long term, an upgrade at goalie, a good prospect, a prospect that needs a scenery change and a first.

Cap balances equally.

Kadri is an upcoming UFA who is going to require a significant raise in UFA to keep. Doesn't really make sense.

 

[Sentinel]

the Oilers goaltending situation (at least in the short term) can be dealt with without moving either Connor or Leon.

How?

 

[jd22]

There isn't really a fair trade that a team could possibly put together. That said, would something from the Canucks along the lines of Miller, Boeser and Pete equate? Canucks would need a prospect with top 6 upside coming back as well, unfortunately. Sending out an entire first line guts the team a bit.

It would be preferable to send out two of those pieces for D help and futures, but since we are in the Draisatl thread...

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

How?

By not dealing one of the top 5 players in the league for a goalie

you probably retain 50% on Koskinen or Smith to just clear the spot and then see what Detroit wants in return for Thomas Greiss or NYR for Georgiev. Maybe you toss a higher pick and go chase a Dubnyk when he was good level guy.

It is insanity to deal such a strong value piece for a goalie. They don’t need a top 5 goalie… most teams don’t. There are a dozen, low cost potential improvements. The way the Oilers are set up, they will not have the room for a cap busting top 5 goalie. So you take a flier on a guy of your choosing and hope you hit on a Jordan Binnington before he pops.

Maybe you call Dallas and ask about Oettinger

 

[Perratrooper]

Kadri is an upcoming UFA who is going to require a significant raise in UFA to keep. Doesn't really make sense.

If he had a deal in place, say $6.5m by 6 would it be considered?

 

[93LEAFS]

If he had a deal in place, say $6.5m by 6 would you consider it?

I'm not an Oilers fan, and I doubt Kadri takes that deal considering the year he is having and what centers garner in the open market.

 

[Stuzchuk]

ha ha yourself
Shesty is in open discussion about who among top 5 is best G/also best value taking into acct age + contract

Shesty IS signif value vs LeoDrai, like it or not.

Anyhoo, happy to hold pat other than move Geo + Strome now.
Good luck in p'os w/substellar G