Speculation: Trade Ideas and Free Agency XIV

[Digitalbooya]

Fall? Hope for Kyle Connor.

Players that could be there include Konecny/Merkley/White/Eriksson Ek/Guryanov/Boeser/Bracco

Guryanov is said to be the next Tarasenko. That's who I desperately want.

 

[57special]

Mike Green would be great...

Maybe a lesser guy like Franson ?

I'd like to see us acquire Lehner..

Franson is horrendous.

 

[plock]

Fall? Hope for Kyle Connor.

Players that could be there include Konecny/Merkley/White/Eriksson Ek/Guryanov/Boeser/Bracco

Guryanov is said to be the next Tarasenko. That's who I desperately want.

Does Guryanov want to play in the NHL?And if he does would he want to play here?

 

[Digitalbooya]

Does Guryanov want to play in the NHL?And if he does would he want to play here?

I assume he does, who doesn't? If he wants to play in the NHL then why wouldn't he want to play for Minnesota?

 

[plock]

I assume he does, who doesn't? If he wants to play in the NHL then why wouldn't he want to play for Minnesota?

Lots of Russians have chosen to play in the KHL rather than the NHL.

Minnesota does not have a very large Russian community and may not be as attractive as NYC,Los Angeles or Detroit which do have sizable Russian communities.The Wild has no other Russians on the team or even on the staff which could also be an issue with the player.

 

[TaLoN]

Lots of Russians have chosen to play in the KHL rather than the NHL.

Minnesota does not have a very large Russian community and may not be as attractive as NYC,Los Angeles or Detroit which do have sizable Russian communities.The Wild has no other Russians on the team or even on the staff which could also be an issue with the player.

Read what Russo wrote... the view on Russians are, they aren't as big of a risk for not signing as they were a few years ago. The Wild are seriously considering Russians and other Eastern Europeans.

 

[forthewild]

Considering the recent success with guys like tarasenko and the fecend lack of KHL solvency it would be safe to assume he would want to play in the NHL.

 

[plock]

Read what Russo wrote... the view on Russians are, they aren't as big of a risk for not signing as they were a few years ago. The Wild are seriously considering Russians and other Eastern Europeans.

I think they were referring to the ones who have demonstrated a desire to play in the NHL by coming over and playing junior hockey in North America like Provorov,Svechnikov,Zacha,Zboril,Trenin,Korostelev and others.

Both Guryanov and Samsonov are under contract to KHL teams which may impact when they could come to the NHL (I am not really up to speed on the new transfer policy between the NHL/KHL).

I have previously said if either of these players is available at 50 the Wild should take them.I think the risk is too great to use a first round pick on either.

 

[TaLoN]

I think they were referring to the ones who have demonstrated a desire to play in the NHL by coming over and playing junior hockey in North America like Provorov,Svechnikov,Zacha,Zboril,Trenin,Korostelev and others.

Both Guryanov and Samsonov are under contract to KHL teams which may impact when they could come to the NHL (I am not really up to speed on the new transfer policy between the NHL/KHL).

I have previously said if either of these players is available at 50 the Wild should take them.I think the risk is too great to use a first round pick on either.

Russo also noted that the KHL and the NHL are very close to a transfer agreement as well though, again reducing the risk.

As for Samsonov, the only reason I wouldn't take him in the first two rounds, is because I think there will be some golden talent still available especially at forward for us to grab. That's much more important IMO. We can wait on a goalie, it's so easy to find decent goaltending talent.

 

[plock]

Russo also noted that the KHL and the NHL are very close to a transfer agreement as well though, again reducing the risk.

As for Samsonov, the only reason I wouldn't take him in the first two rounds, is because I think there will be some golden talent still available especially at forward for us to grab. That's much more important IMO. We can wait on a goalie, it's so easy to find decent goaltending talent.

Guryanov was taken by Laga Togliatti with the 42nd pick and at seventeen has seen numerous call ups to the main team.Laga Togliatti is going to be reluctant to let him go and every single thing I have read on him says it is unknown if he wants to come to the NHL.

Being close to an agreement with the KHL means that as of yet there is no agreement,maybe there will be in a month or two,maybe there won't.The reason I think the KHL wants an agreement is to protect them from losing young talent such as Guryanov and Samsonov to the NHL during a time when they are having financial difficulties.

 

[TaLoN]

Guryanov was taken by Laga Togliatti with the 42nd pick and at seventeen has seen numerous call ups to the main team.Laga Togliatti is going to be reluctant to let him go and every single thing I have read on him says it is unknown if he wants to come to the NHL.

Being close to an agreement with the KHL means that as of yet there is no agreement,maybe there will be in a month or two,maybe there won't.The reason I think the KHL wants an agreement is to protect them from losing young talent such as Guryanov and Samsonov to the NHL during a time when they are having financial difficulties.

A transfer agreement protects the player's rights more than anything. It allows them to continue development in the KHL if they need it, and be able to come to the NHL when they are ready despite contract situations.

Without a transfer agreement, these players usually will opt to come to N/A sooner rather than later - so they can start their NHL path. An agreement allows that path to start right where they are without any conflict.

 

[plock]

A transfer agreement protects the player's rights more than anything. It allows them to continue development in the KHL if they need it, and be able to come to the NHL when they are ready despite contract situations.

Without a transfer agreement, these players usually will opt to come to N/A sooner rather than later - so they can start their NHL path. An agreement allows that path to start right where they are without any conflict.

Nobody knows what the terms of this transfer agreement are,they have not been revealed.It does not mean a player can just arbitrarily break their KHL contract and sign with an NHL team.The KHL has absolutely zero interest in becoming a feeder league for the NHL.

 

[TaLoN]

Nobody knows what the terms of this transfer agreement are,they have not been revealed.It does not mean a player can just arbitrarily break their KHL contract and sign with an NHL team.The KHL has absolutely zero interest in becoming a feeder league for the NHL.

A "transfer agreement" is an agreement to transfer players under contract with the KHL to the NHL.

Without one, it behooves the player, if they are serious about going to the NHL, to NOT sign in the KHL at all, which is what has been happening to the KHL in recent years, which is why the KHL is now back at the table to try to get an agreement.

It's not "breaking contracts", it's a contract to allow their players who want to, to move to the NHL for compensation. The NHL pays other leagues money for each player under contract that moves to their NHL club. If that player has no contract, then no transfer is involved.

 

[plock]

A "transfer agreement" is an agreement to transfer players under contract with the KHL to the NHL.

Without one, it behooves the player, if they are serious about going to the NHL, to NOT sign in the KHL at all, which is what has been happening to the KHL in recent years, which is why the KHL is now back at the table to try to get an agreement.

It's not "breaking contracts", it's a contract to allow their players who want to, to move to the NHL for compensation. The NHL pays other leagues money for each player under contract that moves to their NHL club. If that player has no contract, then no transfer is involved.

Both of the players I mentioned are under contract in the KHL already.

Right now it is breaking contracts because there is no transfer agreement,in order for Guryanov or Samsonov to play for the Wild or in Iowa before their KHL contracts end they would have to break those contracts.

The reason the KHL wants an agreement now is that because of the current economic situation in Russia they cannot offer players the kind of money they have been so the NHL becomes a more lucrative alternative option for some players.Another reason is that many KHL teams are in dire financial situations at the moment and the ability to transfer players for monetary gain can help them remain solvent.The team that holds the players contract probably also has to agree to the transfer,I would be extremely surprised if the team holding the contract could not say no to a transfer.

You seem to be jumping to two conclusions:
1-That everybody wants to play in the NHL
2-That KHL teams would be willing to spend resources developing players just to transfer them to the NHL for monetary gain.

We have no idea what the details of the proposed transfer agreement is in regards to when a player can be transferred (will players under 20 be allowed to transfer?) or how much compensation will be given in exchange for players.Another issue is how will the transfer fees work within the salary cap?

Also,it already behooves Russian and Eastern European players who really want to play in the NHL
not to sign KHL,but come over and play junior hockey in NA.That is why there are so many Russians and Europeans playing junior the last several years.

 

[TaLoN]

Both of the players I mentioned are under contract in the KHL already.

Right now it is breaking contracts because there is no transfer agreement,in order for Guryanov or Samsonov to play for the Wild or in Iowa before their KHL contracts end they would have to break those contracts.

The reason the KHL wants an agreement now is that because of the current economic situation in Russia they cannot offer players the kind of money they have been so the NHL becomes a more lucrative alternative option for some players.Another reason is that many KHL teams are in dire financial situations at the moment and the ability to transfer players for monetary gain can help the remain solvent.The team that holds the players contract probably also has to agree to the transfer,I would be extremely surprised if the team holding the contract could not say no to a transfer.

You seem to be jumping to two conclusions:
1-That everybody wants to play in the NHL
2-That KHL teams would be willing to spend resources developing players just to transfer them to the NHL for monetary gain.

We have no idea what the details of the proposed transfer agreement is in regards to when a player can be transferred (will players under 20 be allowed to transfer?) or how much compensation will be given in exchange for players.Another issue is how will the transfer fees work within the salary cap?

I'm not making any assumptions, I'm just explaining how transfer agreements work. No transfer agreement for hockey exists that doesn't put the decision to move in the player's hands. It's up to the player on when they move, not their NHL rights holder or their KHL contract holder.

If the PLAYER chooses to transfer, the transfer agreement automatically kicks in and their NHL rights holder has to pay the KHL club.

That would then allow the player to play in either the NHL or AHL both.

It was Granlund's choice on when he came to North America... the transfer agreement protects the player's rights, but also allows their local league (FEL, SEL, KHL) to keep the player as long as the player feels they need to play there to continue their development before they choose that they are ready to move to North America and play in their NHL team's system.

The NHL can't force the player to come over, and the KHL wouldn't be able to PREVENT the player from coming over. What it does allow, is for local KHL developing stars to be able to stay in the KHL longer, than having them abandon the KHL at such a young age because they don't want to be anchored down by a KHL contract they can't get out of. That's what's been hurting the KHL most. Guys like Tarasenko not being even willing to spend any development years there when he likely would have had their been an agreement.

As for transfer fees, I'm not aware of any transfer fees affecting the cap, as they are not paid to players but to teams in other leagues.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Guryanov was taken by Laga Togliatti with the 42nd pick and at seventeen has seen numerous call ups to the main team.Laga Togliatti is going to be reluctant to let him go and every single thing I have read on him says it is unknown if he wants to come to the NHL.

Being close to an agreement with the KHL means that as of yet there is no agreement,maybe there will be in a month or two,maybe there won't.The reason I think the KHL wants an agreement is to protect them from losing young talent such as Guryanov and Samsonov to the NHL during a time when they are having financial difficulties.

Seems more likely the KHL would come to the table because they want compensation, for the players they are going to lose and have been losing regardless.

 

[plock]

I'm not making any assumptions, I'm just explaining how transfer agreements work. No transfer agreement for hockey exists that doesn't put the decision to move in the player's hands. It's up to the player on when they move, not their NHL rights holder or their KHL contract holder.

If the PLAYER chooses to transfer, the transfer agreement automatically kicks in and their NHL rights holder has to pay the KHL club.

That would then allow the player to play in either the NHL or AHL both.

It was Granlund's choice on when he came to North America... the transfer agreement protects the player's rights, but also allows their local league (FEL, SEL, KHL) to keep the player as long as the player feels they need to play there to continue their development before they choose that they are ready to move to North America and play in their NHL team's system.

The NHL can't force the player to come over, and the KHL wouldn't be able to PREVENT the player from coming over. What it does allow, is for local KHL developing stars to be able to stay in the KHL longer, than having them abandon the KHL at such a young age because they don't want to be anchored down by a KHL contract they can't get out of. That's what's been hurting the KHL most. Guys like Tarasenko not being even willing to spend any development years there when he likely would have had their been an agreement.

You have no way of knowing what the details of the agreement between the KHL and the NHL will be.I would be etremely surprised if the KHL would agree to a system that did not include the right of first refusal.

 

[TaLoN]

You have no way of knowing what the details of the agreement between the KHL and the NHL will be.I would be etremely surprised if the KHL would agree to a system that did not include the right of first refusal.

It would be an absolute first. I would expect the NHL would not be willing to agree to that as that has zero protections to the player.

If you want to believe that is such a risk, go ahead, but I would be SHOCKED if that was even considered in a "transfer agreement" as that in and of itself is "anti-transfer".

On top of it, it would not solve the KHL's problems of not being able to get any of the Russians with serious NHL aspirations to actually spend time in the KHL, which is what brought them to the table to begin with.

 

[plock]

It would be an absolute first. I would expect the NHL would not be willing to agree to that as that has zero protections to the player.

If you want to believe that is such a risk, go ahead, but I would be SHOCKED if that was even considered in a "transfer agreement" as that in and of itself is "anti-transfer".

On top of it, it would not solve the KHL's problems of not being able to get any of the Russians with serious NHL aspirations to actually spend time in the KHL, which is what brought them to the table to begin with.

Soccer has a much more robust transfer system and proposed player transfers are refused all the time.

The NHL has one transfer agreement that involves all the other major European leagues the KHL refused to enter into this agreement in 2013.They are not going to sign the exact same agreement.

What has brought the KHL to the table is the current economic situation in Russia,they want to be able to infuse cash into struggling clubs and the league by selling select players.

They are not going to just allow all the young talent under contract to transfer to
the NHL,it does not make any sense from a buisiness standpoint to weaken their league in such a manner.

 

[TaLoN]

Hey, believe what you want... I've already made my points. It's clear you don't see things the same way.

I feel in your suggestion, the NHL would laugh at calling it a transfer agreement, and would walk away and continue as they have been, and the players will go the route they have been and the KHL will be sunk anyway.

 

[plock]

Roman Rotenberg (SKA VP, FHR Senior VP, KHL Directors board member) said today that no deal will be made unless:
-- KHL club has a right to veto a transfer of a player under contract (meaning that NHL club can't just buy out any player they want), or
-- KHL clubs can buy out any player unilaterally as well as NHL clubs do under their agreements with other leagues.
It's pretty simple: either clubs from both leagues have an ability to unilaterally sign players under contract in another league if a certain sum is paid, or clubs from neither league have such an ability.

If you can read Russian here is the link

 

[Spurgeon]

With the way Russia is currently, I would not want to be playing in the KHL.

 

[TaLoN]

With the way Russia is currently, I would not want to be playing in the KHL.

Exactly why the NHL will not give in to the veto term in the first place. As it is, the KHL needs this agreement more. If they truly are set on no deal without that clause, then there will be no deal.

 

[Puhis]

Trading away the players who are 2 and 3 in points for an unproven prospect would be crazy.

Who outside of Zucker and Nino deserve to move up the line up?I would like to see more consistent play from Nino before he is a permanent top 6 option,Zucker has earned a prolonged shot at a top line place.

One of the biggest problems in the last few years was moving young guys,Granlund,Coyle,Kuemper and Haula,up in the line up and into positions they were not ready to fill and had not really earned.

While I agree with you, it's not like Pominville & Vanek are irreplaceable. The value is there, not sure if AZ would do it, nor is it very likely of a deal, but might as well mention it for the sake of discussion.

As for roster spots, the way I see it:

Parise - Granlund - Niederreiter
Zucker - Koivu - Stewart (potentially signed pending the trade)

Nino replaces Pominville on top line. Otherwise, nothing changes on top 6.

Bottom 6 is a bit more tricky, and would depend on a lot of question marks. There are a couple of spots open for young players to compete for, and those decisions will be made depending on who performs well at the training camp and pre-season games. Especially the LW positions could prove iffy. Keränen is one who could play on that position, but he's not the type of player that would excel with little minutes on a defensive-first line. After Cooke's departure (I'm assuming we don't re-sign Bergenheim here), it would either be a trade/UFA acquisition, or if coming from inside the organization, one of Haula/Carter/Keränen.

This is the bottom-6, which I would like to see in such situation:

Keränen - Coyle - Schroeder
Carter - Haula - Fontaine

They are pretty much interchangeable. I thought about swapping the centers around at first, but realized that the line would be not only too small, but also not very good defensively. Still, it would be an intriguing due to the mismatch and headache it creates.

This is also pending that our potential #3 OA doesn't make it to NHL in his first season.

Yeah, I probably wasted my time making this post, and if you're reading this, your time too. But, nevertheless, it's a fun thought.

As a whole:

Pros:

+ Acquire a young player of elite talent
+ Free up cap space

Cons:

- Lose two great players
- High risk -move, what if the #3 busts?

 

[plock]

Exactly why the NHL will not give in to the veto term in the first place. As it is, the KHL needs this agreement more. If they truly are set on no deal without that clause, then there will be no deal.

If there is no transfer agreement then the current situation applies and NHL teams cannot sign players who are under contract to KHL teams.Players such as Guryanov and Samsonov would not be able to be signed until after their current KHL contracts expire,this makes them riskier draft picks,which was the point I was making that started this whole discussion.