Speculation: Trade Deadline

[Beef Invictus]

Carter can forever **** off for ghosting on us in the 2010 playoffs.

Yeah, f*** that guy for playing on a surgically repaired foot when his playstyle at the time relied on his skating.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Carter drove me crazy because the Flyers went as Carter went. He was so talented, and when he showed up the team was very tough to beat. But there were so many games he simply went through the motions. It was very aggravating. He became a much more consistent player in LA.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Carter drove me crazy because the Flyers went as Carter went. He was so talented, and when he showed up the team was very tough to beat. But there were so many games he simply went through the motions. It was very aggravating. He became a much more consistent player in LA.

Nah. The difference in LA was he learned how to hang out as a net presence instead of relying on outracing the opposition to create shots, so his toolbox became more diverse and he was harder to stop. He didn't "disappear" because of a lack of caring, he "disappeared" because some D groups were better able to handle speed.

 

[Adtar02]

Carter drove me crazy because the Flyers went as Carter went. He was so talented, and when he showed up the team was very tough to beat. But there were so many games he simply went through the motions. It was very aggravating. He became a much more consistent player in LA.

He had less responsibilities. He wasn’t their best player. Didn’t have the same spotlight.

 

[Striiker]

Oh man, the avalanche of complaints that came every single time he took a shot that didn't score. Like it was expected he'd never miss the net and would shoot at 100%.

Luckily I wasn't on here when Carter was here, so I never saw any of that.

You know what's hilarious? He's exactly the type of player so many on here are constantly begging for... yet when we had him, people didn't appreciate him. Just like if we do someday have his caliber of goalscorer again, that player will be unappreciated and people will lose their minds at every missed shot.

Kinda like how when TK or Ghost or whoever misses the net and people don't realize that they're not just aiming to get the shot on net... they're aiming for a small open space between the posts and the goalie. A couple inches too far to the one side and they miss the net, a couple inches to the other side and it hits the goalie... but for some reason if it misses the net it by 1 inch it's viewed as unacceptable, more so than if it's a foot off the mark but it hits the goalie.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

It'll never fail to amuse me how hard some try to downplay the importance of scoring. Literally the most important thing in the entire sport.

A player who can score is the most valuable thing you can have. It's tangible value. Indisputable proof that they help the team win. Even defense doesn't have the same value because there's too many factors that could lead to a goal not being scored, separate from the actions of a good defensive player.

Obviously that doesn't mean that defensive players don't have value, they absolutely do, but it's incredible how there's this reputation that a player who scores but doesn't defend is the worst thing ever but a player who defends but can't score is a noble hero.

Then you have a guy like Gostisbehere, who's a top offensive defensemen and not bad defensively, and somehow fans act like he's expendable and do everything in their power to exaggerate his every flaw and mistake. I really just can't understand how you can watch these games over the past few years and not realize how unbelievably stupid it would be to trade him. It seems to just come down to narratives with most of the people advocating it. People known to have some strange agenda against him and they're going to screech and cry until he's gone. Pretty pathetic. Luckily for us, the chances that Fletcher is as clueless as they are is pretty slim.

That’s pretty much ingrained in hockey culture where they’ve always tried to hype up the little guy to make him feel more important.

 

[tictactoe]

Carter drove me crazy because the Flyers went as Carter went. He was so talented, and when he showed up the team was very tough to beat. But there were so many games he simply went through the motions. It was very aggravating. He became a much more consistent player in LA.

The only time Carter drove me crazy was when he used to miss the net, puck always seem to bounced out of the zone and someone is on a breakaway . I actually really liked Carter's game.. was very responsible two way player

 

[Rebels57]

Yeah, **** that guy for playing on a surgically repaired foot when his playstyle at the time relied on his skating.

Im more mad at him missing an empty net at the end of Game 6. Oh and for just being a dbag in general. I used to like him. Even have his jersey.

 

[Striiker]

That’s pretty much ingrained in hockey culture where they’ve always tried to hype up the little guy to make him feel more important.

Yeah, it drives me nuts. All these little stereotypes and cliches and whatnot...

Like how a 4th line guy is praised for his "compete" and work ethic... as if a star player isn't trying just as hard. As if trying but failing is more honorable than trying and succeeding. As if guys like Giroux or Crosby other top guys didn't bust their asses to get where they are.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Im more mad at him missing an empty net at the end of Game 6. Oh and for just being a dbag in general. I used to like him. Even have his jersey.

He didn't miss, Niemi made a save.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Nah. The difference in LA was he learned how to hang out as a net presence instead of relying on outracing the opposition to create shots, so his toolbox became more diverse and he was harder to stop. He didn't "disappear" because of a lack of caring, he "disappeared" because some D groups were better able to handle speed.

I disagree. Carter coasted through many games as a Flyer. Probably related to his legendary late night partying.

 

[bennysflyers16]

And how is Stralman doing?

But I concede, because in the TOP10 teams league wise:
Tampa has one D who is an inch taller than Ghost - and any lady appreciates an inch more so this logic is absolutely impossible to defeat
Calgary has all D at 6'0 at least
San Jose has 3 guys at 5'11 (that extra inch again!)
Winnipeg, NYI same as Calgary
Nashville has Ryan Ellis at 5'10 (and I can only imagine his play off tape is terrible), Yannick Weber is at 5'11 but 200 pounds - heavy!
Vegas is yuuuge, everyone 6'1 at least!
Toronto just like Calgary, WPG, NYI, at least 6'0
Capitals' only sub 6 feet player would be Orlov, again very heavy at 212
CBJ like Vegas

All in all, Ghost is small. Lacks that one extra inch to be on a TOP10 team. If there is something we need, it is not a small guy capable of >60 points. Even if he was the only small lacking heaviness in that group. Just no.

There’s no way Morrissey is 6 feet tall is there ????

 

[Beef Invictus]

I disagree. Carter coasted through many games as a Flyer. Probably related to his legendary late night partying.

This coming from the guy who insists we can't make claims about Hakstol 's communication because we weren't in the room.


No, Carter was pretty 1 dimensional offensively when he was here. He developed a new dimension in LA. I don't know why you'd choose to ignore that. It's not like LA is a lesser party destination than Philly is.

 

[Rebels57]

He didn't miss, Niemi made a save.

Carter had the entire top left of the net to shoot at, and shot it right into him instead..



Pause at 0:36

 

[Ghosts Beer]

This coming from the guy who insists we can't make claims about Hakstol 's communication because we weren't in the room.


No, Carter was pretty 1 dimensional offensively when he was here. He developed a new dimension in LA. I don't know why you'd choose to ignore that. It's not like LA is a lesser party destination than Philly is.

A) I referred to the "coaches'" communication, collectively. Do you think assistant coaches, particularly position coaches like Murphy was for the defense, don't actually coach the players?

B) Carter's constant late night partying is well known. There are a zillion eyewitness stories. No one has any eyewitness observations of the Flyers' *coaching staff's* interactions with Ghost; but to act like he had no idea of how they expected him to play seems absolutely ludicrous to me.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Carter had the entire top left of the net to shoot at, and shot it right into him instead..



Pause at 0:36

Did you see Campbell's stick hitting the puck?

 

[Beef Invictus]

A) I referred to the "coaches'" communication, collectively. Do you think assistant coaches, particularly position coaches like Murphy was for the defense, don't actually coach the players?

B) Carter's constant late night partying is well known. There are a zillion eyewitness stories. No one has any eyewitness observations of the Flyers' *coaching staff's* interactions with Ghost; but to act like he had no idea of how they expected him to play seems absolutely ludicrous to me.

Ghost and TK both made it clear. Hakstol admitted he sucked at it. But why believe his own words?


Eyewitness stories were laughable. I heard plenty. They tended to be 15th hand. He went to a city with a far bigger party scene and his play improved overall. Because he improved as a player.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Carter had the entire top left of the net to shoot at, and shot it right into him instead..



Pause at 0:36

I mentioned this recently, saying Leighton was Carter-missing-an-open-net away from going to Game 7 of the finals, and was told Campbell checked Carter's stick and that's why he missed.

 

[hatcher]

He didn't miss, Niemi made a save.

Campbell I think f***ed up his shot.

 

[Rebels57]

Did you see Campbell's stick hitting the puck?

Campbell may have slowed it down but didnt change its direction from what I can tell.

Either way, 6 games and 1 empty net goal is a pathetic performance any way you want to slice it. Regardless of whether his foot was 100%, which neither of us truly know.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Ghost and TK both made it clear. Hakstol admitted he sucked at it. But why believe his own words?

What, the coach should have blamed the player to the media instead? You don't think coaches routinely take the blame themselves in public, regardless of whether or not they think it's true? And why do you keep ignoring that the Flyers have more than one coach, including a positional coach for the defensemen? You don't think Gord Murphy gave Ghost instructions? Yeesh, the extreme excuse making that goes on for the board favorites. Nothing is ever their own fault, always someone else's.

 

[Striiker]

Ghost and TK both made it clear. Hakstol admitted he sucked at it. But why believe his own words?


Eyewitness stories were laughable. I heard plenty. They tended to be 15th hand. He went to a city with a far bigger party scene and his play improved overall. Because he improved as a player.

So, to summarize:

Hearing a story, 10x removed, about Carter partying = fact
Hearing that there was little to no communication between the coach and players, directly from the mouth of the coach and those players = meaningless hearsay

 

[deadhead]

It's not as simple as scoring - good. The object isn't to score as many goals as possible, but to score more than the other team, or why Weight got fired from the Islanders.

1) goal scoring is important, because only a few players have the knack of beating goalies, a lot of guys can shoot into empty nets or fire through a screen, but the hands, ability to make space, etc. of a top goal scorer is rare. Great passing can set up an easy goal, but great scorers can produce "hard" goals. And goals are more valuable than merely garnering points. They give out almost 2 assists per goal, so it's harder to amass goals.

2) net scoring is important, a 80 point player with a negative xGF isn't as valuable as a 60 point player with a positive xGF, because the former is giving the opposition a lot of scoring chances. +/- was traditionally used, but it's vulnerable to short-term team and "bad luck" effects, though if a player is minus over multiple years (and not playing for bad teams that are strongly negative at ES) that's not good. Advanced stats like xGF and scoring chances give a better idea of what happens when a player is on the ice. On the other hand, a great defensive player who can't score has limited value, which is why they're on the bottom six.

Players like Kane and Kessel aren't as good as their scoring stats, players like Kopitar, Couts and Toews are better than their scoring stats. Ideally, you want all two way players, in the real world you balance off scorers with players who can CYA for them.

 

[hatcher]

A) I referred to the "coaches'" communication, collectively. Do you think assistant coaches, particularly position coaches like Murphy was for the defense, don't actually coach the players?

B) Carter's constant late night partying is well known. There are a zillion eyewitness stories. No one has any eyewitness observations of the Flyers' *coaching staff's* interactions with Ghost; but to act like he had no idea of how they expected him to play seems absolutely ludicrous to me.

Carter was awesome two way in Philly also. Loved Carter and Richards and we have ducked since they left along with that fun team.

 

[hatcher]

What, the coach should have blamed the player to the media instead? You don't think coaches routinely take the blame themselves in public, regardless of whether or not they think it's true? And why do you keep ignoring that the Flyers have more than one coach, including a positional coach for the defensemen? You don't think Gord Murphy gave Ghost instructions? Yeesh, the extreme excuse making that goes on for the board favorites. Nothing is ever their own fault, always someone else's.

Always but they are what is hurting the team with poor play.