Trade Deadline day approaches (quarantine reduced)

[WTFMAN99]

I completely disagree. I like good players and that kind of player would be a massive upgrade. We don't have a LW with his skillset. Having him with Matthews and Marner would really good. And he's a proven winner.

I personally do not like Nick Foligno one bit. Laughton is alright and would be fine.

Just checked...also not having a great season, 2 goals in 23 games is damn near Hall territory.

We don't have a LW with his skill set no but we have 2 RWers...or hell move 88 to LW like he prefers and then we do. I feel like if you put Schwartz with Matthews and Marner, it's easier to cheat for Matthews shot. A greasy 3rd wheel like Hyman or Laughton/Foligno is there to bang home those rebounds like we saw with Hyman tonight.

Why don't you like Foligno though? I've been a fan of Scott Laughton for a while. I remember when he was going through waivers and I was like "claim claim claim" - thought he had a solid playoff last year for the Flyers too.

 

[123offtheglass]

Schwartz doesn't have the size and power that Foligno or a PWF would have but he's got bite & tenacity to his game and I think he's about as perfect a fit as you could ask for to our top players (particularly Matthews & Marner). Really great player, he moves the needle. I'd call him an even strength specialist (although he's great in every situation) which is great considering the powerplay personnel the Leafs already have; even then his natural place is bumper which is helpful.

He's more of a longshot than the others but I'm not shocked if he moves, and if Kyle truly is looking for the best forward available then that he is.

 

[Buds17]

Is it just me or the NYI just got but name players for CHEAP...

IMO this trade just dropped the value for other teams holding on to their players for a better offer.

There is no way Hall is getting back a 1st after what NJ just gave away for their top trade chips this season.

Am I missing something here?

Hall is obviously better than either of Palmieri or Zajac when at his best. He's also a pending UFA just as they are. I'd guess a contender's 1st, or the equivalent in prospect, to be the best - and possibly only - asset going back to Buffalo in return.

 

[SprDaVE]

Just checked...also not having a great season, 2 goals in 23 games is damn near Hall territory.

We don't have a LW with his skill set no but we have 2 RWers...or hell move 88 to LW like he prefers and then we do. I feel like if you put Schwartz with Matthews and Marner, it's easier to cheat for Matthews shot. A greasy 3rd wheel like Hyman or Laughton/Foligno is there to bang home those rebounds like we saw with Hyman tonight.

Why don't you like Foligno though? I've been a fan of Scott Laughton for a while. I remember when he was going through waivers and I was like "claim claim claim" - thought he had a solid playoff last year for the Flyers too.

Schwartz definitely is having a bad season for his standards. Low shooting percentage and the Blues haven't been good at all either. The price would be interesting but he's usually a 50-60 point player with a pretty good work ethic. You want a cup winner and someone that has been on winning teams, that's the kind of guy you're adding.

Foligno is a 30 point producer now and a bad skater. He can't play high in the lineup if we need him to, at least in my opinion. I just don't see him having much of an impact where we need it.

Laughton is younger, faster and seems to able to produce more, although he's been injured a lot.

 

[seanlinden]

Not understanding the Foligno love. He's had 3 straight season at 35 points or less and is on a 32 point, 82 game pace again this year.

At this point his production is probably less than that of what Wayne Simmonds would have done had he stayed healthy, and you're going to overpay Columbus to get him due to his value from a leadership perspective.

JMO, but it doesn't make sense. Toronto didn't lose to Columbus last year because they were lacking Nick Foligno's... They lost because they got goalied by the Columbus tandem, their depth of scoring dried up and Anderson got outplayed routinely.

That is what happens to a team that "lacks Folignos"... for lack of a better description.

For me the challenge is -- I'm not sure I'd "trust" Foligno as a 3rd line C; and I don't trust either Engvall or Kerfoot as the 3rd line C. I also question whether he moves around with enough pace to play on a line with what would likely be Mikheyev, Engvall, and/or Kerfoot.... plus there's the cap issue.

A Foligno is almost certainly going to cost you Kerfoot (or keeping Andersen LTIRed until the playoffs) and even at 50% retained, take up a lot of the flexibility you do have by moving Kerfoot.

Laughton at 50% retained is a deal I believe the Leafs can do today without subtraction.

 

[123offtheglass]

I find him redundant. I think his 2-way game is underrated but he's a pass first smaller winger that would be joining Marner and 88 in the top 6.

Blues had a bit bigger 2-way group up front that I feel that skill set complimented. It's why I continue to bang the Nick Foligno / Scott Laughton drum. That skill set compliments our group, maybe we can finally wear down the opposition over a 7 game series by crunching them for a change.

Just checked...also not having a great season, 2 goals in 23 games is damn near Hall territory.

We don't have a LW with his skill set no but we have 2 RWers...or hell move 88 to LW like he prefers and then we do. I feel like if you put Schwartz with Matthews and Marner, it's easier to cheat for Matthews shot. A greasy 3rd wheel like Hyman or Laughton/Foligno is there to bang home those rebounds like we saw with Hyman tonight.

Why don't you like Foligno though? I've been a fan of Scott Laughton for a while. I remember when he was going through waivers and I was like "claim claim claim" - thought he had a solid playoff last year for the Flyers too.

Wouldn't consider Schwartz a pass first player or a guy that can't crash and bang in rebounds/tips, he's great around the net and in battles, brings a very strong and complete two-way game, does a lot of the little things.

He's more of a playmaker than a scorer but he's very much a dual threat.

Also it's great he's having a down year with a very low shooting percentage, would only help to acquire him with a more reasonable offer.

 

[123offtheglass]

That is what happens to a team that "lacks Folignos"... for lack of a better description.

For me the challenge is -- I'm not sure I'd "trust" Foligno as a 3rd line C; and I don't trust either Engvall or Kerfoot as the 3rd line C. I also question whether he moves around with enough pace to play on a line with what would likely be Mikheyev, Engvall, and/or Kerfoot.... plus there's the cap issue.

A Foligno is almost certainly going to cost you Kerfoot (or keeping Andersen LTIRed until the playoffs) and even at 50% retained, take up a lot of the flexibility you do have by moving Kerfoot.

Laughton at 50% retained is a deal I believe the Leafs can do today without subtraction.

Foligno would need to be retained by a third party team, not quite max retention again but almost.

 

[seanlinden]

Foligno would need to be retained by a third party team, not quite max retention again but almost.

Yeah, even at double-max retention, I'd personally still prefer Laughton.

Beyond the mobility and trust as a centre, Foligno at double-max is $1.375m. Laughton at 50% is $1.15m.

edit: Plus, to me, there is a scenario where Scott Laughton is a player that can be resigned and a longer term part of the group.

He's from the area, the UFA market is still likely to be quite depressed, maybe you can get him on a 2-year deal for a little bit less than Kerfoot's AAV. It's probably more of a wait & see approach rather than trade and sign immediately, but gives both sides a "preview".

 

[123offtheglass]

Yeah, even at double-max retention, I'd personally still prefer Laughton.

Beyond the mobility and trust as a centre, Foligno at double-max is $1.375m. Laughton at 50% is $1.15m.

I'm pretty indifferent between the two. Really like Foligno because of his toughness & great character but Laughton's very similar and brings some different elements of his game that are better like speed. I prefer Foligno but it's still possible that Laughton could turn out to be a better fit/player for them, and he'd likely be cheaper to acquire.

If they could give up < two 2nds (or prospects of that value) for Laughton/Iafallo & Oleksiak, along with two late round picks (or middling prospects) for a third party team to retain on them a 2nd time, I'd be all for that. That would be my favorite scenario besides the more rare possibility of acquiring just Schwartz. Although if it were jut Laughton, I'd be happy with that too.

Edit: yea the extension is a possibility I've thought of too. What does hurt his chances though is how much he loves playing in Phili, how much they love him, the fact that he's played there his whole career & most importantly the fact that his fiancé is from there and has been with him since he got there. Complicates things some.

 

[seanlinden]

I'm pretty indifferent between the two. Really like Foligno because of his toughness & great character but Laughton's very similar and brings some different elements of his game that are better like speed. I prefer Foligno but it's still possible that Laughton could turn out to be a better fit/player for them, and he'd likely be cheaper to acquire.

If they could give up < two 2nds (or prospects of that value) for Laughton & Oleksiak, along with two late round picks (or middling prospects) for a third party team to retain on them a 2nd time, I'd be all for that. That would be my favorite scenario besides the more rare possibility of acquiring just Schwartz. Although if it were jut Laughton, I'd be happy with that too.

Yeah I think if Toronto can come out of the deadline with the team they have, plus Laughton & Oleksiak, they have to be REALLY happy with what they have -- especially in terms of versatility which right now may be a little lacking.

They want to get into a bruising matchup? Oleksiak and Bogosian may be a better 3rd pair. They're going up against Edmonton, Dermott & Oleksiak might be an ideal pair. Somebody gets hurt, the 3rd pair could be Sandin-Bogosian, or Oleksiak-Liljegren.

It would leave goaltending as the only real questionmark IMO.... but at least with that, you have the bodies, it's just a question of health. The Leafs don't have an Oleksiak-type player that can step in when somebody gets hurt, and they don't have a Laughton-type to centre the 3rd line.

 

[123offtheglass]

Colorado Avalanche - Minnesota Wild - April 7th, 2021
ahhh I think this might encourage Colorado to go after another goalie. 8 goals against on 19 shots... Grubauer (11/18) & Johansson (0/1)...

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Unlike the ending of War Games (1983), the only losing move is not to (make a) play. Dubas has to add something to this team to shore ourselves up for a deep run.

The Islanders have got the dominoes falling now with their trade today. You know teams like Colorado, Vegas, and Carolina are also going to get serious about loading up. Leafs need to do the same. Whether that's adding a forward like they keep alluding to, getting depth on defense, or acquiring another goaltender, we should 100% make a move before 3pm Monday.

 

[123offtheglass]

Yeah I think if Toronto can come out of the deadline with the team they have, plus Laughton & Oleksiak, they have to be REALLY happy with what they have -- especially in terms of versatility which right now may be a little lacking.

They want to get into a bruising matchup? Oleksiak and Bogosian may be a better 3rd pair. They're going up against Edmonton, Dermott & Oleksiak might be an ideal pair. Somebody gets hurt, the 3rd pair could be Sandin-Bogosian, or Oleksiak-Liljegren.

It would leave goaltending as the only real questionmark IMO.... but at least with that, you have the bodies, it's just a question of health. The Leafs don't have an Oleksiak-type player that can step in when somebody gets hurt, and they don't have a Laughton-type to centre the 3rd line.

Nice thing too I forgot to add, Oleksiak is actually from Toronto if they found a way to resign him to a reasonable deal; just a possibility.

But yes Dubas and management would have to be really confident with this group but I think they've earned that; out of the North division this is a great opportunity.

Best case scenario, and I mean best case: they give up roughly two 2nds of trade value for Oleksiak & Laughton, win the cup with Campbell, say Dermott goes in the expansion draft, but they deal Kerfoot for a similar Joey Anderson like return once he gets his signing bonus, and the Leafs resign the two to hometown discounted bridge-deals in the still COVID market. Sandin & Liljegren rotate as the sheltered #6 d next season.

 

[seanlinden]

Nice thing too I forgot to add, Oleksiak is actually from Toronto if they found a way to resign him to a reasonable deal; just a possibility.

But yes Dubas and management would have to be really confident with this group but I think they've earned that; out of the North division this is a great opportunity.

Best case scenario, and I mean best case: they give up roughly two 2nds of trade value for Oleksiak & Laughton, win the cup with Campbell, say Dermott goes in the expansion draft, but they deal Kerfoot for a similar Joey Anderson like return once he gets his signing bonus, and the Leafs resign the two to hometown discounted bridge-deals in the still COVID market.

I don't believe Oleksiak is "resignable" given the financial commitments the Leafs have already made on D with Rielly/Brodie/Muzzin. There are simply too many teams that will pay $3-4m for him, maybe even close to $5m. Laughton is much more limited in the contributions he can potentially bring, which should in theory help depress his contractual demands.

That being said, you could, in theory, depending on whether you view him as a legit top 4 defenceman, consider leaving Muzzin exposed, and use Oleksiak to "backfill".

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Colorado Avalanche - Minnesota Wild - April 7th, 2021
ahhh I think this might encourage Colorado to go after another goalie. 8 goals against on 19 shots... Grubauer (11/18) & Johansson (0/1)...

Grubauer had a .926 going into this game. He had one bad game against a fairly good team. It is not a big deal.

If I am Colorado, I am more concerned about how I shape up against better teams. They are barely doing better than the Leafs/Caps/Islanders and they are playing in a division with 5 bad teams. Same goes for the Central teams. #1 in both of those divisions have an easy matchup because both of the #4's in the West and Central are nowhere near as good as the #4's in the North and East. In fact, the Rangers (who look like they could finish 5th in the East) are probably better than the #4 in the West and Central.

So will they be able to keep up with the teams in the North and East who are playing almost as well as they are and are doing so with only 3 bad teams in their division (and the East specifically has 4 good teams in their division)? Nowhere near as many easy points in those divisions and those top West and Central teams are not exactly outclassing those other divisions' top teams.

 

[Le Cobra]

Who among Foligno/ Laughton/Pearson is most like a Zack Hyman type player?

For the playoffs - We need grit, toughness, and dependability. I am not familiar with these three players to be able to provide a thorough assessment

 

[RealisticLeaf55]

My gut tells me we are making a move before deadline.

I'm indifferent on us getting Hall.

Would love Pearson and Foligno.

Max Domi would be intriguing but in most scenarios, retention must happen.

 

[OVO16]

Who among Foligno/ Laughton/Pearson is most like a Zack Hyman type player?

For the playoffs - We need grit, toughness, and dependability. I am not familiar with these three players to be able to provide a thorough assessment

Foligno provides the Most Grit/Physicality/Leadership out of the group. Laughton a close 2nd in terms of Grit. Foligno however is probably the less skilled out of the group, in terms of Points Production.

Would be something if we can somehow get both Laughton and Foligno

 

[IrishInOntario]

The "dream" scenario for me involves trades for Iafallo, Laughton and a depth defenseman such as Oleksiak, Reilly or Meryll.

This group would have me insanely confident heading into the playoffs...

Iafallo-Matthews-Marner
Galchenyuk-Tavares-Nylander
Laughton-Engvall-Hyman
Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Spezza
Simmonds
Jumbo

Reilly / Brodie
Muzzin / Holl
Oleksiak / Bogosian
Dermott

Campbell
Anderson

That third line would be a hell of a alot of fun and that 4th line would likely be the league's best. Iafallo would be plug and play beside Matthews, the way plays with Kopitar now.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Who among Foligno/ Laughton/Pearson is most like a Zack Hyman type player?

For the playoffs - We need grit, toughness, and dependability. I am not familiar with these three players to be able to provide a thorough assessment

Easily Laughton. The other two don't come anywhere near scoring enough.

Laughton or an Iafallo would easily be the best fits for our team, and even with retention, I doubt either cost a 1st round pick to acquire.

Pearson would be tied with Simmonds and Engvall for the worst ES PTS/60 on the team. Foligno would have that honour on his own. Neither should go for 2nd's even with retention.

 

[Judas Tavares]

2 off days coming up. This could be it.

 

[123offtheglass]

I don't believe Oleksiak is "resignable" given the financial commitments the Leafs have already made on D with Rielly/Brodie/Muzzin. There are simply too many teams that will pay $3-4m for him, maybe even close to $5m. Laughton is much more limited in the contributions he can potentially bring, which should in theory help depress his contractual demands.

That being said, you could, in theory, depending on whether you view him as a legit top 4 defenceman, consider leaving Muzzin exposed, and use Oleksiak to "backfill".

Teams will be even shorter for money, and maybe even cap, this offeason.

I see him making somewhere between Brandon Dillon @ 3.9m, & Radko Gudas @ 2.5m; those are actually really good recent comparables right?

For Laughton I'd think somewhere between Mattias Janmark @ 2.25m & Craig Smith @ 3.1m.
But there's even guys like Haula, Grant, Athanasiou, Soderberg, & Brassard who missed out and went for 1.75m, 1.5m, 1.2m, 1m & 1m; although Laughton is better than all of them.

Say Oleksiak signed a bridge deal for 3.1m & Laughton 2.9m, Hyman signs with term to 4.5m.

There's still some room for error, they could spend more for a different backup, maybe find another bargain goalie, or they could roll with it until they accrue some cap space to make a trade later like they are this season (there or elsewhere); maybe Hutch is next years Jimmy Vesey/Travis Boyd. Maybe Galchenyuk signs a cheap prove-it deal or Dubas goes bargain hunting elsewhere... who knows.

Those guys could run after a few 100k more elsewhere or maybe they want to play for their hometown team that's good.

I know this is a stretch but it's not impossible, something similar could happen. Oleksiak really isn't necessary but a bonus. I'm hoping the Leafs go after one of Goodrow, Laughton & Cizikas this offseason; Cizikas probably stays with the Island though.

 

[OVO16]

1. Kerfoot + 3rd + Hallander for Rickard Rakell
2. 2nd + 5th for Scott Laughton (50% Retained).

Rakell - Mathews - Marner
Galchenyuk - Tavares - Nylander
Hyman - Laughton - Simmonds
Engvall - Spezza - Mikheyev

 

[123offtheglass]

Who among Foligno/ Laughton/Pearson is most like a Zack Hyman type player?

For the playoffs - We need grit, toughness, and dependability. I am not familiar with these three players to be able to provide a thorough assessment

Pearson but he's like a Hyman.lite.lite.lite.lite

 

[IrishInOntario]

Dream scenario #2...

To Toronto
Alex Iafallo
Adrian Kempe

To LA
Basically anything they want within reason. Top prospects and the 1st round pick can be included, again, within reason.