Blue Jays Discussion: Trade deadline: Aug 31 (no, not that one. The other one. The waiver one)

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

The only possible scenario in which the money could have been better spent involves keeping Estrada and Happ (since they were the best signings of the offseason) and using the $16.5 million from Dickey/Liriano on someone better. Which, of course, would have meant a long-term commitment for a marginal upgrade.

Actually, that kind of makes for a fun hypothetical: if you could re-do this offseason, knowing what you currently know about how players would pitch this year, what would you do differently?

I don't know if its fair for #Zeke to get to sign Happ and Estrada in his scenario since he was so vehemently against both in the first place.

 

[Scrub*]

Fire shapiro, atkins and gibbons.

 

[Discoverer]

I don't know if its fair for #Zeke to get to sign Happ and Estrada in his scenario since he was so vehemently against both in the first place.

To be fair, you could probably put together a similar rotation by declining Dickey's option and signing Price and Rich Hill. Then you have Price, Stroman, Sanchez, Hill and Hutchison. Oh, right... and $1 million to try to cobble together some depth for when Sanchez needs some time off and Hill misses ten starts.

And that still puts the organization in a worse position than it's currently in.

Literally the only move I would make differently in the rotation would be to find a way to sign Hill.

 

[Eyedea]

Fire shapiro, atkins and gibbons.

Hire Zeke and Shaner

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Happ - $10 million
Estrada - $11.5 million
Dickey - $12 million
Liriano - $4.5 million

The Jays are paying those guys $38 million this season. There is absolutely no way they could have gotten better value for $38 million than what those guys have provided unless they gave out extremely long-term contracts or traded away a ton of prospects.

That's not entirely true Doug Fister would be a nice upgrade over Dickey and you're saving 5 mil and Fister was only a 1 year deal.

 

[zeke]

I don't know if its fair for #Zeke to get to sign Happ and Estrada in his scenario since he was so vehemently against both in the first place.

I wasn't vehemently against signing Estrada. I was vehemently against spending $37m on all of happ, estrada, and dickey.

thankfully i was wrong, and happ has indeed had a career year at age 33 and made it all worthwhile.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

To be fair, you could probably put together a similar rotation by declining Dickey's option and signing Price and Rich Hill. Then you have Price, Stroman, Sanchez, Hill and Hutchison. Oh, right... and $1 million to try to cobble together some depth for when Sanchez needs some time off and Hill misses ten starts.

And that still puts the organization in a worse position than it's currently in.

Literally the only move I would make differently in the rotation would be to find a way to sign Hill.

Only caveat there would be if one can conceivably think Hill could have managed the 2.9% HR/FB ratio pitching half his games at Rogers Centre (rather than O.Co and Chavez Ravine). Which seems a bit much.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I wasn't vehemently against signing Estrada. I was vehemently against spending $37m on all of happ, estrada, and dickey.

thankfully i was wrong, and happ has indeed had a career year at age 33 and made it all worthwhile.

Actually, I think he's on pace to have the same fWAR he did last year.

No shame being wrong on this one. I don't think anyone could have anticipated him having this kind of year, let alone actually signing back with the Blue Jays at all....

 

[Discoverer]

Actually, I think he's on pace to have the same fWAR he did last year.

Basically, yeah. But zeke has to make sure we know this is mostly just a fluke. That way he seems less wrong about it.

Happ's doing what most of us said made the contract a worthwhile risk: maintaining some of the improvements he made in Pittsburgh. Turns out it wasn't entirely caused by all those NL chumps.

From a sheer run-prevention standpoint, he's outperforming expectations, as I doubt anyone expected a 3.19 ERA and 4.5 RA9-WAR (and counting!). But his fielding independent numbers are all pretty much in line with expectations.

 

[zeke]

At age 33 he's about to set career bests in Starts, IP, IP/GS, ERA-, and match last year's career bests in fip- and xfip-.

That doesn't have to be a fluke to still be an unlikely outcome, else he would have cost much more this offseason.

But it definitely gives me more confidence in the FO's player analysis going forward. At least on the pitching side.

 

[zeke]

And hey, it's still not clear that a Price/Stroman/Estrada/Sanchez/Hutch/Osuna rotation wouldn't have been as good or better now and going forward.

 

[Longshot]

Actually, I think he's on pace to have the same fWAR he did last year.

No shame being wrong on this one. I don't think anyone could have anticipated him having this kind of year, let alone actually signing back with the Blue Jays at all....

We're all wrong on anticipated or "hoped for" transactions at times. It's part of being a sports fan.

I cringe when I think I thought Jiminez would have been a good signing a couple of years ago.

I remember Matt Garza was a popular target as a free agent on this board. And I shake my head when I think of the rage that accompanied the decision to let Melky walk in favour of the Saunders trade. I recall disbelief when Travis Snider was dealt. And I remember many insisting Chase Headley was the solution to the team's problems a few years ago. Just a year ago (before all the trades), Papblebon was the guy the Jays HAD to get.

But, I think it's important to acknowledge that in recent years Jays management has been right more than it has been wrong in its choices.

I really think arguing the Jays could have done better than a five-man rotation of Stroman, Sanchez, Happ, Estrada and Dickey and an in-season addition of Liriano is really nit picky and silly.

 

[TF97]

We're all wrong on anticipated or "hoped for" transactions at times. It's part of being a sports fan.

I cringe when I think I thought Jiminez would have been a good signing a couple of years ago.

I remember Matt Garza was a popular target as a free agent on this board. And I shake my head when I think of the rage that accompanied the decision to let Melky walk in favour of the Saunders trade. I recall disbelief when Travis Snider was dealt. And I remember many insisting Chase Headley was the solution to the team's problems a few years ago. Just a year ago (before all the trades), Papblebon was the guy the Jays HAD to get.

But, I think it's important to acknowledge that in recent years Jays management has been right more than it has been wrong in its choices.

I really think arguing the Jays could have done better than a five-man rotation of Stroman, Sanchez, Happ, Estrada and Dickey and an in-season addition of Liriano is really nit picky and silly.

I'd like to think that I am "smart" for wanting nothing to do with Melky, Garza, Ubaldo, Headley, etc. But then I remembered that I wanted AA to extend JJ a qualifying offer and bring back Morrow to pitch out of the pen

 

[Canada4Gold]

Wow, the GCL Jays had such a good record, I had just assumed they would be in the playoffs easily. They're 39-17, 2nd best record in the GCL by 5 games, but they just got eliminated because the team that's 1st is the Phillies 43-15 in their division. That was a tad surprising to notice.

Doesn't matter, but I was just surprised when I heard that.

 

[Shimso]

I'd like to think that I am "smart" for wanting nothing to do with Melky, Garza, Ubaldo, Headley, etc. But then I remembered that I wanted AA to extend JJ a qualifying offer and bring back Morrow to pitch out of the pen

don't worry, I wanted Morrow back too

 

[zeke]

Wow, the GCL Jays had such a good record, I had just assumed they would be in the playoffs easily. They're 39-17, 2nd best record in the GCL by 5 games, but they just got eliminated because the team that's 1st is the Phillies 43-15 in their division. That was a tad surprising to notice.

Doesn't matter, but I was just surprised when I heard that.

is bluefield in a playoffs spot?

 

[ShaneFalco]

 

[Bob Barker]

Quick question... I looked online but it was so confusing. Are Jays games blacked out on MLB.TV in Ontario?

 

[TorMapleJays]

Puig comming to Toronto?? Why wouldn't yeah

 

[Anthrax442]

Puig comming to Toronto?? Why wouldn't yeah

He will be in tandem with Teebow

 

[Muston Atthews]

Navarro and Eddy have such a bromance

 

[ShaneFalco]

Navarro and Eddy have such a bromance

lol yup

 

[inthe6ix]

Puig comming to Toronto?? Why wouldn't yeah

Yeah, make it happen RA.

2-3 WAR player with plenty of upside and he's got the bat flip down pat when JB leaves us:

 

[The Nemesis]

Puig comming to Toronto?? Why wouldn't yeah

The fact that he's on waivers means nothing. 90% of the league ends up on these waivers (revocable waivers) at this time of year with little to no intent of actually trading them. Because the reason these are revocable is that the team waiving the player can choose to yank them back off the wire if another team puts in a claim. Often times it's done as a way of measuring potential interest around the league and judging value. So that if the club has to look at moving a player in the off-season they have a starting point of who they might want to call.

and I wouldn't necessarily want him because after his screaming hot start to his career he's fallen hard and not only has he continued to slide, but there are those concerns about his character and his attitude.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Is anyone catching this Biagini interview? He's so awesome