GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread

[nobody]

Ben Chiarot is awful.

Ben Chiarot isn't awful. He's just miscast in his role for a team that is desperate for puck movers/offense from the backend. I think if you put Chiarot with Rielly and ask him to play a mean role and just focus on defense, he probably flourishes. The downside is that he's a UFA at the end of the year and will probably get paid somewhere so he would strictly be a rental.

 

[zeke]

Ben Chiarot isn't awful. He's just miscast in his role for a team that is desperate for puck movers/offense from the backend. I think if you put Chiarot with Rielly and ask him to play a mean role and just focus on defense, he probably flourishes. The downside is that he's a UFA at the end of the year and will probably get paid somewhere so he would strictly be a rental.

He's pretty terrible. At his best he's a workable physical #4 playing with a good partner but with the new crosschecking rules even that is questionable. He fits best as a bottom pair guy. And he's very expensive for that level of player.

He's not an upgrade.

 

[SprDaVE]

Seems more like a TDL move.

I don't think the Leafs are in the market to pay big for a 7th defenseman. I think they either want one back in a Holl/Dermott trade, or will move a guy like Engvall for one since Engvall could be on the outside looking in himself once Mikheyev comes back.

I also doubt Toronto is on Kessel's 8 team trade list. He hates our media.

Maybe there is a deal with Ritchie + prospect + pick for Larsson + Lyubushkin without retention at the TDL. Won't cost us much in terms of futures, they get something out of some low value UFA's without having to retain, and they get another wild card in Ritchie which may turn into more value next year.

Depends what we do before then. We may not need either of them.

I'd say the earlier the better. Cap space is important now, not later.

Kessel is not happening.

 

[Fogelhund]

He's pretty terrible. At his best he's a workable physical #4 playing with a good partner but with the new crosschecking rules even that is questionable. He fits best as a bottom pair guy. And he's very expensive for that level of player.

He's not an upgrade.

I'd agree that you wouldn't really want him playing with Mo, but as a bottom pairing guy (with the ability to move up), and PK guy, I think he'd be a very solid addition. He's a UFA at the end of the season, Montreal appears to be done, so I think it would be worth the ask, as to what they'd want at 50% of the Cap hit. Our D could use some size and physicality, and it seems to make sense that he might be available. I don't know that Lyubushkin would be better, and I'm not sure what the other options would be.... Chiarot is a local guy as well, so he might have interest playing closer to home.

So who would you look at as such an option?

 

[SprDaVE]

Don't we already have our own Chiarot in Justin Holl?

 

[The Podium]

Don't we already have our own Chiarot in Justin Holl?

Grass is always greener

 

[zeke]

I'd agree that you wouldn't really want him playing with Mo, but as a bottom pairing guy (with the ability to move up), and PK guy, I think he'd be a very solid addition. He's a UFA at the end of the season, Montreal appears to be done, so I think it would be worth the ask, as to what they'd want at 50% of the Cap hit. Our D could use some size and physicality, and it seems to make sense that he might be available. I don't know that Lyubushkin would be better, and I'm not sure what the other options would be.... Chiarot is a local guy as well, so he might have interest playing closer to home.

So who would you look at as such an option?

I think we're good.

We haven't played near our defensive potential yet and we're still what - 8th best defensively in the league?

 

[The Podium]

I think we're good.

We haven't played near our defensive potential yet and we're still what - 8th best defensively in the league?

Thats weird, I thought this team didnt know how to play D

 

[Magic Man]

I think Kase being one of the teams best non-core forwards seems to be a bit of a stretch. It would probably depend on who you ask, no one has really exploded onto the scene. I actually think you could make a case for all the forwards in comparison with Kase with some real arguments for why they're better or a better fit.

With Mikheyev coming back I think he is obviously taking a spot on that flawless 3rd line checking line. Which means one has to go. The obvious choice has been Engvall, they loaded the team in the summer with the intention of Kase taking Engvall's spot at the same price. I think from what I've seen that they're relatively similar, the stats back that up, they're identical in a few categories. If things were to continue this way all year I would rather Engvall in his 6'5 frame banging around in the post season, than Kase who can't withstand the punishment the same way. Engvall has been apart of this successful checking line as well and he and Kase each play 1:11 per game on the PK.

It may not translate as much when games are easier to find space, but size and physicality play a role when the checking gets tighter. You can see what a team like Montreal was able to do wth a group of average players that were very physically aggressive.

 

[zeke]

Don't we already have our own Chiarot in Justin Holl?

Pretty much. Holl isn't as useless with the puck as Chiarot but then Chiarot is definitely more physical.

 

[4thline]

Small deal

Engvall (+ maybe a C level prospect or future mid late pick) for Khaira @ 50%

We've been linked to him in the past, plays that same depth C/LW role, but with more nasty and night in/ night out intensity, plus big benefit of most of 700k cap space this year and a sub minimum depth player next year

 

[4thline]

I think Kase being one of the teams best non-core forwards seems to be a bit of a stretch. It would probably depend on who you ask, no one has really exploded onto the scene. I actually think you could make a case for all the forwards in comparison with Kase with some real arguments for why they're better or a better fit.

With Mikheyev coming back I think he is obviously taking a spot on that flawless 3rd line checking line. Which means one has to go. The obvious choice has been Engvall, they loaded the team in the summer with the intention of Kase taking Engvall's spot at the same price. I think from what I've seen that they're relatively similar, the stats back that up, they're identical in a few categories. If things were to continue this way all year I would rather Engvall in his 6'5 frame banging around in the post season, than Kase who can't withstand the punishment the same way. Engvall has been apart of this successful checking line as well and he and Kase each play 1:11 per game on the PK.

It may not translate as much when games are easier to find space, but size and physicality play a role when the checking gets tighter. You can see what a team like Montreal was able to do wth a group of average players that were very physically aggressive.

Despite being one knock away from retirement and like 5 inches shorter Kase is 10 times more physical and engaged than Engvall.

Like have you watched the Leafs play in the last two years? Bill's biggest fault is how timid he plays and how his size is an absolute waste other than his reach getting sticks into lanes.

 

[Amadeus]

Don't we already have our own Chiarot in Justin Holl?

Chariot is a guy I absolutely despise on the Habs. He's very tough and loved what I saw from him in the playoffs.

 

[Fogelhund]

Don't we already have our own Chiarot in Justin Holl?

They just bring different things to the table. Chiarot is quite a bit more physical, something I think we lack overall as a D-core.

 

[Magic Man]

Despite being one knock away from retirement and like 5 inches shorter Kase is 10 times more physical and engaged than Engvall.

Like have you watched the Leafs play in the last two years? Bill's biggest fault is how timid he plays and how is size is absolute waste other than his reach getting sticks into lanes.

I don't think all too much of either of their physical games. But, being 6'5 has it's perks, he's hard to knock off the puck, he's hard to move from the front of the net, he can protect the puck against pressure, he can absorb punishment and avoid injury. Outside of the obvious physically aggressive players Ritchie/Simmonds/Bunting/Matthews I think Engvall is one of the more likely players to become engaged with the opposition, like he did last night in the final moments.

I agree that Engvall is too timid, but Kase isn't a physical player.

Kase avoids physical confrontation, has always had a low hit count, he's injury prone in part because of his stature. I will admit that he is willing to go to the dirty areas and he will take a hit to make a play.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I don't think all too much of either of their physical games. But, being 6'5 has it's perks, he's hard to knock off the puck, he's hard to move from the front of the net, he can protect the puck against pressure, he can absorb punishment and avoid injury. Outside of the obvious physically aggressive players Ritchie/Simmonds/Bunting/Matthews I think Engvall is one of the more likely players to become engaged with the opposition, like he did last night in the final moments.

I agree that Engvall is too timid, but Kase isn't a physical player.

Kase avoids physical confrontation, has always had a low hit count, he's injury prone in part because of his stature. I will admit that he is willing to go to the dirty areas and he will take a hit to make a play.

Regarding the bolded I have heard the exact opposite from many fans of his previous teams. He is fearless to a fault and will often put himself into situation where he is likely to get laid out to make a pass or a shot etc. Not saying he is going around hitting people more that he doesn't avoid physical confrontation

 

[LeafChief]

I don't think all too much of either of their physical games. But, being 6'5 has it's perks, he's hard to knock off the puck, he's hard to move from the front of the net, he can protect the puck against pressure, he can absorb punishment and avoid injury. Outside of the obvious physically aggressive players Ritchie/Simmonds/Bunting/Matthews I think Engvall is one of the more likely players to become engaged with the opposition, like he did last night in the final moments.

I agree that Engvall is too timid, but Kase isn't a physical player.

Kase avoids physical confrontation, has always had a low hit count, he's injury prone in part because of his stature. I will admit that he is willing to go to the dirty areas and he will take a hit to make a play.

If the point you're trying to make is that Kase avoids physical contact, you haven't been watching the games and you definitely haven't watched him play before this season.

It is well document that the reason he has suffered so many injuries is because he doesn't back away from physical contact. He drives the net hard and is always working in the corners.

You don't have to like him. I think if he was playing with a more offensive centre he would put up more points. With that said, saying he avoids contact is just incorrect.

 

[Magic Man]

If the point you're trying to make is that Kase avoids physical contact, you haven't been watching the games and you definitely haven't watched him play before this season.

It is well document that the reason he has suffered so many injuries is because he doesn't back away from physical contact. He drives the net hard and is always working in the corners.

You don't have to like him. I think if he was playing with a more offensive centre he would put up more points. With that said, saying he avoids contact is just incorrect.

I said he is willing to go to the dirty areas and take a hit to make a play in my post.

He doesn't hit and he is not willing to engage in altercations. He isn't going to ever be the first guy into a scrum. His willingness to enter battle territory is admirable, but all he ever does is take punishment, he doesn't dish it out. He's undersized so he's losing a lot of the physical battles, that someone with greater size like Engvall could win.

I'm not saying he avoids contact. I'm saying I'd prefer Engvall to him moving forward because I think they should end up with same offensive and defensive contribution over the same time period being used the way they are. But, Engvall does it in a 6'5 package that has an aggressive streak at times. If everything else is equal but one plays center as well as wing, is 6'5 and can play with an edge and also passes the eye test more than the other. I have to lean that way. There is still some time to monitor it. Things could look different by the time they need to cut someone, if they ever do.

I'm also saying Kase isn't really a physical player.

 

[LeafsGuy16]

Is there anyone out there similar to a Bogosian (big third pair rhd) that may be available at trade deadline?

I think that’s the last piece to our d core. Bogosian was a big loss this past off season. Then trade one of Holl/Dermott and keep the remainder as our 7D.

Thoughts?

 

[stickty111]

Engvall is too soft for a big player and Keefe has gone over this with him multiple times. Kase is always in the play and goes to the tough areas. Kase should be in our everyday line over Engvall and really it's not close.

 

[stickty111]

I said he is willing to go to the dirty areas and take a hit to make a play in my post.

He doesn't hit and he is not willing to engage in altercations. He isn't going to ever be the first guy into a scrum. His willingness to enter battle territory is admirable, but all he ever does is take punishment, he doesn't dish it out. He's undersized so he's losing a lot of the physical battles, that someone with greater size like Engvall could win.

I'm not saying he avoids contact. I'm saying I'd prefer Engvall to him moving forward because I think they should end up with same offensive and defensive contribution over the same time period being used the way they are. But, Engvall does it in a 6'5 package that has an aggressive streak at times. If everything else is equal but one plays center as well as wing, is 6'5 and can play with an edge and also passes the eye test more than the other. I have to lean that way. There is still some time to monitor it. Things could look different by the time they need to cut someone, if they ever do.

I'm also saying Kase isn't really a physical player.

Neither does Engvall. This seems like an argument of prefering someone because of his height.
At times is stretching it. He literally plays like maybe once or twice a month. I would love to see what eye test you are referring too, because Kase has always stood out more, while Engvall is just there. He's a gentle giant You are going to be pretty disappointed who comes out when Mikhayev comes back.

 

[123offtheglass]

I'll just say I'm in complete disagreeance when it comes to some of the takes on Kase & the important aspects of 'physicality'; in my opinion, he'll play (as he should) every single game that he's healthy.

I'm much more impressed with Kase going to dirty areas & getting knocked to either make a play or slow down the opposition, than I am of Engvall saying who knows what to the opposition after the game is already over that they won.

 

[mydnyte]

Please explain why you say this.

if he's not allowed to x-check he loses 1/2 his ability to defend

 

[Legion34]

What UFA defence will be available for cheap next year?

bunting. Matthews. Marner
—————. Tavares. Nylander
—————. . Kampf. Kase.
Spezza. Simmonds.


Rielly. ———-
Muzz. Brodie
Sandin. Lilly

Campbell.

we can trade holl kerfoot mrazek easy if we have to. Ritchie is owed 3.3. So that might be tough if he doesn’t get it together

I almost wonder if gio would come for
Cheap? Dehaan? Manson?

We need a top 4 with rielly. And ideally a winger. But I am more confident that Robertson. Steeves. Could make 2 wingers

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

I'd look to sign Lindholm and trade muzz afterwards to the highest bidder.

Reilly Brodie
Lindholm Liljegren
Sandin Dermott