GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - Let the games begin

[SeaOfBlue]

Well, I don't think they share your opinion on this one.

The Rangers? They don't really have a choice in the matter. If Kravtsov is not reporting to them, which seems to be the case at this point, then his value is only going to continue to go down. They screwed up again, so now they should just salvage what they can and take a good hard look at why their organization has now pushed out TWO 22 year old former top 10 picks in back to back years.

If they want a better offer, then they better pray for a sucker, because they are hoping to beat out the historical price for much better and more valuable players in the same situation.

 

[dubplatepressure]

The Rangers? They don't really have a choice in the matter. If Kravtsov is not reporting to them, which seems to be the case at this point, then his value is only going to continue to go down. They screwed up again, so now they should just salvage what they can and take a good hard look at why their organization has now pushed out TWO 22 year old former top 10 picks in back to back years.

If they want a better offer, then they better pray for a sucker, because they are hoping to beat out the historical price for much better and more valuable players in the same situation.

IMO the price you proposed will easily be exceeded by other GMs, and rightfully so.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I've already posted this - a prospect in our 5 to 10 range and a 2nd... or Mikheyev. Seems with some internet digging it appears he's been shat on my the management group going back to last year, is quite unhappy with them, and doesn't see a role for him there in the top-6 with Panarin, Kakko, Lafreinere, and Kreider.

I'd love to take a flyer on this kid, just like I would have loved to take a flyer on Lias last year before LA scooped him up and were happy to see him succeed in their system.

Kravtsov, at best, is worth one of those things, just like Andersson. He is not worth both of those things.

I don't see why you think you would need to give up more for Kravtsov than you would Andersson. If anything, you should need to give up less.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

IMO the price you proposed will easily be exceeded by other GMs, and rightfully so.

The price I proposed is the same as Andersson received when they were in the same situation, and more than Nikita Filatov and Yakupov received when CBJ and EDM were done with them.

If the Rangers receive better, then good for them. We shouldn't be paying a premium for the guy who has the worst resume on that list. I would rather the Leafs have another shot at a guy like Knies or Robertson + Miettinen/Abruzzese than pay that for just Kravtsov.

 

[dubplatepressure]

The price I proposed is the same as Andersson received when they were in the same situation, and more than Nikita Filatov and Yakupov received when CBJ and EDM were done with them.

If the Rangers receive better, then good for them. We shouldn't be paying a premium for the guy who has the worst resume on that list. I would rather the Leafs have another shot at a guy like Knies or Robertson + Miettinen/Abruzzese than pay that for just Kravtsov.

Andersson was universally considered a disaster (in hindsight), and he's thriving in his new environment. So your baseline value comp is at best questionable. Anyway, we'll agree to disagree on value.

 

[Rude Dog]

Haven't watched much of Josh Manson over the last few years, and I understand he may not be the D many projected years ago. But thoughts on him as a Rielly replacement next summer for half the cost? Is this team much worse with a more seasoned Sandin, Lily and Manson back end a year from now?

 

[VanW27]

Haven't watched much of Josh Manson over the last few years, and I understand he may not be the D many projected years ago. But thoughts on him as a Rielly replacement next summer for half the cost? Is this team much worse with a more seasoned Sandin, Lily and Manson back end a year from now?

Josh Manson is a bottom pair defenseman, he's a Bogosian replacement not a Rielly replacement.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Andersson was universally considered a disaster (in hindsight), and he's thriving in his new environment. So your baseline value comp is at best questionable. Anyway, we'll agree to disagree on value.

And Kravtsov is not?

https://thehockeywriters.com/new-york-rangers-kravtsov-worries/
https://thehockeywriters.com/rangers-kravtsov-suspended-temper-tantrum/
New York Rangers Vitali Kravtsov refuses AHL assignment suspension - TSN.ca
https://www.foreverblueshirts.com/a...-journey-back-to-the-rangers-and-whats-ahead/
What to Make of Vitali Kravtsov’s North American Stint and Return to Russia
Jeff Gorton Needs To Take Control Of The Vitali Kravtsov Situation

And that is just the first page of a "Kravtsov struggles" Google search. Different coaches, different GM's, still a disaster. It's not like this situation came out of nowhere... It has been a problem for 2 years now.

What I haven't seen is any reason why you think teams are going to be paying more for Kravtsov than 3 players who were traded from the same situation but with much better resumes. It defies logic.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Haven't watched much of Josh Manson over the last few years, and I understand he may not be the D many projected years ago. But thoughts on him as a Rielly replacement next summer for half the cost? Is this team much worse with a more seasoned Sandin, Lily and Manson back end a year from now?

Thought on the first question: Do people realistically think there is a Rielly-replacement out there for half the cost?

Thought on the second question: Yes, significantly worse. We would have 2 legit top 4 defensemen in Muzzin and Brodie, three young guys who hopefully can step up into a top 4 role full time in Sandin, Dermott, and Liljegren, and then Manson who is an overpaid bottom pairing defenseman at this point and likely wouldn't even upgrade Holl.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

And Kravtsov is not?

https://thehockeywriters.com/new-york-rangers-kravtsov-worries/
https://thehockeywriters.com/rangers-kravtsov-suspended-temper-tantrum/
New York Rangers Vitali Kravtsov refuses AHL assignment suspension - TSN.ca
https://www.foreverblueshirts.com/a...-journey-back-to-the-rangers-and-whats-ahead/
What to Make of Vitali Kravtsov’s North American Stint and Return to Russia
Jeff Gorton Needs To Take Control Of The Vitali Kravtsov Situation

And that is just the first page of a "Kravtsov struggles" Google search. Different coaches, different GM's, still a disaster. It's not like this situation came out of nowhere... It has been a problem for 2 years now.

What I haven't seen is any reason why you think teams are going to be paying more for Kravtsov than 3 players who were traded from the same situation but with much better resumes. It defies logic.

I will also add in Jake Bean only received 44th overall from CBJ and had both AHL success and a full NHL season under his belt. Erik Brannstrom is also apparently available from Ottawa and likely could be had for a similar price as Bean. If I had to pay the price for someone, I would rather make it Brannstrom, even though there are question marks about how he would exactly fit in our organization himself.

 

[SprDaVE]

Feels like someone the Leafs should pick up... but... probably won't.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Feels like someone the Leafs should pick up... but... probably won't.

I imagine MTL will take him before he gets to us.

At least that may let Brooks hit waivers again, and if he clears, we can take him back and send him to the Marlies.

 

[zeke]

Feels like someone the Leafs should pick up... but... probably won't.

What makes him different than petan or Malgin?

 

[Buds17]

Feels like someone the Leafs should pick up... but... probably won't.

I'm not as certain he gets claimed this time around. Then again, I guess Seattle was quite low in the pecking order for waiver claims.

 

[SprDaVE]

What makes him different than petan or Malgin?

I wish Malgin was around to be honest but he isn't. He'd probably give us some nice speedy winger depth, something we lost with Robertson injured long-term.

I do think he's similar to Petan in terms of impact/skill level but Barret-Boulet is 2 years or so younger.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I wish Malgin was around to be honest but he isn't. He'd probably give us some nice speedy winger depth, something we lost with Robertson injured long-term.

I do think he's similar to Petan in terms of impact/skill level but he's 2 years or so younger.

I don't blame Malgin for staying in Switzerland. Let him dominate over there and maybe at some point he comes back and can be something for us.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I don’t even get how this is even a debate, the forever angry crew really think that overpaying at the bottom end is better than overpaying at the top? Do we not remember having David Clarkson? Overpaying at the bottom means you have no chance of upgrading the lineup and acquiring top end talent. Give me top end talent everyday over paid or not. I mean obviously the best is stars on great deals, but that didn’t happen.. boohoo.

Wasn't Clarkson supposed to be an elite players when we got him? That was the story anyway.

So a not quite elite player signed for too much as a free agent, who we then couldn't get rid of.

And we've done it all over again with Tavares. And in three years, when he's the same age as Komarov is now, and about as useful (in a different way), will we be able to bury him in the minors?

 

[notDatsyuk]

If Uncle Lou is willing to eat some of Komarov's salary I would easily acquire him for a 3rd/4th line role. He is exactly what this team needs. Players that get into others faces, can PK and chip in offensively.

Engvall for Komarov (Islanders pick up difference in contracts)

I'm not sure Lou would make that trade, even with no retention.

 

[Rude Dog]

Thought on the first question: Do people realistically think there is a Rielly-replacement out there for half the cost?

Thought on the second question: Yes, significantly worse. We would have 2 legit top 4 defensemen in Muzzin and Brodie, three young guys who hopefully can step up into a top 4 role full time in Sandin, Dermott, and Liljegren, and then Manson who is an overpaid bottom pairing defenseman at this point and likely wouldn't even upgrade Holl.

Fairly easy answer. Not a chance. The question isn't whether they can replace him for half the cost. The question is how much worse would the D be if they brought in an Olesiak type? Someone more physical and perhaps more defensively responsible (but is still capable of making a first pass). I think Sandin can replace what Rielly brings on the offensive side, it's his own zone which is the issue. He would have to be partnered with a stay at home D.

End of the day, the Leafs are losing Rielly. Just not sure how they are going to address it. If Sandin and Lily show they aren't capable of being regular NHL players, there could be big problems. Personally I don't see it. I think they can both play.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Interesting. I just figured fans would welcome his style of play to our bottom 6. I definitely wouldnt want him at the cap hit he currently holds. But if he were to be released or dealt with some if his contract paid by someone else. I thought for sure he would be useful for what we all want to see.

Didnt know his game dropped off so bad.

He's another player like Hyman - good while playing for the Leafs, but was always totally useless as soon as he leaves.

 

[LeafChief]

I love the Toronto Maple Leafs.

 

[notDatsyuk]

There’s a reason Lou Lamoriello is waiving him

I love Leo, was one of my favourite Leafs, but he’s no longer NHL quality.

I imagine he’ll go finish his career in the KHL starting next year

Last year they lost their captain and leading scorer, replaced him on the top like with Komarov, and were within a goal or two of the finals, in which they probably would have beaten Montreal.

We lost out captain and couldn't win a round.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Haven't watched much of Josh Manson over the last few years, and I understand he may not be the D many projected years ago. But thoughts on him as a Rielly replacement next summer for half the cost? Is this team much worse with a more seasoned Sandin, Lily and Manson back end a year from now?

Yes. Josh Manson is sub-replacement level at this point. The Ducks get SHELLED when he's on the ice and it's been this way for a few years now.

 

[The Podium]

Thought on the first question: Do people realistically think there is a Rielly-replacement out there for half the cost?

Thought on the second question: Yes, significantly worse. We would have 2 legit top 4 defensemen in Muzzin and Brodie, three young guys who hopefully can step up into a top 4 role full time in Sandin, Dermott, and Liljegren, and then Manson who is an overpaid bottom pairing defenseman at this point and likely wouldn't even upgrade Holl.

Hampus Lindholm is a UFA this off-season and probably gives us 80% of what Reilly brings but should be a 6-6.5 mill signing.

Feels like someone the Leafs should pick up... but... probably won't.

Would be solid with Spezza and Simmonds. Gives Spezza an offensive option. He’s always been a great goal scorer and can give us some much needed depth scoring. Also can fill in higher in the lineup if there are injuries to the big boys.

 

[Fogelhund]

Haven't watched much of Josh Manson over the last few years, and I understand he may not be the D many projected years ago. But thoughts on him as a Rielly replacement next summer for half the cost? Is this team much worse with a more seasoned Sandin, Lily and Manson back end a year from now?

I was as big a fan of Manson as anyone. I still think he has some game though, but as a physical 3rd pairing guy. That's more of a $1 mil, or less type a guy and he's at $4.1 mil. Even with retention, you aren't getting value, let alone having to trade something to get him.

I do like the idea of going after Kravtsov though... but moreseo, because I wonder if you could shake Schneider free from the Rangers... Schneider could become that physical guy we need, and currently they have Trouba and Fox long-term on the Right Side of their D, plus rookie Nils Lundkvist, who did really well in the SHL last year.

I'd probably call Chicago and see what they are thinking with Strome... They are tight to the cap though.