GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART VIII

[dubplatepressure]

This place is ridiculous

On pace for 116pts and we’re ready to blow it all up because of a couple bad games.

See, every year many fans are very vocal in pointing out the number of red flags to warrant apprehension or concern over how the team is playing relative to playoff success. And like clockwork, every year these voices are opposed by many like yours who offer dismissive rationale as to why "its ok". And every year we get bounced in the first round.

The regular season is irrelevant. 116 points or 102 or 128 means nothing. It's how they are winning and losing that IMO is more indicative of playoff success. And my friend, there are many red flags.

 

[LeafChief]

I feel we have too much of the same player on this roster. Engvall/Mikheyev/Kase/Kampf/Spezza all play roughly the same way.

 

[Kurtz]

See, every year many fans are very vocal in pointing out the number of red flags to warrant apprehension or concern over how the team is playing relative to playoff success. And like clockwork, every year these voices are opposed by many like yours who offer dismissive rationale as to why "its ok". And every year we get bounced in the first round.

The regular season is irrelevant. 116 points or 102 or 128 means nothing. It's how they are winning and losing that IMO is more indicative of playoff success. And my friend, there are many red flags.

Surely by "every year" you mean just last year? Because the year before that everyone agreed that the team stunk heading into the series with CBJ - even Dubas to a large degree. And years prior we were the young underdogs not expected to win.

Last year was the first year in a long long time where we actually looked good and had optimism but failed.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Surely by "every year" you mean just last year? Because the year before that everyone agreed that the team stunk heading into the series with CBJ - even Dubas to a large degree. And years prior we were the young underdogs not expected to win.

Last year was the first year in a long long time where we actually looked good and had optimism but failed.

I'm so happy that Dubas didn't try to add at the deadline against that Blue Jackets series. That team really did not deserve a deadline acquisition. Should've sold Barrie for anything but oh well

 

[ChazzMichaelMichaels]

I feel we have too much of the same player on this roster. Engvall/Mikheyev/Kase/Kampf/Spezza all play roughly the same way.

Really? I see them all as fairly drastically different. Maybe some similarities between Engvall and Mik but other than that not too similar.

 

[Shooter2x]

Jakob Chychrun & Lawson Crouse
for
Alex Kerfoot, Matthew Knies, Travis Dermott, Joey Anderson & 1st
OR
Alex Kerfoot, Matthew Knies, Topi Niemela, Justin Holl & 2nd

Crouse - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Mikheyev - - Kampf - - Kase
Engvall - Spezza - Simmonds

Rielly - - - - Brodie
Chychrun - Sandin
Muzzin - Lybushkin
(Muzzin returns for playoffs)

Lack of grit in the top 6 is not an issue.

We don't have a cup worthy bottom 6. The only time they get praise in the last month is when Habs already go up 5-0. The only player I'd fight to keep is Kampf (or Kerfoot if he gets pushed to line 3). If you told me Dubas is getting rid of one of the other 5 I'd sit here without a care in the world.

Save those assets for a D, not Crouse. Target cheap Goodrow clones for the bottom 6 who are hungry to put their heart on their sleeves for a playoff run. Mik/Engvall/Kase/Spezza will get tossed around and teams aren't scared of Simmonds. After he fights once , he's done. Opponent throws a big hit, Simmonds jumps in. You're telling me Simmonds is going to fight 2-3 times a game? Once he fights once they'll just go back to bullying us around because they know he's finished for the day. We need tenacious forecheckers and guys who will wear the opponent down all game. We've become loyal to the wrong guys. Mik and Engvall are not going to do that, Neither is Spezza or Kase. Kase looks like he should be the 4th line right wing right now and Simmonds out of the lineup entirely. If Kase tries to repeat his first half he will end up on LTIR

 

[dubplatepressure]

Surely by "every year" you mean just last year? Because the year before that everyone agreed that the team stunk heading into the series with CBJ - even Dubas to a large degree. And years prior we were the young underdogs not expected to win.

Last year was the first year in a long long time where we actually looked good and had optimism but failed.

No I mean every year - there was plenty of optimism the previous years also.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I feel we have too much of the same player on this roster. Engvall/Mikheyev/Kase/Kampf/Spezza all play roughly the same way.

Agreed. We need another Bunting-type

 

[Kurtz]

No I mean every year - there was plenty of optimism the previous years also.

You really think this board was optimistic the year of the Columbus series? That's just not the case at all.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Surely by "every year" you mean just last year? Because the year before that everyone agreed that the team stunk heading into the series with CBJ - even Dubas to a large degree. And years prior we were the young underdogs not expected to win.

Last year was the first year in a long long time where we actually looked good and had optimism but failed.

That's not true at all. You could say the team stunk but that's because we had a ton of injuries. Going into that series however, everyone was healthy except Johnsson (not a huge loss) so no reason at all to expect us to play play as poorly as we did.

Both series against Boston we weren't even big dogs, both series were 100% winnable and we were right there with them until we inexplicably stopped competing in game 7 (which has now become our trademark).

 

[Kurtz]

That's not true at all. You could say the team stunk but that's because we had a ton of injuries. Going into that series however, everyone was healthy except Johnsson (not a huge loss) so no reason at all to expect us to play play as poorly as we did.

Both series against Boston we weren't even big dogs, both series were 100% winnable and we were right there with them until we inexplicably stopped competing in game 7 (which has now become our trademark).

This isn't factual. Everyone was done with Babcock and the team in the Columbus year. Dubas didn't even bother to do anything at the deadline he was so done. Many expected a victory over CBJ because CBJ also stunk but no one had any hope that that team had a run in them.

In both Boston series, sure we had a chance, but that's not what the OP stated. His statement was that many on this board was content with the team heading into the playoffs. That just wasn't the case heading into either Boston series - there was never anything remotely resembling a consensus on here that we would beat them.

 

[dubplatepressure]

You really think this board was optimistic the year of the Columbus series? That's just not the case at all.

100% absolutely they expected to beat Columbus.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Really? I see them all as fairly drastically different. Maybe some similarities between Engvall and Mik but other than that not too similar.

Kampf is a specialist so we shouldn't mess around with him. I think we can experiment with the others though, and not miss a beat.

 

[Kurtz]

100% absolutely they expected to beat Columbus.

Most did expect to beat CBJ because CBJ were a weak team, but few on this board expected us to get further than that.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This isn't factual. Everyone was done with Babcock and the team in the Columbus year. Dubas didn't even bother to do anything at the deadline he was so done. Many expected a victory over CBJ because CBJ also stunk but no one had any hope that that team had a run in them.

In both Boston series, sure we had a chance, but that's not what the OP stated. His statement was that many on this board was content with the team heading into the playoffs. That just wasn't the case heading into either Boston series - there was never anything remotely resembling a consensus on here that we would beat them.

So because Dubas "did nothing" at the deadline, you figure that's a sign that we're expecting to lose? I guess we'll agree to disagree here, we were stacked with talent and fully healthy, I was expecting to beat CLB myself.

As far as Boston goes, what's this "consensus" stuff? There's never any "consensus" here, what does that have to do with anything? Both times we were underdogs but not big underdogs, maybe 40-45% chance to win both times which isn't that much. so why would you just pencil in losses in that spot? Were talking about a team that finished just 7 points or whatever ahead of us over an 82 game season, why would you assume we would lose? I was optimistic myself and thought we could compete both times and like I said earlier, we proved we could compete by doing so right up until the very end when we faded away in game 7 like we always do.

Or are you going to tell me that going in to game 7 against Boston, you never thought we had a chance because there was no "consensus"?

 

[Apex Predator]

You really think this board was optimistic the year of the Columbus series? That's just not the case at all.

Despite the struggles leading up to it the board was optimistic playing the blue jackets. Now people won’t admit it but they were very optimistic. Coming of the covid break usually hockey is a bit more scoring at the beginning of a long break. That was an advantage for the Leafs given how they start years scoring a ton of goals.

This is the first year that a lot of posters aren’t optimistic. It has come off as being very negative but leaf fans have been burned way too many times to be confident about anything.

 

[TMLAM34]

It’s just a little concerning when bigger teams have their way with us due to physicality and shutting us down. Our goaltending hasn’t helped either though.

 

[WTFMAN99]

It’s just a little concerning when bigger teams have their way with us due to physicality and shutting us down. Our goaltending hasn’t helped either though.

Goaltending has dropped off a lot. Campbell was always due to come back down to earth but now he's underperforming. Needs to stabilize.

Top line is a consistent offensive threat. 2nd line is not producing enough at 5v5. Kampf-Kase has been a nice little duo on line 3. The rest of the line up doesn't seem like they have synergy.

We probably need 2 top 4 defenseman or a really good RD partner to go with Sandin on 2nd pairing.

 

[showtime8]

I feel we have too much of the same player on this roster. Engvall/Mikheyev/Kase/Kampf/Spezza all play roughly the same way.

This is the on-going conversations that we have on this team though and I agree with what you're saying.

When the Leafs are winning, they're being carried by the top line and good goaltending. When they're losing, it's poor goaltending and no compete from anyone through the line-up.

Then after brutal efforts, we revert to making trades for grittier type players, that won't fit the line-up and won't change the overall make-up of the line-up because they will be a lone wolf. The style of play with the Leafs is puck possession and skating. They get exposed when they don't work hard and don't compete/skate.

There won't be major changes in season. They've already established an entire roster the way they feel a roster should be constructed. We knew what was missing after the last 2 playoff let downs and they failed to make significant changes. They've essentially made their bed at this point.

 

[showtime8]

It’s just a little concerning when bigger teams have their way with us due to physicality and shutting us down. Our goaltending hasn’t helped either though.

And when the play ramps in the playoffs, this will become even more apparent.

 

[ULF_55]

This is the on-going conversations that we have on this team though and I agree with what you're saying.

When the Leafs are winning, they're being carried by the top line and good goaltending. When they're losing, it's poor goaltending and no compete from anyone through the line-up.

Then after brutal efforts, we revert to making trades for grittier type players, that won't fit the line-up and won't change the overall make-up of the line-up because they will be a lone wolf. The style of play with the Leafs is puck possession and skating. They get exposed when they don't work hard and don't compete/skate.

There won't be major changes in season. They've already established an entire roster the way they feel a roster should be constructed. We knew what was missing after the last 2 playoff let downs and they failed to make significant changes. They've essentially made their bed at this point.

Is a 2nd. pairing defender a major change? Probably not, but it isn't a minor tweak either.

What is Dubas willing to give up to fill that positional chasm?

If Muzzin is gone for the year, which he should be if his propensity for being concussed has increased, they have a hole today they did not have yesterday.

I don't think Sandin is ready for that role, and it might be Dermott never will be.

Unless there's a minor league player who can jump in something will be done.

 

[mydnyte]

Most did expect to beat CBJ because CBJ were a weak team, but few on this board expected us to get further than that.

i dont know why... they had the identical record we did, and were in my opinion the worst possible match for us, because they were big strong and defensive, and the exact style we suck against.
I was surprised we did as well as we did against them. i was expecting them to do to us, what they did the next round to TB

 

[Sypher04]

With Muzzin going down, priorities obviously shift, a #3D is now almost as important as a #1G is. (Not that Muzzin has played close to #3D quality this year)

#4D and any forward additions are frills. They are not absolutely needed, but they’d be great

 

[Kurtz]

So because Dubas "did nothing" at the deadline, you figure that's a sign that we're expecting to lose? I guess we'll agree to disagree here, we were stacked with talent and fully healthy, I was expecting to beat CLB myself.

As far as Boston goes, what's this "consensus" stuff? There's never any "consensus" here, what does that have to do with anything? Both times we were underdogs but not big underdogs, maybe 40-45% chance to win both times which isn't that much. so why would you just pencil in losses in that spot? Were talking about a team that finished just 7 points or whatever ahead of us over an 82 game season, why would you assume we would lose? I was optimistic myself and thought we could compete both times and like I said earlier, we proved we could compete by doing so right up until the very end when we faded away in game 7 like we always do.

Or are you going to tell me that going in to game 7 against Boston, you never thought we had a chance because there was no "consensus"?

You've digressed into weird and unrelated territory here. No one has claimed that everyone here expected a loss against Boston. Everyone was hoping for a win but very few were convinced that we were a contender as constituted in those years.

The only time that this board had general consensus in the expectation that we should beat our opponent and then possibly go far was last year against the Habs.

 

[Kurtz]

i dont know why... they had the identical record we did, and were in my opinion the worst possible match for us, because they were big strong and defensive, and the exact style we suck against.
I was surprised we did as well as we did against them. i was expecting them to do to us, what they did the next round to TB

You might be thinking of CBJ the year prior to that when they went all-in with Panarin, Duchene etc. The team we played was the watered-down version.