GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART VII

[Rude Dog]

Every time I do not want a certain player that is exactly who the Leafs get. Started with Pleks, Foligno and now maybe Chairot. No interest. Either make a move and sacrifice some of the future for a potential difference maker or stick with what you have. Chychrun is only only available guy for me who moves the needle. Braun for a 3rd would also be great as a depth move.

 

[Stephen]

The problem is that we won't be drafting much the next few years. As of now we only have 8 picks over the next 2 years. We're good at drafting but you're not going to remain a contender forever picking once in the first round in 4 years.

It's not a clear cut situation, because the Leaf core is still very young. For example, our best player, Auston Matthews is still our 3rd youngest player on the roster, and if you looked at the top 30 scorers in the NHL at the moment, there are only a handful of guys who are younger (Tkachuk, Fox, Makar). Our second best player, Mitch Marner, is only a few months older than him. Both have yet to reach 25.

If we hit on an additional bluchipper in the first round in any of the next 2-3 drafts and added a 5th to the Big 4 on an ELC, it would be an absolutely huge coup for the franchise. But if you're trying to win a cup, the draft isn't going to be the top priority.

 

[Maplebeasts]

It's not a clear cut situation, because the Leaf core is still very young. For example, our best player, Auston Matthews is still our 3rd youngest player on the roster, and if you looked at the top 30 scorers in the NHL at the moment, there are only a handful of guys who are younger (Tkachuk, Fox, Makar). Our second best player, Mitch Marner, is only a few months older than him. Both have yet to reach 25.

If we hit on an additional bluchipper in the first round in any of the next 2-3 drafts and added a 5th to the Big 4 on an ELC, it would be an absolutely huge coup for the franchise. But if you're trying to win a cup, the draft isn't going to be the top priority.

No but this current year I don't see a defenseman available who will both move the needle enough and isn't ridiculously overpriced. Guys like Chiarot and Manson are in no way worth a first rounder. I also don't want to pay the reported asking price for Hagel either.

 

[jaric1862]

If they're able to re-sign Chiarot, I think the price is worth it

 

[BertCorbeau]

While I'm not advocating trading our first, it's worth mentioned that Dubas has shown some ability to draft well outside of the first round so far .. I mean they haven't proven it yet but they're tracking very well. Looking at Knies and Robertson. Then you add in others like Niemela.

So there isn't a lot of clear cut high end blue chippers in the pool now, there's still a lot of depth in the pool to get meaningful contributors.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I think it depends if you think the core can win as is and just needs cheap support pieces to fuel some runs, or if maybe you have your Ovi/Backstrom/Kuznetsov/Carlson but you still need to hit a Wilson to take the next step.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

If they're able to re-sign Chiarot, I think the price is worth it

I still don't know why we would want to trade for / extend a defensemen that isn't any better than the 7 guys we have now.

He's a penalty machine and has been a disaster this year.

 

[meefer]

Not trying to sell a trade here, but is Scott Laughton on Philly someone who would benefit our team? According to Daily Faceoff, he's their 2nd line C. He's avg 16.25 TOI, and does some PP and PK work too. His point totals year over year are not impressive (10/13/23/45 games this year), but he is contributing on almost 20% of the goals the Flyers have scored this year. His shooting percentage is 12.4%, a bit higher than his just north of 10% career avg. + plus he hits (100 so far this year), will drop the gloves and he's signed for 3 more years after this at 3M/. Would he be a help on JT's line with Nylander, offering some nastiness and perhaps unrealized scoring potential? 27 years old, 6'1/190 lbs. Would there be potential to twin him in a deal with Braun?

My second player to ask about; Michael McLeod out of NJ. 24, 4th line C, 6'2"/190 lbs. Another underwhelming scorer (14 points this year in 46 games), but as a 4C, is that his job? A very good skater, PKer, I'm wondering if he would work well beside Spezza/Simmonds on the right side, and Engvall on the left. He's 7th in the league with a 58.5% on the dot, carries a .975K this year and next. As various sources have suggested Severson as an option for the Leafs to pursue for RD, again could we twin McLeod to a potential deal? McLeod, like Laughton, also hits, with 92 this year and looks to be able to take care of himself when the gloves come off, and he protects his teammates.

Obviously, I'd like to see some more physically inclined players on the team, but I don't want scrubs. Any thoughts?

 

[Bigmarycombo]

You either need a LW that will jolt JT-88 or mix up

Bunting-Matthews-88
X-JT-Marner

If JT and 88 need someone to jolt them then we should trade them for somebody who doesn’t need a jolt. It would be extremely stupid for Keefe to break up arguably the best duo in the nhl right now- it’s up to 88 to start playing with passion like he did at the first of the year.

I can honestly say that up to this year I was not a fan of 88. In my opinion he only turned it on when he wanted and played meh the rest of the time. He left me wanting more because I could see the talent he has but not always used it. Fast forward to this year. The first couple of months he has me, digging for pucks, using his size and strength to take the man off the puck and going hard to the ugly areas where you pay a price. Then fast forward to now. 88 back to the same inconsistent not getting involved players he has shown in the past. He and JT has been missing in ac5ion for the last 6 weeks or so.

 

[Puckstuff]

Nylander suffers from what I call Nazem Kadri contract syndrome. It’s when a player plays to his contract not his capability. Nylander is good enough to score 90 points IMHO.

 

[Bluelines]

It's not a clear cut situation, because the Leaf core is still very young. For example, our best player, Auston Matthews is still our 3rd youngest player on the roster, and if you looked at the top 30 scorers in the NHL at the moment, there are only a handful of guys who are younger (Tkachuk, Fox, Makar). Our second best player, Mitch Marner, is only a few months older than him. Both have yet to reach 25.

If we hit on an additional bluchipper in the first round in any of the next 2-3 drafts and added a 5th to the Big 4 on an ELC, it would be an absolutely huge coup for the franchise. But if you're trying to win a cup, the draft isn't going to be the top priority.

I get what you are saying and don't disagree that the Cup is the most important thing but I have a big issue trading a couple of weeks of service (TDL pickup) for multiple years of service (picks or prospects). For me to trade a 1st, the guy coming back better have term or for me , it's no deal. Trading the future for the now tells me two things, 1) Your team did not do well addressing the lineup through drafting and 2) you as a GM failed to assess the needs of your team. IMO it's not a vote of confidence in your plan when you have to gut your future to protect today.

Generally speaking, trading a 1st + prospects for a young impact player under control (Jacob Chycrun), for multiple years this makes sense to me, trading a 1st for a player who is at the end of his career, on an expiring contract and someone you are not likely to retain (Foligno), makes little sense to me.

For me the thought that you HAVE to make a big trade at the TDL is old school thinking. If you drafted , developed and signed with purpose, you should only have to tinker, to have interchangeable pieces, in the case of injuries.

 

[TMLAM34]

To Toronto: Brandon Hagel
To Chicago: Travis Dermott + Nicholas Abruzzese + 2022 1st Rounder

To Toronto: Mark Pysyk
To Buffalo: 2023 3rd Rounder

To Toronto: Isaac Ratcliffe + Derrick Brassard + Linus Sandin
To Philadelphia: Nick Ritchie


Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Nylander - Tavares - Hagel
Mikheyev - Kerfoot - Kase
Engvall - Kampf - Simmonds/Spezza

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Liljegren/Holl
Sandin - Pysyk

Campbell - Mrazek

 

[Stigma]

Not trying to sell a trade here, but is Scott Laughton on Philly someone who would benefit our team? According to Daily Faceoff, he's their 2nd line C. He's avg 16.25 TOI, and does some PP and PK work too. His point totals year over year are not impressive (10/13/23/45 games this year), but he is contributing on almost 20% of the goals the Flyers have scored this year. His shooting percentage is 12.4%, a bit higher than his just north of 10% career avg. + plus he hits (100 so far this year), will drop the gloves and he's signed for 3 more years after this at 3M/. Would he be a help on JT's line with Nylander, offering some nastiness and perhaps unrealized scoring potential? 27 years old, 6'1/190 lbs. Would there be potential to twin him in a deal with Braun?

My second player to ask about; Michael McLeod out of NJ. 24, 4th line C, 6'2"/190 lbs. Another underwhelming scorer (14 points this year in 46 games), but as a 4C, is that his job? A very good skater, PKer, I'm wondering if he would work well beside Spezza/Simmonds on the right side, and Engvall on the left. He's 7th in the league with a 58.5% on the dot, carries a .975K this year and next. As various sources have suggested Severson as an option for the Leafs to pursue for RD, again could we twin McLeod to a potential deal? McLeod, like Laughton, also hits, with 92 this year and looks to be able to take care of himself when the gloves come off, and he protects his teammates.

Obviously, I'd like to see some more physically inclined players on the team, but I don't want scrubs. Any thoughts?

I like your McLeod idea. I consider him one of the better 4C's in the league (IMO) and an ideal 4C for Toronto given some of the attributes you just mentioned. A local guy too. Two questions though.....why would NJ do this? I know he's an upcoming RFA, but wouldn't his upcoming contract be very manageable? Second, what would a solid 4C cost? I'm not sure. Dermott? Holl?

I guess if NJ are really desperate for a servicable defender, like Dermott or Holl, some kind of deal can be made. Given what I saw from NJ's defense last week, maybe they should dangle McLeod. Just a putrid D core. Or, maybe we just rent him and they re-sign him in the summer. In that case, we can maybe give up a C prospect? Dunno.

 

[TMLAM34]

I think you easily get McLeod if you offered up Dermott. Don’t think New Jersey would really have to think much about that deal.

 

[Torontonian]

The problem is that we won't be drafting much the next few years. As of now we only have 8 picks over the next 2 years. We're good at drafting but you're not going to remain a contender forever picking once in the first round in 4 years.

I truly don't think the current GM and President care about that right now, It's one of those situations where the next person can worry about that, Dubas himself has pushed all his chips to the middle of the table and is willing to get fired over this core.

Dubas and Shanny number one worry right now is getting results out of this group or they lose there job, if they have a chance to trade a first for results now, there going to do it.

 

[Bluelines]

I truly don't think the current GM and President care about that right now, It's one of those situations where the next person can worry about that, Dubas himself has pushed all his chips to the middle of the table and is willing to get fired over this core.

Dubas and Shanny number one worry right now is getting results out of this group or they lose there job, if they have a chance to trade a first for results now, there going to do it.

That makes me cringe, I think you are dead on with that statement though. If Matthews and Marner leave as UFA's, I can see in 3 to 5 years this team being a cellar dweller again. I'm not sure if I would still be engaged with the franchise if that happened. I got 40 years of watching, cheering for this franchise and I find each year my give a shit level drops just a little.

 

[dubplatepressure]

That makes me cringe, I think you are dead on with that statement though. If Matthews and Marner leave as UFA's, I can see in 3 to 5 years this team being a cellar dweller again. I'm not sure if I would still be engaged with the franchise if that happened. I got 40 years of watching, cheering for this franchise and I find each year my give a shit level drops just a little.

The window is now whether we like it or not. Expect 1st and 2nds to be traded regularly while they try and capitalize on this window with this core.

 

[dubplatepressure]

To Toronto: Brandon Hagel
To Chicago: Travis Dermott + Nicholas Abruzzese + 2022 1st Rounder

I can't for the life of me figure out why we're trading 1sts and decent prospects for middle 6 scoring wingers. All of our beans should go towards a top-4 D ideally one with term, but not necessarily needed.

 

[pspot]

I think you easily get McLeod if you offered up Dermott. Don’t think New Jersey would really have to think much about that deal.

I"m not sure about that but McLeod would be a great add, strong in faceoffs, nice mix of size and skating

 

[4thline]

Our (apparent, not yet born fruit) ability to land good players outside of the first was already mentioned, but another thing mitigate the harm to our pipeline is recruitment and UDFA's. We've shown a strong ability to not only land big fish, but have a decent hit rate.

2019- Mikheyev, Duszak, Kivihalme - one strong middle-six forward,
2020-Barabanov, Lehtonen - another .5 point per game middle 6 wing (admittedly buried by our depth, found a home elsewhere and succeeded immediately
2021- Semyonov, Steeves, Gogolev, Kressler - 1 top prospect that has already earned games, a couple of projects.

If we're drafting in the 20's, it's arguable that we've been pulling a 1st rounder (or at least a 2nd) out of recruiting every off season

 

[SprDaVE]

To Toronto: Brandon Hagel
To Chicago: Travis Dermott + Nicholas Abruzzese + 2022 1st Rounder

To Toronto: Mark Pysyk
To Buffalo: 2023 3rd Rounder

To Toronto: Isaac Ratcliffe + Derrick Brassard + Linus Sandin
To Philadelphia: Nick Ritchie


Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Nylander - Tavares - Hagel
Mikheyev - Kerfoot - Kase
Engvall - Kampf - Simmonds/Spezza

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Liljegren/Holl
Sandin - Pysyk

Campbell - Mrazek

I can't for the life of me figure out why we're trading 1sts and decent prospects for middle 6 scoring wingers. All of our beans should go towards a top-4 D ideally one with term, but not necessarily needed.

Hagel is really good and would upgrade our already top notch forward core. Last few playoffs the Leafs were shut down pretty badly offensively, so adding someone like Hagel who is on pace for almost 60 points, he's 23 years old and is signed for 1.5M for the next 2 seasons... that's something to go after 100%.

I don't mind those deals but the Ritchie one is weird.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Hagel is really good and would upgrade our already top notch forward core. Last few playoffs the Leafs were shut down pretty badly offensively, so adding someone like Hagel who is on pace for almost 60 points, he's 23 years old and is signed for 1.5M for the next 2 seasons... that's something to go after 100%.

I don't mind those deals but the Ritchie one is weird.

Ok but we don't *need* Hagel. We do *need* a top-4 D, right?

 

[Ashdown2]

Hagel is really good and would upgrade our already top notch forward core. Last few playoffs the Leafs were shut down pretty badly offensively, so adding someone like Hagel who is on pace for almost 60 points, he's 23 years old and is signed for 1.5M for the next 2 seasons... that's something to go after 100%.

I don't mind those deals but the Ritchie one is weird.

i get the idea wanting hagel , but why would chicago trade young players ?

 

[Morgs]

To Toronto: Brandon Hagel
To Chicago: Travis Dermott + Nicholas Abruzzese + 2022 1st Rounder

To Toronto: Mark Pysyk
To Buffalo: 2023 3rd Rounder

To Toronto: Isaac Ratcliffe + Derrick Brassard + Linus Sandin
To Philadelphia: Nick Ritchie


Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Nylander - Tavares - Hagel
Mikheyev - Kerfoot - Kase
Engvall - Kampf - Simmonds/Spezza

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Liljegren/Holl
Sandin - Pysyk

Campbell - Mrazek

1. No
2. Could do worse I guess, but not at the expense of Liljegren minutes
3. Yes

 

[SprDaVE]

Ok but we don't *need* Hagel. We do *need* a top-4 D, right?

You always need a better forward. No offence to a lot of the forwards we have, some could easily be upgraded on. And it's not just an upgrade now, it's an upgrade for a few years at a bargain price.

You can still add a top 4 defenseman. The problem is that there aren't many if any available that are clearly better than what we have either, and the prices are a lot worse.