GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART VI

[Twine Tickler]

Agree with this totally. I have no problem with those 2 on the 4th line at all. The fact they were both prolific scorers back in the day doesn't hurt... they still have that DNA in them and can pop a few. They rarely drag us down when on the ice, and often have great shifts in the o zone.How many other teams can throw a 4th liner on the PP and he excels? Not too many. And how many other teams have a guy that wants to mess with Simmonds? Not many again. Actually just checked and surprised to see Spezza has 9 goals already this year. May be the best bargain in Hockey.

Yup, and that's not even taking into consideration what they do off the ice.

Simmonds is a prominent figure with the HDA, which at it's roots is all about accountability, and inclusivity. That type of mindset doesn't just end with the HDA, it carries into the room on all fronts IMO. Enforcing the understanding that you are part of a team, and that your individual actions and/or inactions have consequences.

Spezz is the perfect role model for Mitch, Auston, and Willy. This is a guy who was once a superstar in the NHL. Now he is willing to do whatever it takes to win in Toronto. His love for the game and pursuit of the mug is the only thing keeping him going. I'm sure we can all remember a time where we have worked with an upbeat, positive, and malleable person close to retirement. Those type of people are the grease that makes the engine work. They provide perspective on life and keep everyone grounded. Spezz is that guy for the Leafs

But aside from all that, I've been very happy with both of their game's this year. They've won us more games than they have lost us.

 

[1specter]

I feel like this team needs another Brodie more than another Muzzin. Someone who is safe and reliable defensively but can also skate and move the puck up ice

I mean Muzzin could do that in the past, unfortunately he's taken a step back in terms of skating and speed. Hoping it's just a nagging injury that he can overcome rather than legitimate decline

 

[Mugzy97]

It's almost like we have a guy named Justin Holl that does the same thing.

For sure, but if we go into playoffs with what we have I think we’re in trouble again, especially if another injury occurs. Would feel much more comfortable adding a Mayfield to our top 6

 

[Cor]

(Sigh) Jake Muzzin hasn’t declined.

He had an obscure insane year last year in terms of defensive impact.

His defensive impact is simply back to regular levels.

There’s a difference.

 

[The Podium]

I mean Muzzin could do that in the past, unfortunately he's taken a step back in terms of skating and speed. Hoping it's just a nagging injury that he can overcome rather than legitimate decline

Still wasn’t ever very effective at breakouts. Muzzin - Brodie would actually make a solid shutdown pairing if they can find someone else to pair with Reilly.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

(Sigh) Jake Muzzin hasn’t declined.

He had an obscure insane year last year in terms of defensive impact.

His defensive impact is simply back to regular levels.

There’s a difference.

I think it's obvious he's declined. Muzzin today isn't as good as Muzzin when we got him, or last year, or the year before.

The problem isn't the word decline. The problem is people associate decline with playing bad. Even though he's declined, he's still good and a big part of the team.

 

[meefer]

If they're arguably the same level of defensive effectiveness, I always take Mayfield because he hits and fights. Other than a couple of random fights for Holl, I cannot recall a single instance of him throwing a big hit.

Justin Holl: 34 games/69 hits = 2.03 hits/game
Scott Mayfield: 29 games/54 hits = 1.86 hits/game
(per Quanthockey)

Holl has more hits/game than Mayfield, but on a per game basis (as for most defensemen) the amount is not great. I love me a physically dominant defenseman, but neither H or M are that.

Fights:
Justin Holl:
10/09/21 v S. Saborin, Ottawa
03/19/21 v M. Tkachuk, Calgary

Scott Mayfield:
11/06/21 v A Lowry, Winnipeg
06/05/21 v T Hall, Boston
(per HockeyFights)

These are the last two fight dates for each player. 7 months apart for Holl, 5 for Mayfield. Fighting isn't the thing it was.

 

[Buds17]

(Sigh) Jake Muzzin hasn’t declined.

He had an obscure insane year last year in terms of defensive impact.

His defensive impact is simply back to regular levels.

There’s a difference.

Last season was definitely Muzzin's best with the team at both ends of the ice. I think the drop-off has been much more noticeable on the defensive end though, and it's arguably to the point where I'd currently deem this his worst season with the team in that facet of the game. That said, I'm not altogether convinced that we're observing some precipitous decline here.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Bogo allowed more goals per ice time in the playoffs last year than any other Leafs dman, even while getting the easiest matchups

Bogo is slow but he is big .. but he is vet smart enough to always make safe play and never cost team 3 games with rook mistakes late in games

 

[zeke]

Why do you switch to regular GA here but use xGF/xGA everywhere else? Oh, because it suits your narrative. Bogo was fourth in xGF % in the playoffs and had a better xGA/60 than Muzzin or Holl did.

I dunno - because when I show how excellent Holl and Sandin and Lilly's xgf% are the same people dismiss it?

Come on man, this is getting old. I don't know why you still choose to die on the hills you do when you've been dead wrong on some big things the last few years.

by dead wrong you mean dead right.

I've noticed in particular that when the team trades players away you tend to shit on those traded players and paint a picture that we don't need them while pumping up whoever we replaced them with. It looks even worse since you used to pump up the guys that got traded.

and i've noticed in particular how you guys just make up crap like this about me when it's clearly not true, just because you can't handle how wrong you've been about how good this team is.

It's always these weak fake attempts at personal attacks instead of just talking hockey, all because you guys can't handle how well the team is playing.

I'm sure there are some posts of you defending Bogosian or making him look good from last season floating around on here.

I am sure there are posts of me defending Bogosian as a serviceable bottom pair dman, because that's what he is.

 

[zeke]

Bogo is slow but he is big .. but he is vet smart enough to always make safe play and never cost team 3 games with rook mistakes late in games

Bogo is fine. Our kids are much better though. And guess who was partnering those kids when they made those "mistakes"? I wonder if his lack of positioning and help had anything to do with the mistakes those kids made?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Bogo is fine. Our kids are much better though. And guess who was partnering those kids when they made those "mistakes"? I wonder if his lack of positioning and help had anything to do with the mistakes those kids made?

There is no leniency on Dubie this year .. if his team loses round 1 again then Shanny will throw him over and likely himself .. i think he is getting sick of travel commutes with COVID .. may be easier to take da package and run .. we will see as Shanny has never been a conventional thinker .. but expect Dubie to bring in at least 1 and maybe 2 defensive dman for our run .. does not mean Dermy Lily and Sandin won't play regular season hockey they will

 

[WTFMAN99]

It's like some people haven't caught on at how the whistles go away and you can't be all finesse in the playoffs yet.

Cross check city vs our stars last year and if I was an opposing forward, I would have zero qualms going into the corner or in front of the net vs the Leafs defense, they don't make it hurt.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

There is no leniency on Dubie this year .. if his team loses round 1 again then Shanny will throw him over and likely himself .. i think he is getting sick of travel commutes with COVID .. may be easier to take da package and run .. we will see as Shanny has never been a conventional thinker .. but expect Dubie to bring in at least 1 and maybe 2 defensive dman for our run .. does not mean Dermy Lily and Sandin won't play regular season hockey they will

"defensive defensemen" basically tells me that they're in their end a lot and can't move the puck. Block a lot of shots and get a lot of hits because of that.

Sandin-Liljegren or Sandin-Dermott have been much better defensively than any pair Bogo was on last year, and getting a similar player only makes us worse.

Either go big and upgrade on Holl or leave the defense the way it is. You have 8 quality options with the way Kral is playing right now and any team would be hurting once they get to their 9 and 10 guys.

 

[WTFMAN99]

"defensive defensemen" basically tells me that they're in their end a lot and can't move the puck. Block a lot of shots and get a lot of hits because of that.

Sandin-Liljegren or Sandin-Dermott have been much better defensively than any pair Bogo was on last year, and getting a similar player only makes us worse.

Either go big and upgrade on Holl or leave the defense the way it is. You have 8 quality options with the way Kral is playing right now and any team would be hurting once they get to their 9 and 10 guys.

Watching pre-season, there basically was never a reason to send Kral down, he did nothing wrong but it was a numbers game.

I think come training camp next season, he's gonna make them think about the depth chart, he could come in real cheap and be a nice option.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

It's like some people haven't caught on at how the whistles go away and you can't be all finesse in the playoffs yet.

Cross check city vs our stars last year and if I was an opposing forward, I would have zero qualms going into the corner or in front of the net vs the Leafs defense, they don't make it hurt.

And it seemed like all it took was Petry, Chiarot being heavy in their zone and Anderson with an early punishment on the forecheck and our super elite skill players were thrown right off the e test of the game.

Same thing will happen this year in Rd 1 and it’ll be 7 ’n out. They need an Anderson type of physical presence (when he’s on his game) to set the tone. I like Simmer as a person and player this year but he’s a bit broken down and too slow/imbalanced to effectively close the gap and finish big on the FC

 

[dubplatepressure]

Justin Holl: 34 games/69 hits = 2.03 hits/game
Scott Mayfield: 29 games/54 hits = 1.86 hits/game
(per Quanthockey)

Holl has more hits/game than Mayfield, but on a per game basis (as for most defensemen) the amount is not great. I love me a physically dominant defenseman, but neither H or M are that.

Fights:
Justin Holl:
10/09/21 v S. Saborin, Ottawa
03/19/21 v M. Tkachuk, Calgary

Scott Mayfield:
11/06/21 v A Lowry, Winnipeg
06/05/21 v T Hall, Boston
(per HockeyFights)

These are the last two fight dates for each player. 7 months apart for Holl, 5 for Mayfield. Fighting isn't the thing it was.

I realize that fighting isn't what it once was; the threat of the fight, the intimidation factor still exists. Perhaps Mayfield isn't the guy for this role then. It's the snarl I'm after.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

I realize that fighting isn't what it once was; the threat of the fight, the intimidation factor still exists. Perhaps Mayfield isn't the guy for this role then. It's the snarl I'm after.

Yeah Mayfield’s big but he’s almost got the friendly giant gene. We need a nasty SOB back there, which are few and far between in today’s league.

 

[X66]

If the Leafs do go for Manson, I'd play him with Rielly and Brodie with Muzzin.

 

[Amadeus]

If the Leafs do go for Manson, I'd play him with Rielly and Brodie with Muzzin.

Would Anaheim entertain trading Manson for Muzzin in a package?

We already have a sense of what we have as a team with Muzzin out. Adding Manson and subtracting Muzzin makes us better right now. Muzzin gets a change in scenery and goes back to California and is re-signed for a few more years. Toronto has the option to see how Manson fits before trying to retain him in free agency. If not, you have some cap space to make your team better.

 

[The Podium]

Would Anaheim entertain trading Manson for Muzzin in a package?

We already have a sense of what we have as a team with Muzzin out. Adding Manson and subtracting Muzzin makes us better right now. Muzzin gets a change in scenery and goes back to California and is re-signed for a few more years. Toronto has the option to see how Manson fits before trying to retain him in free agency. If not, you have some cap space to make your team better.

What?!

The grass isn’t always greener guys. These boards are desperate to try to make this team worse.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Grab a bottom pairing guy who can move up to play with Muzzin in a pitch in case Holl regresses again or Lily can't handle top 4 minutes in the playoffs. That would probably be my only add if looking at rentals. Maybe a vet 4C for insurance?

No reason to trade more futures away with no success to show for it so far. After the 2023/24 season Matthews, Nylander, Brodie, Muzzin etc all hit UFA. If Matthews got almost 12 million then imagine what he will get now that he has a rocket etc. Same with Nylander. Going to need all these picks the leafs have been trading the last few years as cheap ELCs

 

[Jozay]

Matthews getting 14 mill a year easy.

 

[WTFMAN99]

And it seemed like all it took was Petry, Chiarot being heavy in their zone and Anderson with an early punishment on the forecheck and our super elite skill players were thrown right off the e test of the game.

Same thing will happen this year in Rd 1 and it’ll be 7 ’n out. They need an Anderson type of physical presence (when he’s on his game) to set the tone. I like Simmer as a person and player this year but he’s a bit broken down and too slow/imbalanced to effectively close the gap and finish big on the FC

He's like 52nd in hits /60 with something like 11-12 when I checked a while ago

Reaves is 1st...they play a similar role, Reaves is around 20-22 hits.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

"defensive defensemen" basically tells me that they're in their end a lot and can't move the puck. Block a lot of shots and get a lot of hits because of that.

Sandin-Liljegren or Sandin-Dermott have been much better defensively than any pair Bogo was on last year, and getting a similar player only makes us worse.

Either go big and upgrade on Holl or leave the defense the way it is. You have 8 quality options with the way Kral is playing right now and any team would be hurting once they get to their 9 and 10 guys.

Agreed top 4 is a required upgrade 1st and foremost .. without that occurring it is a guaranteed 1st round exit to Tampa or Florida .. plus another VET defender for bottom pair would help a lot especially with injury .. Sandin and Dermy sh*t da bed last playoffs and will again .. Lily, who knows, but he is best option of 3 of them but I am not comfortable with any of them on 3rd pair in playoffs .. gotta be top 4 upgrade and then go top 4 25 minutes each pair per night