GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART VI

[dubplatepressure]

Right now as in right now. I don't see how Braun provides better "defense" than Holl. Numbers don't suggest it and I certainly don't see it when I watch Braun. We overanalyze all the mistakes Holl has made around here to justify anything.

I like Braun though and I do think you could probably make a case to sit Liljegren to play Braun. I don't think it's the right move personally but maybe Braun would give better physical defensive depth.

Right now's kind of irrelevant IMO. Marner's also not an 80-goal scorer. If we regress to the pre-Jan 1st Holl... Bad. I like Braun as depth, I also wouldn't play him over Lilly unless required or in case of injury. But Braun's the perfect depth D move IMO if we can't find better out there.

 

[thusk]

One of the strangest things about Leaf fans is how they look in jealousy at other team's talented youngsters as great strengths but then think our talented youngsters are weaknesses that need replacing.

The problem is not about liljegren as a 6th, its about leafs need to upgrade his top 4. Playing 14 minute on a 3rd pairing its not the same thing than playing 20-22 minute in a top 4.

So if toronto have to upgrade their top 4, liljegren will be scratch because holl still in front of him. Maybe next season, he will still grow up and become a real top 4 d and play over holl but hes not there right now.

 

[thusk]

I'm constantly confused why you keep passing on Chychrun just because he doesn't hit your Josh Manson checklist. If you focused more on the price to acquire him that would make more sense why we should stay away, but where I draw the line is when people talk about price AND try to make up a case where Chychruns impact will be negligible here. I'm sorry that's plain wrong. Why is it that the hockey world thinks he's worth it but a select few here think he's not? What secret information do you guys have that nobody else has access to?

Because already having rielly and sandin in that type of player... its not against the player, he's just not a great fit for the team.

 

[zeke]

Maybe next season, he will still grow up and become a real top 4 d and play over holl but hes not there right now.

why do you say that?

 

[thusk]

why do you say that?

Liljegren have potential of being a good top 4 d one day but right now hes not a this level.

They were opportunist? Yeah... a lot of teams are. I don't understand the negativity. It wasn't a perfect game but it was 2 good teams going head to head and we won. Sometimes you dominate and lose, sometimes it's a coin flip, sometimes you suck and win. That's hockey, but we're not going to base our team needs from one game against Carolina... right? Or are we?

The misconception that Braun would somehow make things better defensively over Holl, Liljegren, etc is really bizarre. He's alright here and he would provide a physical element we don't have a lot of. If you want to add him, it's definitely not to remove Holl. So someone has to sit.

We don't have much cap space but they definitely can make it work.



Maybe. You can say that about a lot of players. Right now... no he isn't.

Yep its one game... but toronto didn't play better than the 1st meeting they lost 4-1 or against NYR JAN19 who nyr came backor against colorado when they came back or 3 goal deficit. Just lose 2 goal lead again and again and again.... something wrong defensivly and it against those kind of team leafs will need to win in playoff, not against nj, det, chicago... if they still playing like they did in 2022, they will not win any serie in playoff

 

[Legion34]

I think we can all agree that.

rielly Brodie
Muzz. Xxxx
sandin Holl
Lilly

is a good D group going into the playoffs. IF muzz comes back anywhere close to normal and we get a realistic top 4 d I think we are in fantastic shape.

if we get a lesser D then still ok.

 

[Judas Tavares]

My predictions for types of deals. Not based off anything. Jut random hunches.

1. 2022 2nd
Abruzzese or Hirvonen or Holmberg or Steeves

for a #4RD with term and a nice AAV. Mayfield type of player. Not saying him, but similar.

2. Dermott for a #7D rental in the mold of a Bogosian who makes less than Dermott. Essentially this is used as a way to find a rock-type dman, clear some cap and also give Dermott a proper opportunity elsewhere.

3. 2023 3rd
Villeneuve or Miettenen

for a 3rd liner F rental. I guess could also have another year of term depending on the player. But a swiss army type who can do a bit of everything, play almost anywhere and in almost any situation. This one would be a little bit less expected but just a feeling I have. No clue who the name would be.

 

[zeke]

Liljegren have potential of being a good top 4 d one day but right now hes not a this level.

what makes you say that?

 

[stickty111]

One of the strangest things about Leaf fans is how they look in jealousy at other team's talented youngsters as great strengths but then think our talented youngsters are weaknesses that need replacing.

It has really got on my nerves. When Boston played Charlie Mac, and Habs played Subban in the playoffs, nobody said oh this is really bad. Now that we could play kids, it's a complete disaster they do and we have to add another d man.

 

[TMLAM34]

I think Soucy or Myers will be the target if we’re out on Chychrun.

 

[zeke]

It has really got on my nerves. When Boston played Charlie Mac, and Habs played Subban in the playoffs, nobody said oh this is really bad. Now that we could play kids, it's a complete disaster they do and we have to add another d man.

yep - those teams were praised for having such talented kids to play for them.

but we're not allowed to play talented kids, even if they're playing great, and even if they're only on the bottom pair.

 

[CupcakeSprinkles]

Bring back Luke Schenn

 

[thusk]

what makes you say that?

The game he was looking good was the game he was playing like 14-15 m against a weaker competition.

When keefe tried to upgrade his responsabilities like when holl was on covid protocol . it was very difficult for him and it was the worst game he played. Normally its a very good sign hes not ready for that role

 

[Eternal Leaf]

It has really got on my nerves. When Boston played Charlie Mac, and Habs played Subban in the playoffs, nobody said oh this is really bad. Now that we could play kids, it's a complete disaster they do and we have to add another d man.

You're not wrong but each defenseman is different.

For example, the Bruins didn't trust a rookie Mcavoy. They had lost both Carlo and Krug so they were forced to play him. He was their 8th defenseman. By the time his second season rolled around, he was already a 40-point two-way defenseman that had come off a quality regular season. This made his inclusion a no-brainer.

It's just like no one said anything about Matthews, Marner, or Nylander playing big roles on playoff rosters when they were younger. Sometimes, it's just common sense a player is good enough to be on the team playing a key role.

Sandin and Liljegren are not at that level.

Even then, I think more than Liljegren and Sandin, fans are rightly worried about the bottom 3 as a unit. Holl, Liljegren, and Sandin look good in spurts in their current state with two of them showing little when it comes to playoff hockey. The little bit Sandin did show left a lot to be desired as the Canadiens pounded him on the forecheck.

This is why adding a good top 4 RHD should help push everyone down a slot and insulate the defense.

But I do agree, lateral moves such as Braun might not be useful. At that point, it's just better to give Sandin/Liljegren more playoff experience, add a depth piece for injury protection, and hope they can keep their head above water.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I think we can all agree that.

rielly Brodie
Muzz. Xxxx
sandin Holl
Lilly

is a good D group going into the playoffs. IF muzz comes back anywhere close to normal and we get a realistic top 4 d I think we are in fantastic shape.

if we get a lesser D then still ok.

Agreed, I hope Muzzin was just slow getting up to game speed like older players tend to do.

The issue I see is if you stick a longer term piece in that XXX slot your blocking Lily's development for a few years. Conversely if you just grabbed a rental well you probably paid a pretty good price to get a rental top 4D and I have no interest in spending more major futures without playoff success.

Personally I might consider moving Dermott and bringing in a physical bottom pairing guy who can PK as a #6/7 as insurance. No major additions

 

[Fogelhund]

The game he was looking good was the game he was playing like 14-15 m against a weaker competition.

When keefe tried to upgrade his responsabilities like when holl was on covid protocol . it was very difficult for him and it was the worst game he played. Normally its a very good sign hes not ready for that role

One game. Players need a chance to learn, and grow into their roles. Liljegren in particular is slow to adapt. You need patience with these players.

 

[4thline]

Larsson+Lyubuskin.

A Schenn/Lyub/Braun add is two-fold insurance- against Liljegren not being ready, and against us losing a d-man in a hopefully 82 game run.

Personally I hope we don't do any more spending than necessary to add a 4C and depth dman. This is a good team.

 

[Legion34]

Agreed, I hope Muzzin was just slow getting up to game speed like older players tend to do.

The issue I see is if you stick a longer term piece in that XXX slot your blocking Lily's development for a few years. Conversely if you just grabbed a rental well you probably paid a pretty good price to get a rental top 4D and I have no interest in spending more major futures without playoff success.

Personally I might consider moving Dermott and bringing in a physical bottom pairing guy who can PK as a #6/7 as insurance. No major additions

That’s an option too. To me the most likely thing is to have 5 vet D and let sandin or Lilly play in the playoffs. You will need somene any way.

my guess is both dermott and Holl are gone next year and sandin Lilly is pair 3. But it’s all guesses. We will see

 

[Mickey Marner]

Larsson+Lyubuskin.

A Schenn/Lyub/Braun add is two-fold insurance- against Liljegren not being ready, and against us losing a d-man in a hopefully 82 game run.

Personally I hope we don't do any more spending than necessary to add a 4C and depth dman. This is a good team.

I'd be fine with either Larsson+Lyubuskin (2.75 AAV), or Brassard+Braun (2.625) to add depth at C and RD. The cost shouldn't be prohibitive and dealing with one team would also expedite & simplify the process.

 

[X66]

Last nights game was another example of why we need to go forward over Dman.

The team already plays high end defensive hockey, 5 on 5 and 5 on 4...

But my biggest worry is the well running dry in the playoffs(AGAIN).

I'd look for a guy that can bury the puck too, something like how Kessel helped Pens overcome that issue.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Last nights game was another example of why we need to go forward over Dman.

The team already plays high end defensive hockey, 5 on 5 and 5 on 4...

But my biggest worry is the well running dry in the playoffs(AGAIN).

I'd look for a guy that can bury the puck too, something like how Kessel helped Pens overcome that issue.

Forwards just matter more and impact the game more. Granted, I wouldn't say no to an offensive defenseman who can make things happen if the other team collapses to protect their net

 

[4thline]

I'd be fine with either Larsson+Lyubuskin (2.75 AAV), or Brassard+Braun (2.625) to add depth at C and RD. The cost shouldn't be prohibitive and dealing with one team would also expedite & simplify the process.

Exactly my thought. The L's are my "premium" option for that kind of depth shopping, but part of me wouldn't mind sticking low cost with a Boyd/Eakin level centre and a Hutton type defender, keep our total spend down at something like next years 4th+5th

 

[Fogelhund]

Last nights game was another example of why we need to go forward over Dman.

The team already plays high end defensive hockey, 5 on 5 and 5 on 4...

But my biggest worry is the well running dry in the playoffs(AGAIN).

I'd look for a guy that can bury the puck too, something like how Kessel helped Pens overcome that issue.

We are a very good team overall.

That said, we have the #4 GF/G in the league.

We have the #6 GA/G in the league.

We can always wish to improve everything in our game, especially with an unlimited cap, but it's GA that is the lower ranked metric. Moreso, we need some physicality.... just my opinion.

We've got plenty of time to re-evaluate, and discuss this to death... but keep in mind we get to see Ho-Sang in the Olympics at a higher level... and while he's been disappointing to me at the AHL level, let's see if he can step up, against bigger competition. Robertson is back, and will get some games, he can certainly bury the puck. Maybe even Amirov (health dependent) might come over after an early ending to the KHL season.

If you want to go off the boards, sign Artyom Nikolayev for the rest of the season to a league minimum. He played on a terrible team this year, his team is out of the playoffs, and he is a UFA. 6'0" 190 LB, leftwinger, who was second on his team in scoring at 22, with 23 points in 42 games.... Was second by one point.

None of these cost us anything to boot. My focus would be upgrading Holl, if possible.

 

[4thline]

@Fogelhund , I like the thought but Nikolayev would have to pass through waivers I'm pretty sure.
But if we opened up the cap space to carry more roster players we could promote from with and use 22 start ELC with a present year PTO to backfill the marlies

 

[Gabriel426]

It is going to be really hard and difficult to upgrade the top 4 via TDL, since pretty much all playoffs teams are looking to upgrade their top 4.
I think a solid physical bottom pair Dman would be good but this Dman also needs to be a good skater as his partner will most likely be Sandin.

Or if this Sandin and Holl thing is good, maybe Lil and Muzz and be another pair.

Then focus would be another forward, since our 13th forward is not good mix with our 12 starting forwards.