GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART VI

[Enniskillen]

Tell me you don't know who Justin Braun is without telling me you don't know who Justin Braun is.

Maybe he is talking about Justin “Bruan”.

 

[jaric1862]

I really hope our add isn't just a 6-7 defenceman. That would be so underwhelming.

 

[aingefan]

Panthers just signed Guzda.

Drag, but Petruzzelli.

 

[Enniskillen]

See, if they had literally a single round win in the last 5 years, I would probably be closer to your end of the spectrum in terms of my excitement with this team.

The first series vs Washington was a freebie but after that, I don't know about you but I had some expectations of a series win.

The team has had a history of having some nice regular season success which really doesn't amount to anything. Ultimately there are 31 losers in the season every year but you measure yourself and how close you are to going all the way with how far your team is able to go. Washington, Tampa and St.Louis all saw them win playoff rounds with consistency and then one year things did go their way and they were able to finally win a cup.

Toronto doesn't have that success...and the odds of going from zero playoff series wins as a core to going all the way seem incredibly low. So if anyone has been wrong about how good the team is, it has been you, unless you consider a regular season campaign to somehow hold more weight than playoff success. In that particular case, you might be the only person I know to consider regular season success to be greater than playoff success.

Now if they're able to win 1-2 rounds this year, I will happily pump the team's tires but they gotta earn that.

Well said.

 

[Menzinger]

Schenn makes sense. The Leafs we're reportedly looking for a Bogo replacement during the free agency period. He fits the similar role of a safe bottom pairing guy with a physical edge.

I remain skeptical about trading for Chychrun because his role on the Leafs as a secondary puck mover on the back end likely isn't worth paying s king's ransom for. He's not going to bump Rielly off of PP1....

 

[zeke]

Schenn makes sense. The Leafs we're reportedly looking for a Bogo replacement during the free agency period. He fits the similar role of a safe bottom pairing guy with a physical edge.
.

Note that both our 3rd pair and our PK has been notably better without Bogo.

 

[thusk]

Schenn at a low price and trade for a guy like rakell, copp, kessel, statsny at good price... its fine

 

[Nylander88]

I’d like to see this set up for a few weeks at least and see how the two young Swedes do with that set up, there’s lots of time before the trade deadline to see how it all shakes out, and if there’s any progression in their games up to that point
Dermott I’ve seen enough of and would rather bring in a bigger body to fill the 6/7 spot much like Bogo last year, if you can save cap/term doing so I would see that as a win

If Dermott is traded for just a big bodied #7 with cap savings...I at least hope it's a mid 20s guy with upside. But tbh I'd probably do Dermott for Schenn straight up. Because he could easily play in our top 6 and has kind of found a way to be effective in his early 30s. Was terrific with Tampa on their cup run and he's playing solid hockey next to Quinn Hughes right now. Think he'd be a good guy to bring back

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Schenn would be an acceptable depth add. No more then like a 3rd or 4th round pick. Would probably have a similar impact to a Chiarot for a significantly cheaper cost lol

 

[Morgs]

Idk why people wanna waste good assets for bad defensive defenseman rentals. We've got a strong top-4 since Holl stopped playing like complete ass, and Sandin-Liljegren have dominated to a ridiculous degree when playing together on the bottom pair. Not to mention Dermott is far better as a 7D than Schenn or Braun.

Besides maybe a top-6 LW, I don't really see a need besides grabbing some cheap depth in case of injuries, or to help give some rest to our players during this brutal stretch the rest of the season will be.

 

[Morgs]

Schenn would be an acceptable depth add. No more then like a 3rd or 4th round pick. Would probably have a similar impact to a Chiarot for a significantly cheaper cost lol

I mean, he's better than Chiarot at virtually everything. I can't believe people are speculating he should be getting a 1st. A 2nd or 3rd is far too much for that guy. I still wouldn't spend a 3rd or 4th on a Schenn or Braun. I just think they'd struggle in our system and it would just be more wasted assets.

 

[notdoneyet]

If holl is in our top four we will never win a cup
He is big soft and slow

lilly and sandin need some more time

get shenn for cheap
Get giordano from seattle

gio brodie pure shutdown
Muzin Reilly
Sandin holl/shenn
Lilly

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I mean, he's better than Chiarot at virtually everything. I can't believe people are speculating he should be getting a 1st. A 2nd or 3rd is far too much for that guy. I still wouldn't spend a 3rd or 4th on a Schenn or Braun. I just think they'd struggle in our system and it would just be more wasted assets.

Yeah I mean I wouldn't be heart broken over not getting Schenn. But paying a mid round pick for Schenn is absolutely preferable over getting into some dumb bidding war on Chiarot that the media is trying to drive right now. Soucy would be the dream but I am not expecting it.

 

[The Podium]

You're either a top 4 defenseman or you're not, regardless of your partner.

More often than not in his NHL career, Holl has failed to look like a legit top 4 defenseman without the aid of a superior partner.



Chart smart crowd that haven't watched a second of him know *everything* there is to know though right? lol.

The charts show that these 2 are not that different, when accounting for the quality of teams.

It’s also weird that you’re using Holl playing with Muzzin as a criticism but don’t mention that Bruan plays 70% ES with Provorov.

I also would like an upgrade on Holl in the top 4, but you’re nuts if you think Bruan is anything but a lateral move at best

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Idk why people wanna waste good assets for bad defensive defenseman rentals. We've got a strong top-4 since Holl stopped playing like complete ass, and Sandin-Liljegren have dominated to a ridiculous degree when playing together on the bottom pair. Not to mention Dermott is far better as a 7D than Schenn or Braun.

Besides maybe a top-6 LW, I don't really see a need besides grabbing some cheap depth in case of injuries, or to help give some rest to our players during this brutal stretch the rest of the season will be.

Curious how Lily/Sandn zone starts and QoC compare when they are together vs apart or vs Lily/Muzzin vs Sandin/Holl for example. I'm guessing they receive more sheltering when playing together which definitely will have a sizable influence. Definitely agree they have been great and need room to grow and not be blocked by adding too many players above them in the depth chart

 

[Morgs]

Curious how Lily/Sandn zone starts and QoC compare when they are together vs apart or vs Lily/Muzzin vs Sandin/Holl for example. I'm guessing they receive more sheltering when playing together which definitely will have a sizable influence. Definitely agree they have been great and need room to grow and not be blocked by adding too many players above them in the depth chart

The thing is though is that we've seen through the years that we know our top-4 can handle big minutes and even when we had guys like Polak or Bogosian they were heavily sheltered 5v5. None of those pairings came close to how good Liljegren and Sandin are in those minutes though.

 

[WTFMAN99]

View attachment 505402 View attachment 505403

The charts show that these 2 are not that different, when accounting for the quality of teams.

It’s also weird that you’re using Holl playing with Muzzin as a criticism but don’t mention that Bruan plays 70% ES with Provorov.

I also would like an upgrade on Holl in the top 4, but you’re nuts if you think Bruan is anything but a lateral move at best

We could could look at a few years

2019-20 - 11.5% of the time

2020-21 51.7% of the time

Pretty consistently "good" metrics in a really difficult role on teams that ranged from really good teams on San Jose, including the cup final appearance and then the Flyers have been fairly mediocre for his entire duration there.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

The thing is though is that we've seen through the years that we know our top-4 can handle big minutes and even when we had guys like Polak or Bogosian they were heavily sheltered 5v5. None of those pairings came close to how good Liljegren and Sandin are in those minutes though.

Oh definitely agreed that the leafs historically have one of the most sheltered 3rd pairing in the league the past while. I seem to recall some Dermott pairing that had pretty crazy advanced stats a few years ago. Could be wrong though

 

[The Podium]

We could could look at a few years

2019-20 - 11.5% of the time

View attachment 505413

2020-21 51.7% of the time

View attachment 505414


View attachment 505415


Pretty consistently "good" metrics in a really difficult role on teams that ranged from really good teams on San Jose, including the cup final appearance and then the Flyers have been fairly mediocre for his entire duration there.

Ya, a meh #4. Not unlike Holl. I’d we are going to upgrade, let’s get a clear upgrade.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Ya, a meh #4. Not unlike Holl. I’d we are going to upgrade, let’s get a clear upgrade.

He's been a solid #4 defenseman for a long time in that role.

Sometimes it isn't about getting sexy names...hell, look no further than our line up when Dubas made some real nice quality adds in Kampf and Bunting.

You can pay a bit more and grab someone like Mayfield who played top 4 minutes for NYI and did well with Leddy.

After that, who's that clear #1 name out there? Don't say Chychrun.

Goal 3 by Carolina...Holl...yikes.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Delete my bad

 

[LeafChief]

He's been a solid #4 defenseman for a long time in that role.

Sometimes it isn't about getting sexy names...hell, look no further than our line up when Dubas made some real nice quality adds in Kampf and Bunting.

You can pay a bit more and grab someone like Mayfield who played top 4 minutes for NYI and did well with Leddy.

After that, who's that clear #1 name out there? Don't say Chychrun.

Goal 3 by Carolina...Holl...yikes.

I really don't like Holl and would love to see his spot upgraded but I can't really blame him for a strange bounce off the glass.

Braun and Holl are pretty equal players. If we're going to spend assets, I'd rather not spend them on a lateral move at best. People tend to fall in love with average players on other teams because they don't watch them every night and don't live and die by their every mistake.

Braun is a fine player but he really isn't all that special and definitely not deserving of all of the drooling that's been going on over the last two pages.

 

[SprDaVE]

View attachment 505402 View attachment 505403

The charts show that these 2 are not that different, when accounting for the quality of teams.

It’s also weird that you’re using Holl playing with Muzzin as a criticism but don’t mention that Bruan plays 70% ES with Provorov.

I also would like an upgrade on Holl in the top 4, but you’re nuts if you think Bruan is anything but a lateral move at best

Dubas isn't going to break up his team to go from Holl to Braun. It's the kind of sideways move at best that doesn't really do much.

Adding Braun to play over Liljegren (or if any injury occurs)... sure. Could be ok if the price makes sense. But adding a veteran like Braun to remove minutes from Liljegren also seems unlikely unless Liljegren really doesn't play well down the stretch.

 

[Havoc]

He's been a solid #4 defenseman for a long time in that role.

Sometimes it isn't about getting sexy names...hell, look no further than our line up when Dubas made some real nice quality adds in Kampf and Bunting.

You can pay a bit more and grab someone like Mayfield who played top 4 minutes for NYI and did well with Leddy.

After that, who's that clear #1 name out there? Don't say Chychrun.

Goal 3 by Carolina...Holl...yikes.

That third goal was not Holl's fault. It was Sandins. Re-watch it. Sandin yells at him after the bounce and gives him incorrect instructions that leaves Holl in no mans land.

 

[Ashdown2]

people need to stop trying to replace HOLL ....