GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART VI

[WTFMAN99]

Like i said i dont see chychrun like a good dman defensive side of the puck. For me chychrun is an offensive dman than arizona using like an all around player because they dont have anything else in their d like we did couple a year ago with rielly under Babcock.



Tell me what he should do than holl dont do? Apart from being smaller and less physical?? Its not because a d play somewhere else than toronto that make him a better player.

He plays on a significantly worse team and still excellent defensively and proven ability to handle shut down minutes, even without being carried by Muzzin.

Rielly-Brodie are taking on more of the heavier lifting with Muzzin out and statistically, literally every partner that has played with Sandin this season has better metrics with him than without him.

I think Holl in a match up role gets eaten alive without Muzzin (if he's back to his normal self) because even together this year it hasn't been good. Holl has been trending better the last little while but if he's on your 3rd pairing with Sandin? Not shabby at all.

 

[zeke]

Leafs sergachev is sandin

Leafs need to fin their cernak

Rielly - Hedman
Muzzin - McDonagh
Brodie - Cernak
Sandin - Sergachev
Holl - Rutta
Liljegren - Foote
Dermott - Bogosian

 

[zeke]

Tell me you don't know who Justin Braun is without telling me you don't know who Justin Braun is.

Sounds like he knows Braun fine.

 

[Torontonian]

It sounds like Dubas has pretty much already identified the potential needs for the team at the TDL by mentioning Lilly and Sandin names, wants to see if they can handle it or if he needs to upgrade on one of them. He's essentially got a few bullets in the chamber when it comes to spending, likely means only being able to add a D or F, depending on if he feels like the two rookies can handle playoffs.

 

[thusk]

He plays on a significantly worse team and still excellent defensively and proven ability to handle shut down minutes, even without being carried by Muzzin.

Rielly-Brodie are taking on more of the heavier lifting with Muzzin out and statistically, literally every partner that has played with Sandin this season has better metrics with him than without him.

I think Holl in a match up role gets eaten alive without Muzzin (if he's back to his normal self) because even together this year it hasn't been good. Holl has been trending better the last little while but if he's on your 3rd pairing with Sandin? Not shabby at all.

Ps sandin and holl is not the 3rd pairing.

Ok so since muzzin was out, probably holl still carried by Muzzin because he was by far the best leaf d defensive side of the puck in that period of time. He also was excellent last season too but because he struggle like 20 game at the beggining of the season, so hes f***ing bad?!?!?!

 

[WTFMAN99]

Sounds like he knows Braun fine.

What are the Leafs expected cups for this year Zeke?

It sounds like Dubas has pretty much already identified the potential needs for the team at the TDL by mentioning Lilly and Sandin names, wants to see if they can handle it or if he needs to upgrade on one of them. He's essentially got a few bullets in the chamber when it comes to spending, likely means only being able to add a D or F, depending on if he feels like the two rookies can handle playoffs.

Sandin should continue to excel on the 3rd pairing if/when Muzzin returns, the big question is which version.

As we saw last page, Dhaliwal saying Leafs connected to Luke Schenn a bit, maybe he just wants to bolster depth? Schenn has been doing a decent job in Vancouver, has 2 cups of experience in Tampa and actually has some elite metrics defensively, he could definitely be a safe reliable contributor in a 6-7th type role.

I think we only have 1 "big" move in us and maybe a small one for depth. Dubas at least acknowledged we can't keep sending picks and prospects out the door.

Ps sandin and holl is not the 3rd pairing.

Ok so since muzzin was out, probably holl still carried by Muzzin because he was by far the best leaf d defensive side of the puck in that period of time. He also was excellent last season too but because he struggle like 20 game at the beggining of the season, so hes f***ing bad?!?!?!

You miss the last 2 post seasons where Holl basically looked like an AHLer as soon as Muzzin was out of the line up? Natural Stat trick is free to use if you want to see yourself if your eyes don't know what they were seeing.

 

[thusk]

Rielly - Hedman
Muzzin - McDonagh
Brodie - Cernak
Sandin - Sergachev
Holl - Rutta
Liljegren - Foote
Dermott - Bogosian

Rielly 《《《《《 Hedman
Thats the difference... Hedman is the best d in the NhL.

 

[123offtheglass]

For me chychrun is an offensive dman than arizona using like an all around player because they dont have anything else in their d like we did couple a year ago with rielly under Babcock.

That is a real good point, he's only the #1 D on his team because it's Arizona... he likely has the worst support in the league too though.

Even as a primary shutdown D in Toronto he'd be more sheltered than he currently is in Arizona. He obviously has the talent/tools to be an elite shutdown D & he's only 23; even if he currently has more offensive upside, personally I'd still consider him solid but not elite defensively; I also haven't really watched many recent Arizona games either tho... only thing I like about them is their new jerseys

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It sounds like Dubas has pretty much already identified the potential needs for the team at the TDL by mentioning Lilly and Sandin names, wants to see if they can handle it or if he needs to upgrade on one of them. He's essentially got a few bullets in the chamber when it comes to spending, likely means only being able to add a D or F, depending on if he feels like the two rookies can handle playoffs.

I think that was always the case. The Leafs were not going to make a move on a defenseman early. We are in a good spot and right now is a perfect opportunity to evaluate Dermott, Sandin, and Liljegren to see what they can handle.

TDL is not for another month, so that gives the Leafs plenty of games to evaluate the market and to evaluate their team. It is not like there is a short list of available guys who make sense for us, so no need to rush.

 

[thusk]

What are the Leafs expected cups for this year Zeke?



Sandin should continue to excel on the 3rd pairing if/when Muzzin returns, the big question is which version.

As we saw last page, Dhaliwal saying Leafs connected to Luke Schenn a bit, maybe he just wants to bolster depth? Schenn has been doing a decent job in Vancouver, has 2 cups of experience in Tampa and actually has some elite metrics defensively, he could definitely be a safe reliable contributor in a 6-7th type role.

I think we only have 1 "big" move in us and maybe a small one for depth. Dubas at least acknowledged we can't keep sending picks and prospects out the door.



You miss the last 2 post seasons where Holl basically looked like an AHLer as soon as Muzzin was out of the line up? Natural Stat trick is free to use if you want to see yourself if your eyes don't know what they were seeing.

Who will look good with dermott or Marincin???

 

[ACC1224]

He plays on a significantly worse team and still excellent defensively and proven ability to handle shut down minutes, even without being carried by Muzzin.

Rielly-Brodie are taking on more of the heavier lifting with Muzzin out and statistically, literally every partner that has played with Sandin this season has better metrics with him than without him.

I think Holl in a match up role gets eaten alive without Muzzin (if he's back to his normal self) because even together this year it hasn't been good. Holl has been trending better the last little while but if he's on your 3rd pairing with Sandin? Not shabby at all.

Braun would be a pretty good upgrade on Holl no doubt.

 

[LeafSteel]

Panthers just signed Guzda.

 

[thusk]

That is a real good point, he's only the #1 D on his team because it's Arizona... he likely has the worst support in the league too though.

Even as a primary shutdown D in Toronto he'd be more sheltered than he currently is in Arizona. He obviously has the talent/tools to be an elite shutdown D & he's only 23; even if he currently has more offensive upside, personally I'd still consider him solid but not elite defensively; I also haven't really watched many recent Arizona games either tho... only thing I like about them is their new jerseys

Or he gonna give an other kind of Dvorak or yandle. A guy everyone overated because he was on a bad team but never become player your wishin for.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Who will look good with dermott or Marincin???

You're either a top 4 defenseman or you're not, regardless of your partner.

More often than not in his NHL career, Holl has failed to look like a legit top 4 defenseman without the aid of a superior partner.

Braun would be a pretty good upgrade on Holl no doubt.

Chart smart crowd that haven't watched a second of him know *everything* there is to know though right? lol.

 

[zeke]

What are the Leafs expected cups for this year Zeke?

Less if Braun is in their top 4.

You miss the last 2 post seasons where Holl basically looked like an AHLer as soon as Muzzin was out of the line up? Natural Stat trick is free to use if you want to see yourself if your eyes don't know what they were seeing.

Per naturalstattrick.com, last 2 playoffs:

Muzzin-Holl 101:07, 58.9gf%, 46.1xgf%

Dermott-Holl 43:45, 0.0gf%, 54.2xgf%
Rielly-Holl 31:01, 66.6gf%, 67.1xgf%
Marincin-Holl 20:22, 0.0gf%, 66.5xgf%
Brodie-Holl 11:37, 100.0gf%, 50.3xgf%
Holl-Ceci 6:19, ----gf%, 21.1xgf%
Holl-Barrie 5:54, 50.7gf%, 20.0xgf%
Sandin-Holl 4:54, ---gf%, 0.0xgf%
Holl-Bogosian 1:01, 100.0gf%, 45.2xgf%

Muzzin-Bogosian 10:46, 0.0gf%, 33.1xgf%
Muzzin-Rielly 4:13, ---gf%, 42.4xgf%
Muzzin-Barrie 2:34, ---gf%, 18.7xgf%
Muzzin-Brodie 2:13, ---gf%, 100.0xgf%
Muzzin-Ceci 1:49, ---gf%, 0.0xgf%
Muzzin-Dermott 0:18, ---gf%, ---xgf%
Muzzin-Sandin 0:16, ----gf%, ---xgf%


Overall:

Holl with Muzzin: 58.9gf%, 46.1xgf%
Holl w/o Muzzin: 83.7gf%, 63.6xgf%
Muzzin w/o Holl: 47.4gf%, 51.4xgf%

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Panthers just signed Guzda.

Interesting choice. They don't have many goalies, but he is going to have to beat Knight for opportunities... And they currently have 10.5 mill locked up in Bobrovsky for the foreseeable future too.

Good for him, but I don't think the Leafs were really all that interested anyways. OA goalies don't really work out all that often, even if they have elite numbers and size, and we don't really have many opportunities for him right now anyways. We are developing Woll, Kallgren, and Petruzzelli at the very least for next year, and then Scott could also be in the mix as well.

4 goalies for 4 spots in the AHL/ECHL, and if Scott is too injured to continue on, I could see the Leafs chasing Taylor Gauthier on an AHL deal. Drafting a guy like Tyler Brennan or Braden Holt, who we can bring in after another year or two in the CHL, is more in line with what the Leafs could use in their organization right now.

 

[123offtheglass]

Or he gonna give an other kind of Dvorak or yandle. A guy everyone overated because he was on a bad team but never become player your wishin for.

Every single trade is gamble; Chychrun has obvious potential & upside & is as proven as he is at 23.

How good he'll become (or possibly falter) or fit with a team is much more uncertain & really variable though. I think he's a reasonably safe bet with a small chance of becoming a top D, but also really fits beside being a left shot... for them pursuing him I think their plan for the right side is the biggest factor; I don't think their group is weak when is comes to shutting down top competition, or lacks the upside to do so, they just lack a bit of physicality & a shot/scoring threat from the point.

 

[thusk]

You're either a top 4 defenseman or you're not, regardless of your partner.

More often than not in his NHL career, Holl has failed to look like a legit top 4 defenseman without the aid of a superior partner.



Chart smart crowd that haven't watched a second of him know *everything* there is to know though right? lol.

When you played #1 pairing shutdown role, yes maybe its still important to play with someone good in your opposite side... or playing with an ahler in a top 4, probably you not gonna look good too... put braun with the same caliber of dman he will not looking good. Like you saif, he played the most of the time with vlasic in sj and with provorov with philly, so like Holl he need to play with a better dman to look good??? I dont know what its your point here...

Im not telling holl is an elite shutdown d but he a good one.

 

[zeke]

Rielly 《《《《《 Hedman
Thats the difference... Hedman is the best d in the NhL.

I agree that's the biggest difference between the two dcorps....BUT I don't think Hedman is actually the best dman in the league and think his size makes people think he's better defensively than he actually is. He's dominant offensively though.

 

[zeke]

Chart smart crowd that haven't watched a second of him know *everything* there is to know though right? lol.

Its strange that you superduper eye test people keep convincing yourselves that bottom pair dmen on awful teams are upgrades to our top4.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Yep I know where you get your kicks. Hopefully for your sake they lose again so you can finally enjoy yourself.

But we all also know how wrong you guys have been about how good this team is, so hey.

See, if they had literally a single round win in the last 5 years, I would probably be closer to your end of the spectrum in terms of my excitement with this team.

The first series vs Washington was a freebie but after that, I don't know about you but I had some expectations of a series win.

The team has had a history of having some nice regular season success which really doesn't amount to anything. Ultimately there are 31 losers in the season every year but you measure yourself and how close you are to going all the way with how far your team is able to go. Washington, Tampa and St.Louis all saw them win playoff rounds with consistency and then one year things did go their way and they were able to finally win a cup.

Toronto doesn't have that success...and the odds of going from zero playoff series wins as a core to going all the way seem incredibly low. So if anyone has been wrong about how good the team is, it has been you, unless you consider a regular season campaign to somehow hold more weight than playoff success. In that particular case, you might be the only person I know to consider regular season success to be greater than playoff success.

Now if they're able to win 1-2 rounds this year, I will happily pump the team's tires but they gotta earn that.

 

[TMLAM34]

Interesting choice. They don't have many goalies, but he is going to have to beat Knight for opportunities... And they currently have 10.5 mill locked up in Bobrovsky for the foreseeable future too.

Good for him, but I don't think the Leafs were really all that interested anyways. OA goalies don't really work out all that often, even if they have elite numbers and size, and we don't really have many opportunities for him right now anyways. We are developing Woll, Kallgren, and Petruzzelli at the very least for next year, and then Scott could also be in the mix as well.

4 goalies for 4 spots in the AHL/ECHL, and if Scott is too injured to continue on, I could see the Leafs chasing Taylor Gauthier on an AHL deal. Drafting a guy like Tyler Brennan or Braden Holt, who we can bring in after another year or two in the CHL, is more in line with what the Leafs could use in their organization right now.

I can see the Panthers using Knight as a trade chip in a potential Chychrun deal.

 

[Torontonian]

Sandin should continue to excel on the 3rd pairing if/when Muzzin returns, the big question is which version.

As we saw last page, Dhaliwal saying Leafs connected to Luke Schenn a bit, maybe he just wants to bolster depth? Schenn has been doing a decent job in Vancouver, has 2 cups of experience in Tampa and actually has some elite metrics defensively, he could definitely be a safe reliable contributor in a 6-7th type role.

I think we only have 1 "big" move in us and maybe a small one for depth. Dubas at least acknowledged we can't keep sending picks and prospects out the door.

I don't have my doubts that one of Sandin/Lilly can play on the 3rd pairing come playoff time, I don't know if I trust both of them as our 3rd d-pairing together in the playoffs or if they need someone like Holl to anchor the pairing.

If a perfect world I think having TJ/Moe, Muzz/xxx, Sandin or Lilly/Holl at this point would be their ideal setup.

 

[123offtheglass]

Panthers just signed Guzda.

With Bobrovsky signed long-term & Knight, that's odd...

Too bad, Leafs really could use a decent goalie prospect

 

[WTFMAN99]

I don't have my doubts that one of Sandin/Lilly can play on the 3rd pairing come playoff time, I don't know if I trust both of them as our 3rd d-pairing together in the playoffs or if they need someone like Holl to anchor the pairing.

If a perfect world I think having TJ/Moe, Muzz/xxx, Sandin or Lilly/Holl at this point would be their ideal setup.

You need 7-8 good defenseman because injuries inevitably do occur.

I don't think management or Keefe is high on Dermott at this point although I could see him succeeding elsewhere...and the drop off after him to Dahlstrom or Biega isn't good. The Schenn chatter makes sense as he can handle the 6-7 spot for us just fine.