GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART VI

[heisenbergsitti]

Not that Buffalo should/would move him, but what about going after somebody like Alex Tuch? I know he was the big piece in the Eichel deal but maybe they would consider a futures based deal?

Ritchie/Dermott likely need to go to make the cap work this year.

Bring in:

Tuch
Pysyk

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander
Mikheyev-Kampf-Tuch
Engvall-Spezza-Kase
Simmonds

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Liljegren
Sandin-Holl
Kral-Pysyk

Campbell
Mrazek

They aren't dealing a Buffalo kid, player whose a hometown hero

 

[Nylander88]

Muzzin-liljegren
Sandin-Holl
Dermott for a cheaper vet 7th

With no adds, I like this. However for what it's worth, the amount of NHL games played at 1.5mil, I'd leave Dermott as your #7 as to not disrupt any locker room chemistry.
That said id like to deal Dermott in a deal for a guy like Mayfield, and have Lilly be our #7 headed into the playoffs. Having both Sandin & Liljegren with little to no playoff experience in our top 6 kind of worries me for a team looking to exorcise some bad first round demons. Sandin only has 5 games, and Lilly none. Not to mention the fact I think we need some added size and snarl back there. Mayfield, Chiarot, Schenn are all reasonable options imo. I think if you can grab a #4 with size, Sandin-Holl make a very good 3rd pairing. I think they've looked good together playing 2nd pairing minutes with Muzzin out

 

[jaric1862]

Im guessing Mayfield would probably cost something similar to Muzzin. A first and two B prospects.

 

[123offtheglass]

Like the way Dubas says to be approaching the TDL, sounds like he's ready to run it if he likes what's in place but is ready for a move that moves the needle. Good that he's looking for term (ideally), Leafs look to be setup for an even better run next year I think.

Mayfied would be a great pickup especially because of his fit, caphit & term (1.5 years); Islanders should probably hang on to him but if they're not too attached to him he'd be among the most ideal trade targets for the Leafs.

I don't think he'd cost quite as much as Muzzin; it's an odd comparison but I think he'd return a little less than what Blake Coleman did (Blake Coleman Trade History - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps), something like a 1st + B prospect or 1st + 2nd.

 

[Havoc]

Huge chychrun im not sure

I dont see this guy playing with rielly and i dont see him in a #1 shutdown pair... so the only place i can see a chychrun in leafs d is on the 3rd pairing... so im not sure for the price he will cost...

Chychrun is 23 he's a short term and long term asset. He's not a 3rd pairing in the long run.

When Dubas says players with term he's not only building for this season he's looking years down the line as well. Also, if Chych is your 3rd pairing for one season, you're a very deep team that season. Sandin wasn't ready for playoffs last year so we have no idea if he's ready this year against a opponent 10x harder who will actually enter our zone this time. So if you have the opportunity to run Jakob on your third pairing, you don't say "oh no what about Sandin, we can't hurt his feelings like that", assuming Sandin is even still here. If Sandin is still here he has like 10+ years left with the Leafs to make a mark, so one more year as a playoff reserve while we gun for the cup with a strong lineup works for everyone.

The Sandin stuff is just why I don't think 3rd pairing will stop Dubas from getting him. It's a clear path for Jakob here and it makes 100% sense.

 

[Nylanderthal]

With no adds, I like this. However for what it's worth, the amount of NHL games played at 1.5mil, I'd leave Dermott as your #7 as to not disrupt any locker room chemistry.
That said id like to deal Dermott in a deal for a guy like Mayfield, and have Lilly be our #7 headed into the playoffs. Having both Sandin & Liljegren with little to no playoff experience in our top 6 kind of worries me for a team looking to exorcise some bad first round demons. Sandin only has 5 games, and Lilly none. Not to mention the fact I think we need some added size and snarl back there. Mayfield, Chiarot, Schenn are all reasonable options imo. I think if you can grab a #4 with size, Sandin-Holl make a very good 3rd pairing. I think they've looked good together playing 2nd pairing minutes with Muzzin out

I’d like to see this set up for a few weeks at least and see how the two young Swedes do with that set up, there’s lots of time before the trade deadline to see how it all shakes out, and if there’s any progression in their games up to that point
Dermott I’ve seen enough of and would rather bring in a bigger body to fill the 6/7 spot much like Bogo last year, if you can save cap/term doing so I would see that as a win

 

[Fogelhund]

I’d like to see this set up for a few weeks at least and see how the two young Swedes do with that set up, there’s lots of time before the trade deadline to see how it all shakes out, and if there’s any progression in their games up to that point
Dermott I’ve seen enough of and would rather bring in a bigger body to fill the 6/7 spot much like Bogo last year, if you can save cap/term doing so I would see that as a win

So Dermott for Scheen?

 

[Nylanderthal]

So Dermott for Scheen?

I’d do it, I’d rather it be a part of a bigger deal for miller, but I think I’d do it.
Schenn saves 650k in cap for next year and is the perfect guy to slot in at 6/7

 

[Fogelhund]

I’d do it, I’d rather it be a part of a bigger deal for miller, but I think I’d do it.
Schenn saves 650k in cap for next year and is the perfect guy to slot in at 6/7

It would be quite the full circle to bring him back. As a #7, it would be pretty decent move. Dermott has no future here now, but he should be playing in the NHL, and should be better than he's shown here... maybe a move helps him grow. Plus, as you say the cap savings is nice, and brings some physicality.

 

[thusk]

Chychrun is 23 he's a short term and long term asset. He's not a 3rd pairing in the long run.

When Dubas says players with term he's not only building for this season he's looking years down the line as well. Also, if Chych is your 3rd pairing for one season, you're a very deep team that season. Sandin wasn't ready for playoffs last year so we have no idea if he's ready this year against a opponent 10x harder who will actually enter our zone this time. So if you have the opportunity to run Jakob on your third pairing, you don't say "oh no what about Sandin, we can't hurt his feelings like that", assuming Sandin is even still here. If Sandin is still here he has like 10+ years left with the Leafs to make a mark, so one more year as a playoff reserve while we gun for the cup with a strong lineup works for everyone.

The Sandin stuff is just why I don't think 3rd pairing will stop Dubas from getting him. It's a clear path for Jakob here and it makes 100% sense.

1- For the present : Toronto dont have 4.6M for a 3rd pairing dman and RIGHT NOW, Chychrun is not whats Toronto need for the next step.

2- For the future : If Chychrun cost something like sandin, knies or niemela an a 1st pick... i don't think toronto will be a better team. I not sure when Sandin will have the same age of chychrun right than he will not be better. The only reason why Sandin is not a top 4 dman in Toronto right now is Morgan Rielly who playing a similar type of game (chychrun is maybe bigger but very similar too). Put Sandin in Arizona, he will play over 22-23 minute by game, will play on 1st pp

 

[Fogelhund]

1- For the present : Toronto dont have 4.6M for a 3rd pairing dman and RIGHT NOW, Chychrun is not whats Toronto need for the next step.

2- For the future : If Chychrun cost something like sandin, knies or niemela an a 1st pick... i don't think toronto will be a better team. I not sure when Sandin will have the same age of chychrun right than he will not be better. The only reason why Sandin is not a top 4 dman in Toronto right now is Morgan Rielly who playing a similar type of game (chychrun is maybe bigger but very similar too). Put Sandin in Arizona, he will play over 22-23 minute by game, will play on 1st pp

Either one of two things would happen... Most likely, Chychrun would be on the right side, with Muzzin on the left. Chychrun has played on the right, and is good at it.

Or... Muzzin would be third pairing... not Chych....

While I don't think he's exactly what we need, I do think you are underselling him.

 

[123offtheglass]

Biggest question with a Chychrun trade would be how well one of he, Sandin or Muzzin could regularly play the right side.

I could see Chychrun being the 3rd pair LHD with extra minutes on PP, PK, & some offensive zone draws on the right side. Having all Rielly Muzzin Chychrun & Sandin is a bit overkill for LHD if none can easily play the right side regularly.

I think in the long run it would work out though, especially if/when Muzzin is gone or fades; the timing just complicates it.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Biggest question with a Chychrun trade would be how well one of he, Sandin or Muzzin could regularly play the right side.

I could see Chychrun being the 3rd pair LHD with extra minutes on PP, PK, & some offensive zone draws. Having all Rielly Muzzin Chychrun & Sandin is a bit overkill for LHD if none can easily play the right side regularly.

I think in the long run it would work out though, especially if/when Muzzin is gone or fades; the timing just complicates it.

IMO you slot Muzzy as the 3RD in that case - Sandin's fine on the right side. Lilly with Muzz on the 3RD.

 

[Fogelhund]

Biggest question with a Chychrun trade would be how well one of he, Sandin or Muzzin could regularly play the right side.

I could see Chychrun being the 3rd pair LHD with extra minutes on PP, PK, & some offensive zone draws. Having all Rielly Muzzin Chychrun & Sandin is a bit overkill for LHD if none can easily play the right side regularly.

I think in the long run it would work out though, especially if/when Muzzin is gone or fades; the timing just complicates it.

It was suggested to me, that Chychrun played right side in Junior... and is comfortable there. I don't know how good he'd be there at the NHL level, or how quickly he'd adjust... I'd trust they do that homework, before doing such a move.

 

[WTFMAN99]

If and it's a big if Holl and Muzzin sort themselves out I'd rather we make 2 smaller depth moves than 1 big move

Bring in a Braun/DeHaan type and a 2-way 3rd liner like Stazney/Rakell

That shouldn't cost the earth, makes our lineup deeper and insulates us if injuries strike

Get Amirov over to Toronto and sort it out, I'm not attacking Russian medicine but I'd be more comfortable if the Leafs doctors were sorting it out

You 100% want Braun over De Haan, just overall bad in Chicago and brutal shoulder history.

Da Haan makes me want to pull my hair out regularly when I watch Chicago.

 

[zeke]

Don't think Braun or dehaan Crack our lineup.

 

[thusk]

Either one of two things would happen... Most likely, Chychrun would be on the right side, with Muzzin on the left. Chychrun has played on the right, and is good at it.

Or... Muzzin would be third pairing... not Chych....

While I don't think he's exactly what we need, I do think you are underselling him.

Chychrun CANT play in shutdown role. Like rielly CANT play a shutdown game or why Muzzin-Barrie was a disaster because Barrie CANT play in a shutdown role.

Its not because you take a def very good indiviadly than its a good fit and that will work.

A team like tampa can do it with hedman and sergachev because hedman is an elite all-around d so will always play shutdown d and tampa will be able to protrect sergachev from defensive side. Toronto doesn't have any Hedman, what they got is an elite offensive dman who need to be protected. He need to be on most offensive situation to get the biggest impact he can.

Chychrun need to be protected and play on the most offensive situation he can to be effective like morgan rielly. If you take him and give him a shutdown role, he will struggle and look awful because he dont have the tools for that role

 

[zeke]

Chychrun CANT play in shutdown role. Like rielly CANT play a shutdown game or why Muzzin-Barrie was a disaster because Barrie CANT play in a shutdown role.

Its not because you take a def very good indiviadly than its a good fit and that will work.

A team like tampa can do it with hedman and sergachev because hedman is an elite all-around d so will always play shutdown d and tampa will be able to protrect sergachev from defensive side. Toronto doesn't have any Hedman, what they got is an elite offensive dman who need to be protected. He need to be on most offensive situation to get the biggest impact he can.

Chychrun need to be protected and play on the most offensive situation he can to be effective like morgan rielly. If you take him and give him a shutdown role, he will struggle and look awful because he dont have the tools for that role

Hedman's not all that good defensively really.

It's McDonagh-Cernak that does all the heavy defensive lifting for TB, while Hedman gets the lighter secondary matchups.

 

[123offtheglass]

It was suggested to me, that Chychrun played right side in Junior... and is comfortable there. I don't know how good he'd be there at the NHL level, or how quickly he'd adjust... I'd trust they do that homework, before doing such a move.

I agree & I did hear that too. I know he's at least started on the right side for a decent amount of offensive zone draws in the NHL as well.

Lefty/righty isn't an absolute dealbreaker to me but it's a significant factor for the Leafs because they're already so strong & loaded on the left side; somebody has got to play their off-side regularly & you want your top D (Rielly) to stay comfortable. Besides being a left shot though, he's not far from a perfect fit for what they need. Dubas doing his homework is key.

 

[thusk]

Hedman's not all that good defensively really.

It's McDonagh-Cernak that does all the heavy defensive lifting for TB, while Hedman gets the lighter secondary matchups.

Yep youre probably right but dont change thing too much...tell where sergachev was playing ( the tampa lightning chychrun) ? I will help you, on the 3rd pairing

 

[zeke]

Yep its true but where sergachev was playing ( the tampa lightning chychrun) ? On the 3rd pairing

I think whoever gets chychrun will be paying a price where they need chychrun to be much better than sergachev is.

And maybe he is, maybe he isn't, I'm not sure. But the price will be high i think.

 

[thusk]

I think whoever gets chychrun will be paying a price where they need chychrun to be much better than sergachev is.

And maybe he is, maybe he isn't, I'm not sure. But the price will be high i think.

Thats also why im not sure how much more chychrun can really giving more than sandin with leafs situation.

For me sergachev = Chychrun

Toronto Mcdonaugh is muzzin
They need to find their cernak to playing with or their Rutta to playing with Rielly not their sergachev, they maybe already got it with Sandin.

 

[123offtheglass]

Chychrun CANT play in shutdown role. Like rielly CANT play a shutdown game or why Muzzin-Barrie was a disaster because Barrie CANT play in a shutdown role.

Its not because you take a def very good indiviadly than its a good fit and that will work.

A team like tampa can do it with hedman and sergachev because hedman is an elite all-around d so will always play shutdown d and tampa will be able to protrect sergachev from defensive side. Toronto doesn't have any Hedman, what they got is an elite offensive dman who need to be protected. He need to be on most offensive situation to get the biggest impact he can.

Chychrun need to be protected and play on the most offensive situation he can to be effective like morgan rielly. If you take him and give him a shutdown role, he will struggle and look awful because he dont have the tools for that role

Leafs do lack an elite 'shutdown' defensive pair, although they did have excellent results from the Muzzin-Holl pair for a decent stretch while they were really rolling; they've been far from it since though.

I don't think they necessarily need a single 'elite' shutdown pair to go on a run though, or one that has 'shutdown' as it's primary focus. Rielly's defensive game has taken a jump since his contract extension & he was strong in the playoffs too. Chychrun is a solid all-round defenseman (with the tools to be elite) but obviously isn't your primary 'shutdown D' unless he's on a brutal team. Between say Rielly-Brodie & Muzzin-Chychrun though, I think they'd very effectively contain the oppositions top lines & close out games. Because of Rielly's improvement, Rielly-Brodie + Muzzin-Holl (with Chychrun reducing their workload some) could be good too if Muzzin & Holl can get closer to what they were.

Even Liljegren has shown a lot of potential & flashes of shutting down the opposition (especially his aggressive gap control to disrupt play & how efficient he is retrieving & breaking out), but he should stay sheltered this season; he's shakey at times & isn't the strongest around the crease or in battles.

 

[thusk]

Something i will like to see again before trade deadline is

Rielly with holl
Muzzin with brodie.

Holl in a lower defensive role could help him to be better and brodie in a bigger shutdown role.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

If Lilly/Sandin can handle more and more minutes, let them and go acquire a scoring forward.