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GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART VI

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If Liljegren and Sandin play like they did, a Schenn type add is fine. Liljegren is better as a 7th d man right now but I trust him to play 12 mins if needed in the playoffs. Of course depends on Muzzin.
 
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I say go for mayfield and Schenn. Cheap contracts and what we need on the backend.
Muzzin might get injured again so you need a Schenn as the 7th D.

Rielly Brodie
Muzzin Mayfield
Sandin Holl
Lilly Schenn
 
Weird Braun/Holl argument going on in here. A bunch of people want Braun and see him as a top 4 upgrade on Holl, a bunch of others think he's roughly equal to Holl and don't want to waste assets on an player who isn't a "clear upgrade".

Why does Braun have to be a clear upgrade on Holl to be worth trading for him, if you're arguing Holl is a 4 and Braun is a roughly equivalent 4 wouldn't it be a good thing to have one of them on your 3rd pair? Since when is having a capable top 4 defenseman playing on your third pair in the playoffs a bad thing? Obviously it improves your defense as a whole, not to mention injuries.

I like Braun because if/when Holl or Muzzin go down we are really lacking in the size, physicality and PK ability on the back end. Who's our #1 RD PK option if Holl goes down? Lily (Brodie maybe)? A lot to ask of a rookie D on a cup contender, and not a role Brodie has excelled at in his career. Braun's cap hit is cheap and hopefully cost wouldn't be too high as well.

Would it be great to pick up a top 2 or top 3 level d man, of course. But those are hard to come by, expensive to acquire and typically come with a big cap hit that we may or may not be able to fit. Plus the guys out there who fit that description (Lindholm, Chychrun, Klingberg) are more puck moving and offensive guys where our bigger need is PK and shutdown type of guys.
 
Just stop with mayfield. Islanders will not trade him.

They are not in rebuild mode and they will try to come back on playoff track next season.

You can remove mayfield of your list
 
thusk said:
Just stop with mayfield. Islanders will not trade him.

They are not in rebuild mode and they will try to come back on playoff track next season.

You can remove mayfield of your list
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Yes and even if old man Lou was to do a rebuild for the first time in his life, I doubt that he'd want to make a trade with Dubas.
 
VanW27 said:
Weird Braun/Holl argument going on in here. A bunch of people want Braun and see him as a top 4 upgrade on Holl, a bunch of others think he's roughly equal to Holl and don't want to waste assets on an player who isn't a "clear upgrade".

Why does Braun have to be a clear upgrade on Holl to be worth trading for him, if you're arguing Holl is a 4 and Braun is a roughly equivalent 4 wouldn't it be a good thing to have one of them on your 3rd pair? Since when is having a capable top 4 defenseman playing on your third pair in the playoffs a bad thing? Obviously it improves your defense as a whole, not to mention injuries.

I like Braun because if/when Holl or Muzzin go down we are really lacking in the size, physicality and PK ability on the back end. Who's our #1 RD PK option if Holl goes down? Lily (Brodie maybe)? A lot to ask of a rookie D on a cup contender, and not a role Brodie has excelled at in his career. Braun's cap hit is cheap and hopefully cost wouldn't be too high as well.

Would it be great to pick up a top 2 or top 3 level d man, of course. But those are hard to come by, expensive to acquire and typically come with a big cap hit that we may or may not be able to fit. Plus the guys out there who fit that description (Lindholm, Chychrun, Klingberg) are more puck moving and offensive guys where our bigger need is PK and shutdown type of guys.
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Brodie is already the top RD PK defenseman. I don't think that's really the issue. When a team loses a player to injury, it's always going to be a little hard to replace internally.

This is why the Leafs really need to see what Liljegren can do right now. He's been pretty good and it would be odd to take away his minutes right now. If you're trading for a rental like Braun, it isn't to replace Holl but it's to replace/compete with players like Liljegren, Dermott and maybe even Sandin. Is Braun really worth the asset(s) to play him over perfectly good defensemen, especially ones that need minutes? It's basically doing what we've been doing the last 5 years from Boyle to Plekanec to Foligno...

We're not going to develop secondary and break out players if we keep burying them in important games or long stretches for the rental veteran. We might as well really go for the big upgrade instead of just doing the rental route. Tampa Bay had no problems playing Sergachev in their runs for example, the Leafs should be going the same route.
 
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SprDaVE said:
Brodie is already the top RD PK defenseman. I don't think that's really the issue. When a team loses a player to injury, it's always going to be a little hard to replace internally.

This is why the Leafs really need to see what Liljegren can do right now. He's been pretty good and it would be odd to take away his minutes right now. If you're trading for a rental like Braun, it isn't to replace Holl but it's to replace/compete with players like Liljegren, Dermott and maybe even Sandin. Is Braun really worth the asset(s) to play him over perfectly good defensemen, especially ones that need minutes? It's basically doing what we've been doing the last 5 years from Boyle to Plekanec to Foligno...

We're not going to develop secondary and break out players if we keep burying them in important games or long stretches for the rental veteran. We might as well really go for the big upgrade instead of just doing the rental route. Tampa Bay had no problems playing Sergachev in their runs for example, the Leafs should be going the same route.
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Brodie has never been a #1 RD PK option here or anywhere else, he is fine as a secondary but not so much as the go to.

Developing young guys is important but for me it's about the role and putting them in situations to succeed. Running out young guys in roles they aren't suited for isn't doing anyone any favours. Tampa could run Segachev/Cernak as young guys in those roles because that's the type of game those players have been built and developed to play. If Rielly gets hurt you have Sandin who can take those PP minutes and run with them, you have Lily and Dermott who can step in as a transition defender and secondary PK guy for a guy like Brodie. If Holl or Muzzin go down we don't have the guys who are suited to fill in those roles. A guy like Braun gives you some insurance there and takes pressure off Lily/Sandin/Dermott by allowing them to play the role they are best suited for.
 
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I bet we see one bigger deal and one depth deal by deadline day.

I bet Dermott goes the other way in the big deal and the depth deal replaces him.

Schenn would be a good target to be in a 5-7D rotation. Only concern is he can’t be relied to play big minutes with Muzzy, since neither of them can break out all that well.
 
Braun is a slower version of Bogosian.

Our 3rd pairing and PK had been much better this year without Bogosian.
 
SprDaVE said:
Brodie is already the top RD PK defenseman. I don't think that's really the issue. When a team loses a player to injury, it's always going to be a little hard to replace internally.

This is why the Leafs really need to see what Liljegren can do right now. He's been pretty good and it would be odd to take away his minutes right now. If you're trading for a rental like Braun, it isn't to replace Holl but it's to replace/compete with players like Liljegren, Dermott and maybe even Sandin. Is Braun really worth the asset(s) to play him over perfectly good defensemen, especially ones that need minutes? It's basically doing what we've been doing the last 5 years from Boyle to Plekanec to Foligno...

We're not going to develop secondary and break out players if we keep burying them in important games or long stretches for the rental veteran. We might as well really go for the big upgrade instead of just doing the rental route. Tampa Bay had no problems playing Sergachev in their runs for example, the Leafs should be going the same route.
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Yes and no

1-Toronto are in a mod win now and not a mod giving experience to young player.

2- With the actual D, they will not go far.. we see it yesterday toronto won they was outplayed at 5on5 during the 1st 40 minutes, thanks to mrazek and carolina penalties.. it was a lot easier for caroline in toronto zone to create scoring chance than toronto in carolina zone
 
Kurtz said:
Yes and even if old man Lou was to do a rebuild for the first time in his life, I doubt that he'd want to make a trade with Dubas.
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I don't see why not. Probably licking his chops at the opportunity.
 
Kurtz said:
You think so? He seemed pretty upset about the Tavares thing.
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It's possible but that seems way too petty especially since JT only had 1 team on his go-to list. He'll never admit that, but JT not choosing Toronto doesn't feel like it was ever an option. If Lou was upset I think he'd let it go by now. So much time has passed.

Lou would be chilling in upper management making millions for the Leafs if he never went to the Islanders. That's why I don't think there is any animosity. He knew beforehand how long he'd be the GM before they make up another big position to promote him to. Lous plans changed over time.
 
thusk said:
Yes and no

1-Toronto are in a mod win now and not a mod giving experience to young player.

2- With the actual D, they will not go far.. we see it yesterday toronto won they was outplayed at 5on5 during the 1st 40 minutes, thanks to mrazek and carolina penalties.. it was a lot easier for caroline in toronto zone to create scoring chance than toronto in carolina zone
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Braun won't change anything of what you said. That is the point. It's doubtful that Braun would be more efficient than Liljegren.

I completely disagree about how the Leafs were outplayed for long stretches but Carolina has a good team... The Leafs were never going to walk over them for 60 minutes. People always point to the Hurricanes as being this godly defensive team but it goes to show that Toronto can exploit a good defensive team anytime and any good team can breakdown and lose a lead.

They are in win mode now. So why not actually acquire Chychrun, or Severson, or whoever you think might be an actual top end upgrade instead of the marginal veteran rental.
 
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SprDaVE said:
Braun won't change anything of what you said. That is the point.

I completely disagree about how the Leafs were outplayed for long stretches but Carolina has a good team... The Leafs were never going to walk over them for 60 minutes. People always point to the Hurricanes as being this godly defensive team but it goes to show that Toronto can exploit a good defensive team anytime.

They are in win mode now. So why not actually acquire Chychrun, or Severson, or whoever you think might be an actual top end upgrade instead of the marginal veteran rental.
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Toronto was opportunism, except on leafs pp andersen didn't have to make a lot of good save vs Mrazek. Most of them was outside shot and kind of basic saves.

From chychrun, severson...

1- toronto dont have money available, except for a guy like mayfield whos not available.

2- none of those 2 def you just named are an upgrade defensive side of the puck, area where leafs need to improve

So when you dont have enough money in your salary cap, rental player become your best option
 
SprDaVE said:
Braun won't change anything of what you said. That is the point. It's doubtful that Braun would be more efficient than Liljegren.

I completely disagree about how the Leafs were outplayed for long stretches but Carolina has a good team... The Leafs were never going to walk over them for 60 minutes. People always point to the Hurricanes as being this godly defensive team but it goes to show that Toronto can exploit a good defensive team anytime and any good team can breakdown and lose a lead.

They are in win mode now. So why not actually acquire Chychrun, or Severson, or whoever you think might be an actual top end upgrade instead of the marginal veteran rental.
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I think Braun would be an upgrade over Holl or Lilly if he struggles in the post season. But i'm hoping we have our sights set higher (Chychrun higher, not Severson).

I also don't put much stock into a single game's result. We were outplayed most of the game last night but we are down our #3D and playing our backup, still won. Good for us, but not something you can expect to continue over a longer stretch.
 
aingefan said:
I don’t mind a buffer acquisition on the right side; I just want Lili playing in game one and staying there as long as he deserves it.
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One of the strangest things about Leaf fans is how they look in jealousy at other team's talented youngsters as great strengths but then think our talented youngsters are weaknesses that need replacing.
 
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thusk said:
Toronto was opportunism, except on leafs pp andersen didn't have to make a lot of good save vs Mrazek. Most of them was outside shot and kind of basic saves.

From chychrun, severson...

1- toronto dont have money available, except for a guy like mayfield whos not available.

2- none of those 2 def you just named are an upgrade defensive side of the puck, area where leafs need to improve

So when you dont have enough money in your salary cap, rental player become your best option
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They were opportunist? Yeah... a lot of teams are. I don't understand the negativity. It wasn't a perfect game but it was 2 good teams going head to head and we won. Sometimes you dominate and lose, sometimes it's a coin flip, sometimes you suck and win. That's hockey, but we're not going to base our team needs from one game against Carolina... right? Or are we?

The misconception that Braun would somehow make things better defensively over Holl, Liljegren, etc is really bizarre. He's alright here and he would provide a physical element we don't have a lot of. If you want to add him, it's definitely not to remove Holl. So someone has to sit.

We don't have much cap space but they definitely can make it work.

dubplatepressure said:
I think Braun would be an upgrade over Holl or Lilly if he struggles in the post season. But i'm hoping we have our sights set higher (Chychrun higher, not Severson).

I also don't put much stock into a single game's result. We were outplayed most of the game last night but we are down our #3D and playing our backup, still won. Good for us, but not something you can expect to continue over a longer stretch.
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Maybe. You can say that about a lot of players. Right now... no he isn't.
 
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dubplatepressure said:
When you say "right now" what do you mean? like as of the last game Holl played? As of the stretch since Jan 1?
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Right now as in right now. I don't see how Braun provides better "defense" than Holl. Numbers don't suggest it and I certainly don't see it when I watch Braun. We overanalyze all the mistakes Holl has made around here to justify anything.

I like Braun though and I do think you could probably make a case to sit Liljegren to play Braun. I don't think it's the right move personally but maybe Braun would give better physical defensive depth. Liljegren has potential and more skill but maybe we need a little more "safe" players... I don't know.
 
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thusk said:
Toronto was opportunism, except on leafs pp andersen didn't have to make a lot of good save vs Mrazek. Most of them was outside shot and kind of basic saves.

From chychrun, severson...

1- toronto dont have money available, except for a guy like mayfield whos not available.

2- none of those 2 def you just named are an upgrade defensive side of the puck, area where leafs need to improve

So when you dont have enough money in your salary cap, rental player become your best option
Click to expand...
I'm constantly confused why you keep passing on Chychrun just because he doesn't hit your Josh Manson checklist. If you focused more on the price to acquire him that would make more sense why we should stay away, but where I draw the line is when people talk about price AND try to make up a case where Chychruns impact will be negligible here. I'm sorry that's plain wrong. Why is it that the hockey world thinks he's worth it but a select few here think he's not? What secret information do you guys have that nobody else has access to?
 
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