GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART VI

[WTFMAN99]

With Marner and Matthews both being selke worthy players, I'd look into giving them Ho-Sang on LW and slide Bunting with JT and Nylander. Bunting works better than Kerfoot there because Kerfoot can't finish/tip around the net like Bunting. Ho Sang is better offensively than Bunting so might be able to maintain Buntings pace along side those two beasts. I don't know how Ho Sang will translate that's why I say "might" even though he's better offensively.

I don't think we need to spend heavy assets on the top 6 winger. We have the luxury of "money pucking" it due to our core 4.

Let's pretend it worked. Ho-Sang/money puck dude hit a 20 goal pace there. Bunting kept chugging along with his breakout year. We suddenly get a trade chip in Kerfoot to hit other needs. If we want Laughton, Kerfoot will help there. Flyers want to re-tool, not rebuild and Kerfoot suddenly has amazing trade value with his play this year.

Reading between the lines here I'm a no for JT Miller. Not at that price. That's counterintuitive to taking advantage of our core 4. They don't need a JT Miller.


It's 2022 cap is no longer a stranger, so I leave out the cap implications that clutter all posts. It's implied cap maneuvering is needed for every move at this point.

He's pretty much never played LW so faulty premise.

 

[Havoc]

He's pretty much never played LW so faulty premise.

Good point I don't know why I thought he was Lw/rw.

We could move Nylander to LW then and keep Bunting on line 1.

Anyways "money puck dude" is what I was more getting at. Doesn't have to be Ho Sang (As in you didn't correctly identify what the premise is)

 

[ACC1224]

i dont know why anyone would be against a sub 1mil contract that is 100% buriable ?
Any of these guys would be a better insurance policy than biego and dalstrom as the 7th or 8th guy

I'm sure there are many players that fit into that category, not just those 3.

 

[BertCorbeau]

*Hypothetical*

If the Leafs do not enjoy success in the post-season, I think we can all agree changes would be made.

Tavares holds all the cards but are there landing spots for him? Boston if Bergeron retires or wants a bit of a reduced role or Calgary (no real 1C there), Dallas, Minnesota, St.Louis (would involve some big $$ moving around).

Tavares could kill the conversation immediately but I would think 3 disappointing playoff exits in a row wouldn't be what either party envisioned when he signed in Toronto.

Toronto also needs to push back on the players and can't promise not to move anyone when zero success is the story.

I think you have to consider just about everything is on the table in this scenario. I wouldn't touch Matthews (obviously), Nylander (too good of a contract), or Rielly .. but I would probably look to move Tavares before Marner because Marner is much younger.

Leaves a heck of a hole down the middle though.

I guess you could pursue Hertl or Trochek in free agency .. but there would definitely be some contract coming back in a JT trade and if they want to get value out of a JT trade, it may not be a great player.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

With Marner and Matthews both being selke worthy players, I'd look into giving them Ho-Sang on LW and slide Bunting with JT and Nylander. Bunting works better than Kerfoot there because Kerfoot can't finish/tip around the net like Bunting. Ho Sang is better offensively than Bunting so might be able to maintain Buntings pace along side those two beasts. I don't know how Ho Sang will translate that's why I say "might" even though he's better offensively.

I don't think we need to spend heavy assets on the top 6 winger. We have the luxury of "money pucking" it due to our core 4.

Let's pretend it worked. Ho-Sang/money puck dude hit a 20 goal pace there. Bunting kept chugging along with his breakout year. We suddenly get a trade chip in Kerfoot to hit other needs. If we want Laughton, Kerfoot will help there. Flyers want to re-tool, not rebuild and Kerfoot suddenly has amazing trade value with his play this year.

Reading between the lines here I'm a no for JT Miller. Not at that price. That's counterintuitive to taking advantage of our core 4. They don't need a JT Miller.


It's 2022 cap is no longer a stranger, so I leave out the cap implications that clutter all posts. It's implied cap maneuvering is needed for every move at this point.

Ho-Sang is not better offensively than Bunting. Better puck skills and playmaking, sure. Shot, not really. He also plays a 100% perimeter game, so he would not be remotely as successful as Bunting or even Kerfoot in that role. If you want guys to get rebounds and tips, then Ho-Sang is not that guy. Almost all of his points either come off of snipes or some kind of rush. He is rarely, if ever, in the middle of the ice unless there is no pressure.

If we are looking for another Bunting and we are willing to play natural RW's on the LW, then the easy choice is Joey Anderson. He is not much of a playmaker, but he has a solid shot and he will grind out goals like nobody else on the Marlies right now. Or if we want a less flashy but far more effective version of Ho-Sang with more speed and two-way ability, then use Seney (who also happens to be a guy with experience at LW). Steeves and Robertson are also options, but I would give them more AHL time.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think you have to consider just about everything is on the table in this scenario. I wouldn't touch Matthews (obviously), Nylander (too good of a contract), or Rielly .. but I would probably look to move Tavares before Marner because Marner is much younger.

Leaves a heck of a hole down the middle though.

I guess you could pursue Hertl or Trochek in free agency .. but there would definitely be some contract coming back in a JT trade and if they want to get value out of a JT trade, it may not be a great player.

I agree with your group...won't get better bang for buck with 88's salary. Matthews stays as long as he likes and Marner is much younger than JT, why trade him?

My initial thoughts are Trochek at 5 years x 5-5.75M and ideally fitting in another wing or upgrading D...it's so dependent on other moves.

What is Muzzin LTRetires? Mrazek gone with very little sweetener required? A lot to think about.

I just don't get the blind loyalty to status quo, teams that don't win don't deserve blind loyalty from the franchise. Seems especially silly to want to trade a prime aged Marner over an older JT.

I don't know what a trade looks like...I suppose you look at 2 teams JT had on his short list in Dallas and Boston...Bergeron could retire...is Dallas still hanging on to rebuilding? What's the return like?

Foligno, Moore, pick?

Faksa, Gurionov, pick?

Better?

One thing to keep in mind is that after we pay out JT's bonus on July 1st, his final 3 years average out to 5.6M so if an owner cares about the salary more than the cap hit.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I think you have to consider just about everything is on the table in this scenario. I wouldn't touch Matthews (obviously), Nylander (too good of a contract), or Rielly .. but I would probably look to move Tavares before Marner because Marner is much younger.

Leaves a heck of a hole down the middle though.

I guess you could pursue Hertl or Trochek in free agency .. but there would definitely be some contract coming back in a JT trade and if they want to get value out of a JT trade, it may not be a great player.

Tavares would never agree to a trade, and the Leafs are never going to consider moving their captain.

If it is not Matthews, Nylander, or Rielly, then it is 100% going to be Marner.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Tavares would never agree to a trade, and the Leafs are never going to consider moving their captain.

If it is not Matthews, Nylander, or Rielly, then it is 100% going to be Marner.

Another early playoff exit and who knows.

I'd say it's highly unlikely and he would only go where he could win.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I agree with your group...won't get better bang for buck with 88's salary. Matthews stays as long as he likes and Marner is much younger than JT, why trade him?

My initial thoughts are Trochek at 5 years x 5-5.75M and ideally fitting in another wing or upgrading D...it's so dependent on other moves.

What is Muzzin LTRetires? Mrazek gone with very little sweetener required? A lot to think about.

I just don't get the blind loyalty to status quo, teams that don't win don't deserve blind loyalty from the franchise. Seems especially silly to want to trade a prime aged Marner over an older JT.

I don't know what a trade looks like...I suppose you look at 2 teams JT had on his short list in Dallas and Boston...Bergeron could retire...is Dallas still hanging on to rebuilding? What's the return like?

Foligno, Moore, pick?

Faksa, Gurionov, pick?

Better?

One thing to keep in mind is that after we pay out JT's bonus on July 1st, his final 3 years average out to 5.6M so if an owner cares about the salary more than the cap hit.

I think you need more salary coming back which makes a trade very difficult to navigate

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think you need more salary coming back which makes a trade very difficult to navigate

Faksa, Khudobin, Gurionov ?

B.Schenn, Scandella?

I just don't want to be closed to the idea of changes.

Vegas traded a Vezina winning goalie that recently re-signed to avoid UFA...Tuch and Schmidt re-signed team friendly deals, traded....

That's a team that actually had success too....as we haven't, at least consider all your options.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Another early playoff exit and who knows.

I'd say it's highly unlikely and he would only go where he could win.

I think he cares more about his family than winning, especially since the Leafs will always have among the best chances of winning regardless even if they have another early playoff exit.

He is not going to uproot his young family to go who knows where just so he can win. It doesn't really get better than Toronto for him, and really it is up to him to perform in the playoffs. He can dictate whether he wins a Cup or not... But being generally mediocre in the playoffs is not helping his own case very much.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Scott Mayfield <--> Travis Dermott & 2nd

Lawson Crouse* <--> Nick Ritchie, Nick Robertson & Pick
Extended to Ritchie-Like Contract*

Crouse - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Mikheyev - - Kampf - - Kase
Kerfoot* - Spezza - Simmonds
Engvall*

Rielly - - Brodie
Sandin - Mayfield
Muzzin - Liljigren

 

[Zookeeper]

Manson has the leafs on his no trade list

 

[keonsbitterness]

Tavares would never agree to a trade, and the Leafs are never going to consider moving their captain.

Likely true, unless the Leafs regress and he wants to chase a Cup somewhere else in the last year of his contract.

 

[Havoc]

Ho-Sang is not better offensively than Bunting. Better puck skills and playmaking, sure. Shot, not really. He also plays a 100% perimeter game, so he would not be remotely as successful as Bunting or even Kerfoot in that role. If you want guys to get rebounds and tips, then Ho-Sang is not that guy. Almost all of his points either come off of snipes or some kind of rush. He is rarely, if ever, in the middle of the ice unless there is no pressure.

If we are looking for another Bunting and we are willing to play natural RW's on the LW, then the easy choice is Joey Anderson. He is not much of a playmaker, but he has a solid shot and he will grind out goals like nobody else on the Marlies right now. Or if we want a less flashy but far more effective version of Ho-Sang with more speed and two-way ability, then use Seney (who also happens to be a guy with experience at LW). Steeves and Robertson are also options, but I would give them more AHL time.

Yeah I saw people mentioning Ho Sang so used his name first. It doesn't have to be him. Placeholder name. Would be cooler if the person came internally rather than trade. Nice win for the GM.

The general point is take advantage of the core 4 carrying offence. There's lots of options out there cheaper than the big names going around that can pace 20 goals beside matthews and marner or JT and Nylander. The list is even bigger for M/M because you also get to take advantage of their defensive impact.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Scott Mayfield <--> Travis Dermott & 2nd

Lawson Crouse* <--> Nick Ritchie, Nick Robertson & Pick
Extended to Ritchie-Like Contract*

Crouse - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Mikheyev - - Kampf - - Kase
Kerfoot* - Spezza - Simmonds
Engvall*

Rielly - - Brodie
Sandin - Mayfield
Muzzin - Liljigren

So we trade Robertson and a pick to get another guy who has the exact same strengths and weaknesses as Ritchie, but just plays a lot more and doesn't have a crap shooting percentage... And then we immediately hand him the exact contract that the Leafs need to subtract to make far more important players fit in our lineup?

You realize that you are pretty much just trading for Ritchie from the last two years right? And giving up arguably our best prospect and a pick to do so?

 

[stickty111]

Scott Mayfield <--> Travis Dermott & 2nd

Lawson Crouse* <--> Nick Ritchie, Nick Robertson & Pick
Extended to Ritchie-Like Contract*

Crouse - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Mikheyev - - Kampf - - Kase
Kerfoot* - Spezza - Simmonds
Engvall*

Rielly - - Brodie
Sandin - Mayfield
Muzzin - Liljigren

An A prospect for a 3rd liner? What could possibly go wrong

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

So we trade Robertson and a pick to get another guy who has the exact same strengths and weaknesses as Ritchie, but just plays a lot more and doesn't have a crap shooting percentage... And then we immediately hand him the exact contract that the Leafs need to subtract to make far more important players fit in our lineup?

You realize that you are pretty much just trading for Ritchie from the last two years right? And giving up arguably our best prospect and a pick to do so?

An A prospect for a 3rd liner? What could possibly go wrong

Ritchie's biggest weakness is his speed. Crouse would be able to provide more physicality due to his ability to keep up with the play and would be able to keep up with the teams speed overall.

I hope I am proven wrong, but I don't have much hope for Robertson.

 

[4thline]

Food for thought on the "we for sure need to add a D" front, Timothy Liljegren, a d-man know for his tepid starts and explosive development curves while acclimating to new leagues/roles, could quite literally double his NHL experience between now and our first playoff game.

 

[stickty111]

Ritchie's biggest weakness is his speed. Crouse would be able to provide more physicality due to his ability to keep up with the play and would be able to keep up with the teams speed overall.

I hope I am proven wrong, but I don't have much hope for Robertson.

Sure doesn't mean you trade a good prospect for that.

 

[Buds17]

Food for thought on the "we for sure need to add a D" front, Timothy Liljegren, a d-man know for his tepid starts and explosive development curves while acclimating to new leagues/roles, could quite literally double his NHL experience between now and our first playoff game.

He even has already played in more games than Sandin had upon making his NHL playoff debut. No doubt that Liljegren will experience his first playoff games with the team once that time arrives. I'm still expecting the team to have interest in bolstering the blueline though to some extent with the hope of making a run.

 

[The Podium]

Manson has the leafs on his no trade list

How true is that?

 

[Havoc]

How true is that?

Friedman said it in a podcast

 

[Legion34]

How true is that?

Freidman said someone who would know told
Him this. But he also said that he thinks it could be a way to shutdown a conversation and that doesn’t 100% mean anything

last we were told brodie had us on too and signed as a ufa.

who knows. People play up the American thing but he is every bit as Canadian. He grew up in Canada and his family settled in sask.

Who knows.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Ritchie's biggest weakness is his speed. Crouse would be able to provide more physicality due to his ability to keep up with the play and would be able to keep up with the teams speed overall.

I hope I am proven wrong, but I don't have much hope for Robertson.

Crouse is not exactly a fast skater either, so I don't know why anyone would think he can keep up but Ritchie can't. He is not any more physical than Ritchie either... And takes just as many stupid penalties too.

The only thing Crouse really has on Ritchie is he is a little bit better in his own end... But I am not trotting him out over our current shutdown guys.

He is Nick Ritchie playing in a top line role on a crap team with a shooting percentage that does not suck. He is, at best, a 4th liner here and if his shooting percentage regresses again, then he is literally the same problem we have with Ritchie.

This is also the same reason why it won't be that hard to find a taker for Ritchie. There are teams that will probably drool over a Lawson Crouse but can't get him, so they will instead turn to us and get Ritchie for far less either right now (where they can send some money our way in the form of a pending UFA, which we can afford to eat) or in the offseason when he only has one year left on his deal and he is far easier to fit in.