GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART V

[GoLeafsGo96]

Posted in the other lines thread but:

Barring the ability to get a good right shot top four D on a reasonable deal (Severson for example) - I think what they should do is try to get Hertl or Pavelski (a legit top end forward rental). Then what I would do is:

Bunting - Matthews - Nylander
Hertl - Tavares - Marner
Kerfoot - Kampf - Kase
Mikheyev Engvall Spezza

Make the opposing teams in the playoffs choose to defensively match Matthews-Nylander or that supercharged Tavares line.

I assume an injury or two will move Mikheyev back into the top nine at some point but this gives you a few more options.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Nashville is a competitive team though, which likely reduces the probability that they make such a move. I've really liked Myers though, and had hoped we could get him out of Philly as early as two years ago.

Columbus isn't so competitive. Andrew Peeke is a young emerging middle pairing guy, physical, mobile, defensively strong.... That's the type we should target, if we can't cheaply get a more experienced guy.

Myers is their #7 right now. He is healthy scratched often. He is not helping them much right now, just like Ritchie is not helping us much right now. Plus he makes 2.55 mill for the next two years, much like Ritchie. Cousins is not healthy scratched, but I doubt they are super attached to him either. He is mostly just there to replace Ritchie as an extra forward/4th liner, but if Nashville doesn't want to trade him, we can easily find a different rental who fits the bill for a mid-round pick.

We are a competitive team too. Dermott and Ritchie are guys who would help us on our run right now, and would help Nashville with their Cup run... It's a mutual benefit for two playoff teams to give three guys who should be in an everyday lineup another chance to do so on a different playoff team (in another conference, for a similar amount of cap cost, with a similar amount of upside).

Everyone wants that big, physical, large shot RHD for our top 6. Myers literally fits that bill, but he can also skate and handle the puck fairly well, and he has the control that Dubas would want as well.

 

[Fogelhund]

Myers is their #7 right now. He is healthy scratched often. He is not helping them much right now, just like Ritchie is not helping us much right now. Plus he makes 2.55 mill for the next two years, much like Ritchie. Cousins is not healthy scratched, but I doubt they are super attached to him either. He is mostly just there to replace Ritchie as an extra forward/4th liner, but if Nashville doesn't want to trade him, we can easily find a different rental who fits the bill for a mid-round pick.

We are a competitive team too. Dermott and Ritchie are guys who would help us on our run right now, and would help Nashville with their Cup run... It's a mutual benefit for two playoff teams to give three guys who should be in an everyday lineup another chance to do so on a different playoff team (in another conference, for a similar amount of cap cost, with a similar amount of upside).

Everyone wants that big, physical, large shot RHD for our top 6. Myers literally fits that bill, but he can also skate and handle the puck fairly well, and he has the control that Dubas would want as well.

I'd rather get the guy making $787,500 for the next two years, currently playing top four minutes, than the guy making $2.55 mil, currently being used as a #7....

 

[TML1967]

I'd rather get the guy making $787,500 for the next two years, currently playing top four minutes, than the guy making $2.55 mil, currently being used as a #7....

In a vacum, sure.

I have wondered how big a difference the cap plays on a guys value.

Using those numbers, if both guys offer an identical impact how much more valuable is a 787k guy than a 2.55m guy?

Do you add an additional 1st? 2nd? 3rd?

Hockey being the only truly hard cap league makes it hard to compare to other sports as well.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I'd rather get the guy making $787,500 for the next two years, currently playing top four minutes, than the guy making $2.55 mil, currently being used as a #7....

You think Columbus wants to move an almost 24 year old RHD who makes next to nothing and is a great fit for their system? If they ever consider it, it would be for a lot more than Ritchie and Dermott. I advocated Peeke last year, but that was when he was likely a lot more expendable.

On top of that, Peeke is way over his head in a top 4 role right now, even for a guy who is playing heavy defensive minutes. They just have no one else right now. I am not even sure he would upgrade our top 6.

Myers has uncertainty too but at least he has proven, not even a year ago, that he is a capable top 4 defenseman. He was the guy expected to step in and be a top 4 replacement for Ellis in Nashville. It hasn't worked out, but it doesn't take away what he has proven as a guy who is only 1 year older than Peeke.

You are buying low on Myers, and buying high on Peeke. I'd rather the buy-low option that costs us things we can live without than the buy high option which will certainly cost us serious assets.

 

[LeafChief]

If you overlook a really bad season this year, then Phil Myers out of Nashville is still the one who makes the most sense for the potential price, cap structure, etc.

I think we can get him + Cousins (@50%) for Ritchie, Dermott, and a prospect. That gives us a cheap but quality 4th liner/depth forward with grit and a guy with the potential to be a top 4 upgrade for two players and a prospect we can afford to move.

That's definitely an interesting proposal.

Gets ride of Ritchie and Myers is someone that I've liked for a while (although I haven't watched him play at all since he was traded from Philly). His cap hit is high but it matches Ritchie's and he's a bigger/tough d-men.

Interesting for sure. I wonder what other options there are on D. Don't mind Lybushkin (spelling?) from Arizona but I believe he's a UFA.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

That's definitely an interesting proposal.

Gets ride of Ritchie and Myers is someone that I've liked for a while (although I haven't watched him play at all since he was traded from Philly). His cap hit is high but it matches Ritchie's and he's a bigger/tough d-men.

Interesting for sure. I wonder what other options there are on D. Don't mind Lybushkin (spelling?) from Arizona but I believe he's a UFA.

I mean it certainly beats overpaying for overhyped rentals. There is maybe more risk in seeing if Myers rebounds, but there is also no guarantee a Manson/Chiarot/etc. perform well here either, and there is a lot less risk in terms of what he costs to acquire. We have a fairly good group of guys as it is, and paying a premium for a guy who may not even be a serious upgrade is not something we should entertain (especially if they are a rental). I mean people thought Savard was going to do well in Tampa or Foligno was going to do well here, and both sucked.

Lyubushkin is a decent option as a depth option with some upside, but I don't see how he is a guaranteed upgrade on Liljegren, Dermott, or Holl, and I certainly wouldn't pay for him like he is one. At best you are looking at something like what happened with Hakanpaa last year (Lyubushkin + pick for Dermott; similar to Hakanpaa + 6th for Haydn Fleury).

 

[123offtheglass]

Close to TDL, how about:

Calvin De Haan @ 50%

for

Travis Dermott

 

[Fogelhund]

I mean it certainly beats overpaying for overhyped rentals. There is maybe more risk in seeing if Myers rebounds, but there is also no guarantee a Manson/Chiarot/etc. perform well here either, and there is a lot less risk in terms of what he costs to acquire. We have a fairly good group of guys as it is, and paying a premium for a guy who may not even be a serious upgrade is not something we should entertain (especially if they are a rental). I mean people thought Savard was going to do well in Tampa or Foligno was going to do well here, and both sucked.

Lyubushkin is a decent option as a depth option with some upside, but I don't see how he is a guaranteed upgrade on Liljegren, Dermott, or Holl, and I certainly wouldn't pay for him like he is one. At best you are looking at something like what happened with Hakanpaa last year (Lyubushkin + pick for Dermott; similar to Hakanpaa + 6th for Haydn Fleury).

I do like, and appreciate looking for D men, that aren't the big names... the Chychrun's, etc.... Myers, Peeke, Hakanpaa, Lyubuskin have all been names I've talked about the last two years. If Manson was a guy who would extend around $3 mil, I'd do that deal, and I think he's better than what he's looked the last two years. People got caught up in an outlier one year offensive season, that was never going to be repeated. Anaheim had struggled, and often everyone looks bad under such circumstances. Hey, we are all trying to find solutions to the same issue, and think alike, even if we disagree at times.

 

[LeafChief]

I do like, and appreciate looking for D men, that aren't the big names... the Chychrun's, etc.... Myers, Peeke, Hakanpaa, Lyubuskin have all been names I've talked about the last two years. If Manson was a guy who would extend around $3 mil, I'd do that deal, and I think he's better than what he's looked the last two years. People got caught up in an outlier one year offensive season, that was never going to be repeated. Anaheim had struggled, and often everyone looks bad under such circumstances. Hey, we are all trying to find solutions to the same issue, and think alike, even if we disagree at times.

If Manson would agree to extend to next year for 2.5-3 mill that would make him a lot more interesting for me.

 

[zeke]

I do like, and appreciate looking for D men, that aren't the big names... the Chychrun's, etc.... Myers, Peeke, Hakanpaa, Lyubuskin have all been names I've talked about the last two years. If Manson was a guy who would extend around $3 mil, I'd do that deal, and I think he's better than what he's looked the last two years. People got caught up in an outlier one year offensive season, that was never going to be repeated. Anaheim had struggled, and often everyone looks bad under such circumstances. Hey, we are all trying to find solutions to the same issue, and think alike, even if we disagree at times.

To be honest I don't understand how so many Leafs don't see that most all of those names ate likely downgrades, not upgrades.

These names are mostly #6-8 guys on much worse teams and defenses than ours.

 

[ShaneFalco]

To be honest I don't understand how so many Leafs don't see that most all of those names ate likely downgrades, not upgrades.

These names are mostly #6-8 guys on much worse teams and defenses than ours.

Says the poster with a Dubas avatar and just a slightly biased opinion of some players on this team

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Who are some D not named Chychrun that may be available with some term beyond this season?

Soucy.

 

[Brobust]

To be honest I don't understand how so many Leafs don't see that most all of those names ate likely downgrades, not upgrades.

These names are mostly #6-8 guys on much worse teams and defenses than ours.

People don't have confidence in an inexperienced 3rd pair.

People don't have any confidence in Justin Holl, though he's looked a lot better since returning from COVID, and are rapidly losing confidence in Jake Muzzin.

All this leads to a lot of desperation in the fanbase.

Anyway, their issues come playoffs is lack of scoring so I don't really see the need to panic over the defence so much.

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

To be honest I don't understand how so many Leafs don't see that most all of those names ate likely downgrades, not upgrades.

These names are mostly #6-8 guys on much worse teams and defenses than ours.

Its true - which is why I don't see the point in adding a D man unless its a legitimate top four guy at 50% retained or something unique. Otherwise just go get the best rental forward available (Hertl, Pavelski come to mind if either SJ or DAL sells) that they can fit and go from there.

 

[showtime8]

I wonder if there would be any interest in Philly trading Scott Laughton. Have the Flyers retain so that it works out to be $2.25 - $2.5, send Dermott, Ritchie & prospects/picks so that you can have him as your 3rd line centre or even have the availability to move him to the wing.

With Philly going nowhere fast, I would think they want to start bringing in prospects and picks to turn over that roster.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I wonder if there would be any interest in Philly trading Scott Laughton. Have the Flyers retain so that it works out to be $2.25 - $2.5, send Dermott, Ritchie & prospects/picks so that you can have him as your 3rd line centre or even have the availability to move him to the wing.

With Philly going nowhere fast, I would think they want to start bringing in prospects and picks to turn over that roster.

I have no idea what Philly will do but they need to blow that team up… their big moves last year have massively flopped

Laughton would be a great addition. If not now, in the offseason.

 

[showtime8]

Its true - which is why I don't see the point in adding a D man unless its a legitimate top four guy at 50% retained or something unique. Otherwise just go get the best rental forward available (Hertl, Pavelski come to mind if either SJ or DAL sells) that they can fit and go from there.

So you think it's not worth just shuffling the deck chairs (ie. trading #6 for #6), just for the sake of making a trade?

Personally, I think you need to make a trade for a guy with a bit of an edge. Jeremy Lauzon is the guy from Seattle that would make sense. Great contract, can skate and has some physicality in his game that is completely different than what the Leafs have on the back end.

 

[showtime8]

I have no idea what Philly will do but they need to blow that team up… their big moves last year have massively flopped

Laughton would be a great addition. If not now, in the offseason.

I mean there's the easy targets on that team with who they can move, but thinking about using the assets wisely with the Leafs, he's a guy that's a bit different than what's currently in the line-up and you would love the have for some physicality and some depth.

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

So you think it's not worth just shuffling the deck chairs (ie. trading #6 for #6), just for the sake of making a trade?

Personally, I think you need to make a trade for a guy with a bit of an edge. Jeremy Lauzon is the guy from Seattle that would make sense. Great contract, can skate and has some physicality in his game that is completely different than what the Leafs have on the back end.

I just don't think depth is a problem for this team and org, whether its up front or on the backend. If they run into multiple injuries to Rielly/Muzzin/Brodie they're in trouble either way, and getting an extra 6th D man isn't going to help them there. Without the injuries - getting a Lauzon means two of Holl/Sandin/Dermott/Liljegren are not playing. Not that those guys are at all worldbeaters, but I don't think they need to push them out for another 5/6, especially if they have to pay draft picks that could otherwise be used to do it.

They have callups/internal options that can play 3rd/4th line 3rd pairing depth roles. If they're making a move - I prefer them to get a legitimate top 6/top four guy who might play lower in the lineup to start but gives them a legitimate upgrade that could tangibly offset some of the injury risk if one of the core get hurt.

Right now the lines up front look great. Take out Tavares again and things look bleaker - especially if you're running through Tampa/Florida in round 1.

 

[zeke]

People don't have confidence in an inexperienced 3rd pair.

People don't have any confidence in Justin Holl, though he's looked a lot better since returning from COVID, and are rapidly losing confidence in Jake Muzzin.

.

Maybe those people should look at the team's performance and defensive performance and realize that they are obviously wrong.

 

[showtime8]

I just don't think depth is a problem for this team and org, whether its up front or on the backend. If they run into multiple injuries to Rielly/Muzzin/Brodie they're in trouble either way, and getting an extra 6th D man isn't going to help them there. Without the injuries - getting a Lauzon means two of Holl/Sandin/Dermott/Liljegren are not playing. Not that those guys are at all worldbeaters, but I don't think they need to push them out for another 5/6, especially if they have to pay draft picks that could otherwise be used to do it.

They have callups/internal options that can play 3rd/4th line 3rd pairing depth roles. If they're making a move - I prefer them to get a legitimate top 6/top four guy who might play lower in the lineup to start but gives them a legitimate upgrade that could tangibly offset some of the injury risk if one of the core get hurt.

Right now the lines up front look great. Take out Tavares again and things look bleaker - especially if you're running through Tampa/Florida in round 1.

Okay, I get what you're saying.

Personally, I think that they need to have a different look in terms of what they can put out there on the back end. Right now, they look good in the way that they're playing. But in the back of my mind, I always think to the playoffs or games that they have lost this season where they have got pushed around a bit, they have folded. I get that in a 82 game season, you're not going to be 100% every night and there will be stretches that they look really good and really bad. But you have a back end that looks very similar to each other 3-6 (currently outside of Muzzin). Guys that can skate and move the puck, but no one that will lay the big hit. I'm not talking about the Sandin reverse hits, I'm talking standing someone up at the blueline or neutral zone.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[SeaOfBlue]

To be honest I don't understand how so many Leafs don't see that most all of those names ate likely downgrades, not upgrades.

These names are mostly #6-8 guys on much worse teams and defenses than ours.

That is why I am only suggesting things that have other benefits. A Myers trade lets the Leafs move on from Ritchie while getting a worthwhile return with great upside... And it only costs us Dermott. The downside is we are pretty much in the same position we would be in right now with different names (Myers instead of Dermott; Cousins instead of Ritchie; and maybe one less mediocre prospect on our depth chart).

No 1sts, no top prospects, and no big prices on guys who are almost certainly moving on after this year anyways.

 

[Scion]

People don't have confidence in an inexperienced 3rd pair.

People don't have any confidence in Justin Holl, though he's looked a lot better since returning from COVID, and are rapidly losing confidence in Jake Muzzin.

All this leads to a lot of desperation in the fanbase.

Anyway, their issues come playoffs is lack of scoring so I don't really see the need to panic over the defence so much.

You know what is worse than an unproven defenceman? A proven shitty defenceman.