GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART IV

[thusk]

Why exactly do we need to upgrade our forward group?

I can see trying to replace Holl... or more physicality in the D... but our forward group has chemistry, and is pretty solid.

To replace holl for a better RD, you need better RD available and need to be a short terme term or low price dman because with campbell to resig and rielly going 7.5M leafs dont have a lot of money available.

The 3 best option was ld and 1 of those 3 is sign long term.

Why foward? I will answer you Why stop looking to upgrade your team?

 

[Kiwi]

If we are moving Mrazek now, then Edmonton would need to make it worth our while. We are not dumping Mrazek after playing 3 games when we still need him for the exact reason we gave him a 3.8 x 3 contract in the first place... And especially not to replace him with Koskinen.

If we need his cap space in the offseason, we will trade him at that point. Given the weak crop of goalies who can start like he can in UFA, I doubt it will be difficult for Dubas to move him. I would not be surprised if we can even find a good return for him.

That's why I asked what people would want to "help" Edmonton out

Mrazek has played 3 games, which is one of the problems with him and we gave him that contract because Campbell still had question marks
That concern has certainly lessened

I can remember people telling me not to worry about getting rid of Marleau as well, it's bloody hard to move money and take nothing back now days even if teams need goaltending

 

[SeaOfBlue]

That's why I asked what people would want to "help" Edmonton out

Mrazek has played 3 games, which is one of the problems with him and we gave him that contract because Campbell still had question marks
That concern has certainly lessened

I can remember people telling me not to worry about getting rid of Marleau as well, it's bloody hard to move money and take nothing back now days even if teams need goaltending

That is because people felt like Lou had a plan when his plan was the same as all of his other plans: "I am out, and it is the next guy's problem".

Mrazek is not an over the hill 37 year old with a near impossible NTC and a stupid bonus structure. He has no bonuses, he is still a very valuable asset (both to us and other teams), and he is only turning 30 in February. Literally the only reason Dubas would even consider moving Mrazek is to afford Campbell, and I am not even convinced Dubas will even consider him as the first guy to move to try and make it work.

While Campbell has done well to establish himself as more of an everyday starter right now, his workload is still as much of a concern as it always has been... The Leafs probably just did not expect Campbell to have to play as much as he has thus far and hoped they could spread it out more over the course of the year. I would still expect Mrazek to getting into more games ASAP, and will still be used as a tandem starter even if it is more of a 60/40 split instead of 50/50.

I think the question is more than helping Edmonton out. It is why the Leafs would even consider moving Mrazek right now for anything less than a nice premium. We can help Edmonton out and still only receive fair value or a small premium, but even that doesn't really make sense when we still need Mrazek ourselves, and can afford to keep him for at least the rest of this year.

 

[meefer]

Regardless of how many games Mrazak has played so far, I have more confidence in him winning a few games in the playoffs for us than I have in: Hutch, Woll, Scott, Kallgren or (gulp) Koskinen. If Dubas were to move him for Koskinen, for me the return would have to be impressively high.

Even as many have complained (me included) about the state of our defense, we have the 3rd best GAA in the league after 32 games, largely because of Campbell, but ours' is not the most suspect of all the contending teams. Sandin and Liljegren have been excellent in all respects as our 3rd pair. Rielly and Brodie have been pretty much all I could ask for, good to better than at ES, PP and PKing with success. For me the question lies with Muzz, Holl, and to a lesser extent, Dermott. The questions I'd ask are, a) is Muzzin injured, b) if yes, is he expected to heal in time or is this chronic, c) can Holl or Dermott perform better than they have, and d) can Liljegren successfully take over on the right side on the 2nd pair? An improvement on any one of those players to date sees us stronger in the long term and I'd be confident with them going forward. If they remain what they've been to date, I'd be looking to make a move to strengthen our D.

While our forwards have been impressive lately, I cannot shake the decline in their performances the last few playoffs. Injuries have hurt, sure, but there has been a lack of 'taking care of business'/swagger/confidence, whatever it is, that worries me. I'd love to see an upgrade on Ritchie's contributions, but I think I'd prefer to see a swing for the fences type of move that really bolsters our top 6 so that it isn't as vulnerable to a letdown. Matthews and Tavares are safe as houses, unless Dubas goes nuclear so too are Marner and Nylander. That leaves Bunting and Kerfoot as potentials for replacement. As Kerfoot is quietly playing quite well right now, and carries the bigger cap hit - offsetting cap implications - I'd consider moving him and a few other pieces to upgrade.

I'd consider something along the lines of:

Kerfoot, Kase, and Pontious Holmberg to the Flyers for Claude Giroux at 50%. Kerfoot signed for next year, Kase having an impressive year and an RFA at the end of this year, Holmberg scoring 24 points in 29 games in the SHL at 22 years of age. We'd gain about 500K in salary cap savings. If Giroux wishes to finish his career a Flyer, he can re-sign with them after winning the Cup here.
also
Ritchie and our 3rd in '23 to Arizona for Crouse. I just can't watch Ritchie plod up the ice anymore. Crouse is faster, can PK a bit, and offers similar numbers offensively and in the hit department. We save 900K.

 

[Kiwi]

Regardless of how many games Mrazak has played so far, I have more confidence in him winning a few games in the playoffs for us than I have in: Hutch, Woll, Scott, Kallgren or (gulp) Koskinen. If Dubas were to move him for Koskinen, for me the return would have to be impressively high.

Even as many have complained (me included) about the state of our defense, we have the 3rd best GAA in the league after 32 games, largely because of Campbell, but ours' is not the most suspect of all the contending teams. Sandin and Liljegren have been excellent in all respects as our 3rd pair. Rielly and Brodie have been pretty much all I could ask for, good to better than at ES, PP and PKing with success. For me the question lies with Muzz, Holl, and to a lesser extent, Dermott. The questions I'd ask are, a) is Muzzin injured, b) if yes, is he expected to heal in time or is this chronic, c) can Holl or Dermott perform better than they have, and d) can Liljegren successfully take over on the right side on the 2nd pair? An improvement on any one of those players to date sees us stronger in the long term and I'd be confident with them going forward. If they remain what they've been to date, I'd be looking to make a move to strengthen our D.

While our forwards have been impressive lately, I cannot shake the decline in their performances the last few playoffs. Injuries have hurt, sure, but there has been a lack of 'taking care of business'/swagger/confidence, whatever it is, that worries me. I'd love to see an upgrade on Ritchie's contributions, but I think I'd prefer to see a swing for the fences type of move that really bolsters our top 6 so that it isn't as vulnerable to a letdown. Matthews and Tavares are safe as houses, unless Dubas goes nuclear so too are Marner and Nylander. That leaves Bunting and Kerfoot as potentials for replacement. As Kerfoot is quietly playing quite well right now, and carries the bigger cap hit - offsetting cap implications - I'd consider moving him and a few other pieces to upgrade.

I'd consider something along the lines of:

Kerfoot, Kase, and Pontious Holmberg to the Flyers for Claude Giroux at 50%. Kerfoot signed for next year, Kase having an impressive year and an RFA at the end of this year, Holmberg scoring 24 points in 29 games in the SHL at 22 years of age. We'd gain about 500K in salary cap savings. If Giroux wishes to finish his career a Flyer, he can re-sign with them after winning the Cup here.
also
Ritchie and our 3rd in '23 to Arizona for Crouse. I just can't watch Ritchie plod up the ice anymore. Crouse is faster, can PK a bit, and offers similar numbers offensively and in the hit department. We save 900K.

No to the Giroux deal

Kerfoot is playing extremely well and this is the best 3rd line we've had for awhile

Hurting our scoring depth to marginally upgrade the top 6 seems counterproductive to me

The more lines we can attack with the better imo

 

[meefer]

No to the Giroux deal

Kerfoot is playing extremely well and this is the best 3rd line we've had for awhile

Hurting our scoring depth to marginally upgrade the top 6 seems counterproductive to me

The more lines we can attack with the better imo

Giroux is currently scoring at a +70 point pace, is proven in the playoffs, offers good underlying stats (from an article in the Athletic, too difficult to find on phone to link, sorry) and would offer, imo, an upgrade at C compared to Kerfoot, were Matthews/Tavares injured. He’s gone to war in the playoffs, and would bring a degree of resolve I think this team has missed in the past.
I understand your 3 line argument, and I’d generally agree. But, Mikheyev, Kamph, and Engvall offer a pretty solid 3rd line presence on their own. Certainly as a shutdown, but I do think some offence could be there.
Anyway, carry on.

 

[thusk]

Giroux is currently scoring at a +70 point pace, is proven in the playoffs, offers good underlying stats (from an article in the Athletic, too difficult to find on phone to link, sorry) and would offer, imo, an upgrade at C compared to Kerfoot, were Matthews/Tavares injured. He’s gone to war in the playoffs, and would bring a degree of resolve I think this team has missed in the past.
I understand your 3 line argument, and I’d generally agree. But, Mikheyev, Kamph, and Engvall offer a pretty solid 3rd line presence on their own. Certainly as a shutdown, but I do think some offence could be there.
Anyway, carry on.

I'm agree with you but for me its not giroux leafs should try to get but Joe Pavelski. Hes more like the piece leafs need. Bring offensive and everything you need but hes clutch. Get the guy who able to score the late tying goal or the winning goal of the serie to finally give a 1st round win.

 

[ACC1224]

Giroux is currently scoring at a +70 point pace, is proven in the playoffs, offers good underlying stats (from an article in the Athletic, too difficult to find on phone to link, sorry) and would offer, imo, an upgrade at C compared to Kerfoot, were Matthews/Tavares injured. He’s gone to war in the playoffs, and would bring a degree of resolve I think this team has missed in the past.
I understand your 3 line argument, and I’d generally agree. But, Mikheyev, Kamph, and Engvall offer a pretty solid 3rd line presence on their own. Certainly as a shutdown, but I do think some offence could be there.
Anyway, carry on.

Giroux is also good buddies with Marner so he will have no issues fitting in the room.
I don't see how they could get it done though and make the team better.

 

[SprDaVE]

The Oilers and Leafs make good trade partners, one of the reasons why I'm not particularly worried about of the team has to move on from Mrazek, teams always need goalies.

Though for him I see that more as an offseason move. I'd personally like a solid 1b for the Leafs this playoffs if the nightmare situation happens with Campbell. I don't want to see Woll or Hutch during the playoffs.

They'd likely jump on either Holl or Dermott for a pick if they were offered.

100% an off-season move. I don't think it would be overly hard for the Leafs to move him at all. The goaltending market is pretty bad going into the off-season. Fleury (close to retirement), Koskinen (sucks), Kuemper (good but expensive), Greiss (older and meh), Francouz (decent), Jones (pretty meh to bad), Holtby (solid) and Halak (close to retirement). Mrazek would be attractive as a stop gap goaltender for any team after that list, especially in a soft trade, but Mrazek needs to play and hopefully he does better in the 2nd half of the season.

As for the Oilers, they are like the Leafs where they are money in/money out for any trade in season. Koskinen is one of the worst "starting" goaltenders I've seen so I have zero appetite for that.

 

[LeafChief]

Anyone have any info on Andrei Kuzmenko in the KHL? 96 born so relatively young compared to other KHL UFAs we have tried. Absolutely killing it this year with St. Petersburg.

Is he expected to jump to the NHL at some point?

@Caser @Zine

 

[meefer]

I'm agree with you but for me its not giroux leafs should try to get but Joe Pavelski. Hes more like the piece leafs need. Bring offensive and everything you need but hes clutch. Get the guy who able to score the late tying goal or the winning goal of the serie to finally give a 1st round win.

Giroux is also good buddies with Marner so he will have no issues fitting in the room.
I don't see how they could get it done though and make the team better.

*Pavelski is playing on a team (Dallas) which is currently closer to playoff games than is Philly. I agree he is tempting, and might cost less. I think he might be a later consideration then Giroux, time frame wise. A solid player, but I'd ask if you think he could deal with the 'every other day' nature of the playoffs? 37 years of age v 33 years of age...who might survive the demands better?
*I take it you don't like my offer (get it done?), what might you consider to be an acceptable offer?

 

[ACC1224]

*Pavelski is playing on a team (Dallas) which is currently closer to playoff games than is Philly. I agree he is tempting, and might cost less. I think he might be a later consideration then Giroux, time frame wise. A solid player, but I'd ask if you think he could deal with the 'every other day' nature of the playoffs? 37 years of age v 33 years of age...who might survive the demands better?
*I take it you don't like my offer (get it done?), what might you consider to be an acceptable offer?

Sorry, didn't see your offer in the post I quoted.

 

[meefer]

Sorry, didn't see your offer in the post I quoted.

No worries, do you see a way that isn't to penal?

 

[ACC1224]

No worries, do you see a way that isn't to penal?

At a quick glance no. I'm sure the math could be worked out using Mrazek, Engvall and Ritchie, etc but I doubt the Flyers would want any of those guys.

 

[Fogelhund]

Just because it's being discussed here, Giroux's cap hit, right at the deadline, with 50% retained is $620,625.

 

[thusk]

*Pavelski is playing on a team (Dallas) which is currently closer to playoff games than is Philly. I agree he is tempting, and might cost less. I think he might be a later consideration then Giroux, time frame wise. A solid player, but I'd ask if you think he could deal with the 'every other day' nature of the playoffs? 37 years of age v 33 years of age...who might survive the demands better?
*I take it you don't like my offer (get it done?), what might you consider to be an acceptable offer?

We don't talk about for a player for the next 3 year, we talk about a player for max 28 playoff game.

Yes hes 37 but still produce 1 pts/ game and still play at high level. Im more confident to see pavelski pay the price and do every dirty thing and giving everything he can to win than giroux.

 

[meefer]

At a quick glance no. I'm sure the math could be worked out using Mrazek, Engvall and Ritchie, etc but I doubt the Flyers would want any of those guys.

My offer was substantially higher: Kerfoot, Kase and Holmgren. To include Mrazak demands the acceptance of Jones. I'm not sure about that. I'm also doubtful that Philly would want Ritchie given their cap situation, they're up against it tighter than we are. Kase would be a loss, certainly. Is Giroux substantially better than Kerfoot, and Engvall not so damaging as the loss of Kase, those to me would be the discussion base. I'd lean towards acquiring Giroux, we're very close to being a solid contender for the Cup, if we are not already. I'd go for it.

 

[meefer]

We don't talk about for a player for the next 3 year, we talk about a player for max 28 playoff game.

Yes hes 37 but still produce 1 pts/ game and still play at high level. Im more confident to see pavelski pay the price and do every dirty thing and giving everything he can to win than giroux.

Fair comment. I'd not be sad to get Pav. I just prefer Giroux. 1) you can find a spot for Giroux on the top two lines without having to switch Nylander to RW, which you'd have to do with Pavelski, and two, while Joe is doing fine at this moment, he's doing it having played 29 games over 2.5 months, not every other night, which can be the reality of playoff hockey. I'll lean my stick on the guy 33 v 37 at that point in the season. But, that's me. What would you consider to be his cost to acquire?

 

[ACC1224]

My offer was substantially higher: Kerfoot, Kase and Holmgren. To include Mrazak demands the acceptance of Jones. I'm not sure about that. I'm also doubtful that Philly would want Ritchie given their cap situation, they're up against it tighter than we are. Kase would be a loss, certainly. Is Giroux substantially better than Kerfoot, and Engvall not so damaging as the loss of Kase, those to me would be the discussion base. I'd lean towards acquiring Giroux, we're very close to being a solid contender for the Cup, if we are not already. I'd go for it.

Got it. Kerfoot and Kase would be huge losses IMO but Giroux would certainly be an excellent addition. I agree Engvall and Ritchie would be of no interest, ideaaly they are the two forwards that could be upgraded.
Tough call.

 

[Fogelhund]

Got it. Kerfoot and Kase would be huge losses IMO but Giroux would certainly be an excellent addition. I agree Engvall and Ritchie would be of no interest, ideaaly they are the two forwards that could be upgraded.
Tough call.

What's the odds we resign Giroux though?

Kerfoot we have under control for next year, and it wouldn't shock me to see Kase resign next year.... It's a tough one to have a short time with Giroux, vs. another year with Kerfoot and Kase.

If you pick up Giroux, he has to be an addition to the team, not subtracting good roster players. If we brought in Giroux @ 50%, and Martin Jones as the backup, and moved out Ritchie and Mrazek (Even in separate deals), it's a net zero cap transaction... that's how you'd bring players in, and improve the team overall. Of course, it would cost a bunch of futures for Giroux.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Just because it's being discussed here, Giroux's cap hit, right at the deadline, with 50% retained is $620,625.

Have the leafs been accuring cap all season though with the LTIR they have been using?

 

[ACC1224]

What's the odds we resign Giroux though?

Kerfoot we have under control for next year, and it wouldn't shock me to see Kase resign next year.... It's a tough one to have a short time with Giroux, vs. another year with Kerfoot and Kase.

If you pick up Giroux, he has to be an addition to the team, not subtracting good roster players. If we brought in Giroux @ 50%, and Martin Jones as the backup, and moved out Ritchie and Mrazek (Even in separate deals), it's a net zero cap transaction... that's how you'd bring players in, and improve the team overall. Of course, it would cost a bunch of futures for Giroux.

You'd like to think he'd re-sign but obviously there is no guarantee.
Kerfoot has proven to be a dependable player and is very popular with his teammates, I doubt they move him.

Agree, you can't subtract much from the roster. Engvall, Ritchie and Mrazek are pretty much it for me and I don't think the team is looking to move Ritchie.

 

[Fogelhund]

I don't think the team is looking to move Ritchie.

The timing....

 

[ACC1224]

The timing....

Paper move

 

[Kiwi]

Giroux is currently scoring at a +70 point pace, is proven in the playoffs, offers good underlying stats (from an article in the Athletic, too difficult to find on phone to link, sorry) and would offer, imo, an upgrade at C compared to Kerfoot, were Matthews/Tavares injured. He’s gone to war in the playoffs, and would bring a degree of resolve I think this team has missed in the past.
I understand your 3 line argument, and I’d generally agree. But, Mikheyev, Kamph, and Engvall offer a pretty solid 3rd line presence on their own. Certainly as a shutdown, but I do think some offence could be there.
Anyway, carry on.

I've got no problem if we can upgrade Kerfoot with Giroux I'm just wondering if there's a way to make the money work without Kase in the deal because I believe he is driving that 3rd line

Like Kerfoot plus futures for Giroux at 50%