GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART II

[ACC1224]

I'm saying that Debrusk is a better offensive player, loves to hit and is a much better forechecker. He is bigger and faster than Kerfoot. I've seen enough of him that I think he is a better player and would have more of an impact playing on the 2nd line than Kerfoot would.

The only time Debrusk would be considered better than Kerfoot is if Kerfoot were to leave and Debrusk brought in.

 

[Dekes For Days]

There were league mvp and Stanley cup champs making less

Because they signed their contracts before winning league MVP titles, which means it has no relevance to their contract and cannot be considered in any contract comparison. Not sure why you think player contracts are based on team accomplishments, but barely any high-end players in the cap era won a cup before they signed their post-ELC contract anyway.

if ur complaining about current contracts being signed with very little production to back them up then marner is def in that boat also

Except he's not at all. Marner had the production levels during his pre-signing period to justify that contract. Elite at ES, elite on the PP, an excellent PKer, and good defensively - topped off by one of the best pre-2nd contract-signing seasons in the history of the cap era. Term included, Marner received the 10th highest value post-ELC contract in the cap era, and had roughly the 6th best production level in his career prior to signing, despite Babcock doing his best to limit his production relative to how other young stars have historically been treated in the same situations.

 

[kb]

Because they signed their contracts before winning league MVP titles, which means it has no relevance to their contract and cannot be considered in any contract comparison. Not sure why you think player contracts are based on team accomplishments, but barely any high-end players in the cap era won a cup before they signed their post-ELC contract anyway.

Except he's not at all. Marner had the production levels during his pre-signing period to justify that contract. Elite at ES, elite on the PP, an excellent PKer, and good defensively - topped off by one of the best pre-2nd contract-signing seasons in the history of the cap era. Term included, Marner received the 10th highest value post-ELC contract in the cap era, and had roughly the 6th best production level in his career prior to signing, despite Babcock doing his best to limit his production relative to how other young stars have historically been treated in the same situations.

And he's the Sens smartest fan. Go figure.

 

[zeke]

I'm saying that Debrusk is a better offensive player, loves to hit and is a much better forechecker. He is bigger and faster than Kerfoot. I've seen enough of him that I think he is a better player and would have more of an impact playing on the 2nd line than Kerfoot would.

Debrusk averages about 1 hit every 2 game. He's a pest and a rat, not a physical presence.

And he's definitely not faster than Kerfoot. Kerfoot is also the better defensive player, and a guy who can play center.

as for offense:

Career:

DeBrusk: EV 12:58, 16gl/34pt pace, 1.86p/60 --- PP 2:07, 6gl/10pt pace, 3.59p/60
Kerfoot: EV 12:21, 12gl/30pt pace, 1.73p/60 --- PP 1:35, 3gl/10pt pace, 4.63p/60

Last 3 years:

DeBrusk: EV 13:05, 12gl/28pt pace, 1.50p/60 --- PP 2:00, 6gl/9pt pace, 3.16p/60
Kerfoot: EV 12:53, 12gl/37pt pace, 1.81p/60 --- PP 0:49, 1gl/3pt pace, 2.55p/60

Last 2 years:

DeBrusk: EV 12:39, 8gl/24pt pace, 1.30p/60 --- PP 1:24, 3gl/4pt pace, 2.17p/60
Kerfoot: EV 12:35, 12gl/35pt pace, 1.85p/60 --- PP 0:26, 0gl/2pt pace, 3.44p/60

 

[SprDaVE]

People only like DeBrusk around here for what he did to the Leafs in the last Bruins and Leafs playoff matchup... 3 years ago. I don't think anyones watched him since. They pretend he's this amazing forechecking tough guy that scores a lot but in reality he's just a pretty average winger that puts up average numbers and doesn't really get involved physically or on the forecheck.

He's been garbage for a few seasons now. It blows my mind people would rather have him over Kerfoot right now. Calling Kerfoot soft is quite frankly a complete joke.

 

[kb]

Leafs fans sure love to collect names! Too bad they are clueless on how they play.

 

[meefer]

didnt Vancouver also start to suck shortly after getting him? ...maybe there was a reason TB dumped him as cheap as they did (conditional 1st and junk) ...and now he's worth more? looks like a good player, but, we need a Holl replacement on the 2nd pairing, not more offense, with Mik coming back, and no spot for him either.

At what point do you look at his numbers and ask whether he 'looks' like a good player and recognize he is a good player. I'm not an expert, but my goodness, he certainly tracks like a valuable and contributing asset. As to Holl, while early days, I'd suggest that Liljegren might be a better option with Muzzin and Holl would be a fine partner with Sandin. This isn't to shaft Sandin, but to balance what we have. Just one person's opinion.

 

[SprDaVE]

I’ve thought about Gurianov as well, but I don’t see why the stars would move him right now.

One name that intrigues me in a depth fourth line role though is Tyler Motte out of Vancouver. Physical and feisty player that could be a good playoff addition in a depth role.

I've always like Motte as well. Not sure I'd trade a pick for him but I would definitely look to sign him this off-season. I think he can have Tyler Ennis levels of impact.

 

[showtime8]

Leafs fans sure love to collect names! Too bad they are clueless on how they play.

Who do you suggest oh wise one?

 

[meefer]

Any trade to get Miller will close the window off after next season. Any assets that could have filled in cheaply behind Miller (once he leaves UFA after next season) are being moved FOR Miller in most proposals.

Does this sound logical, intelligent, or sustainable, and does it match Dubas long term vision? Or is this just hfboards circle jerking about expensive names again that may or may not move the needle, but will blow up the prospect pool AND the best chance at restocking that pool?

Think think think.....please.

Gosh, I thought that we were in a win opportunity this year and next and that if we didn't give ourselves the best chance of doing so... Oh, that's right, why upgrade a team that if it missing anything, it is a top left wing option. How could Miller's profile possibly fit this timeframe? Age appropriate, better outcomes than anything we have at LW, a 2.6M cap hit for two years...when do we go for it? Today, would be my answer, when the core group (save Tavares) is in their prime and the support groups are also cost effective. What could we possibly be thinking when attempting to upgrade?

 

[mydnyte]

At what point do you look at his numbers and ask whether he 'looks' like a good player and recognize he is a good player. I'm not an expert, but my goodness, he certainly tracks like a valuable and contributing asset. As to Holl, while early days, I'd suggest that Liljegren might be a better option with Muzzin and Holl would be a fine partner with Sandin. This isn't to shaft Sandin, but to balance what we have. Just one person's opinion.

Holl usually has started great, and then gotten worse as the seasons wear and tear wore him down ...this season he started poorly, and i still expect the same drop off in play, so, that does not bode well.

...also, we need your up and coming 'cheap' skilled assets to manage the cap until we get some buffer, but, that isnt likely in the near future, so, tossing our futures for 1.5 years on the key player that TB discarded after being swept out of the playoffs in round one raises red flags for me.
Obviously, they saw something they didnt like, or figured his $$ would be better spent elsewhere, so, maybe we learn from the a cup winner (after they traded him) and not pick him up

 

[meefer]

Holl usually has started great, and then gotten worse as the seasons wear and tear wore him down ...this season he started poorly, and i still expect the same drop off in play, so, that does not bode well.

...also, we need your up and coming 'cheap' skilled assets to manage the cap until we get some buffer, but, that isnt likely in the near future, so, tossing our futures for 1.5 years on the key player that TB discarded after being swept out of the playoffs in round one raises red flags for me.
Obviously, they saw something they didnt like, or figured his $$ would be better spent elsewhere, so, maybe we learn from the a cup winner (after they traded him) and not pick him up

All fine and dandy in a static world of ability and contributions, but players evolve. Today's player isn't the same as yesterday's player, and will not be the same tomorrow. But, currently Miller is performing at a 1st line rate, and a better 1st line rate than anyone on the left side that this team has had in years. A first line of Miller/Matthews/Marner has to be considered as one of the most potent lines in the show. Really, to suggest otherwise is dense. Not to mention there would be a cap savings on a number of the trade proposals from which this discussion is based. I'm not saying this is a must, but I'll suggest that if it were possible I'd do it as quickly as it were accepted. As to the up and comers, with Miller I've now got 4 wingers competing for a return engagement with the team and 2 solid candidates to contribute to the future. Me, I'd take Robertson and Knies, opposite skill sets with differing sizes playing the same side.

 

[Magic Man]

To be honest Kerfoot had a couple off years offensively as well. He moved to a situation where he received a different role and couldn't keep his 40+ point pace, now being force fed top-6 minutes because of a lack of options he is producing at his regular clip again.

I'm guessing Debrusk has been pushed down the lineup and isn't getting prime scoring minutes like Kerfoot the past couple years. He likely thinks he can play that role somewhere else and return to form the same way Kerfoot has.

It's hard right now for Toronto to shake up what's working for a player that isn't playing well, but on paper that swap does make some sense. Debrusk brings a pest game and Kerfoot brings a defensive game. Similar scoring upside.

 

[Griffin76]

So I'm not for one or the other, in fact I don't want either, but people saying no to Kane because of off ice antics and bad locker room guy but Miller isn't? He's literally one of the 2 guys fighting and causing a rift in the Vancouver locker room right now. This team has insane chemistry right now. I don't think any major changes will happen. Maybe a couple of depth moves. Realistically what will Miller do? Help us win game 2 by a score of 4 to 1 instead of 3 to 1? And possibly be invisible for the rest of the playoffs? To me that's not worth a 1st, top prospect, roster player and possibly another pick or prospect.

 

[stickty111]

Kerfoot is a much better player then Debrusk and honestly it's not close

 

[stickty111]

Kerfoot and Debrusk are complete opposite types of players. If you want smallish, soft, defensive winger you take Kerfoot. If you want a bigger, stronger, grittier winger, you take Debrusk. If I can sell high on Kerfoot and buy low on Debrusk, sign me up.

This is completely false and others have already responded to you about it.

 

[stickty111]

With Mrazek very close and Mikheyev getting closer too, Dubas will have to do something real soon. Either by trade or waivers. They could just send Lilly down which would make 0 sense though.

 

[TheShape]

Kerfoot is a much better player then Debrusk and honestly it's not close

DeBrusk has had ample opportunity over the years in a top 6 role and proved to be unreliable. People have the 2018 version of DeBrusk in their minds and that’s inaccurate.

Kerfoot’s the better player, and this is coming from someone who doesn’t want Kerfoot in the top 6 ideally.

 

[jaric1862]

With Mrazek very close and Mikheyev getting closer too, Dubas will have to do something real soon. Either by trade or waivers. They could just send Lilly down which would make 0 sense though.

I think Dermott is good as gone

 

[LeafSteel]

McCann>Kerfoot>Debrusk.

 

[ACC1224]

McCann>Kerfoot>Debrusk.

Now you've done it.

 

[LeafSteel]

Now you've done it.

Too much to resist…….

 

[SprDaVE]

With Mrazek very close and Mikheyev getting closer too, Dubas will have to do something real soon. Either by trade or waivers. They could just send Lilly down which would make 0 sense though.

Yep. There hasn't been much smoke on the Holl/Dermott rumours from a few weeks ago.

It feels like Dermott might be the one on the way out with how much he's been sitting compared to Holl ... but we'll see.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I think Dermott is good as gone

I still think Engvall is a lot more likely. He would become our 13th forward and I don't see the Leafs sacrificing their defensive depth over him... short of a great return and a good 7th defenseman coming in. Even then, the only way we have enough cap space to make it all work with Engvall as an extra would be to move Holl.

If we can just find a team that will take Engvall's cap hit straight up, which shouldn't be that difficult, we can fit everyone in (including the 7 defensemen we have right now) without any trouble... And it is not like we are lacking in forward depth right now.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Yep. There hasn't been much smoke on the Holl/Dermott rumours from a few weeks ago.

It feels like Dermott might be the one on the way out with how much he's been sitting compared to Holl ... but we'll see.

Holl has played 17 games; Dermott has played 16 games. Liljegren has the least at 14.

I think Keefe doesn't really have a preference, outside of the fact that Holl is a more proven PKer... But I don't think that is enough.