GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART II

[zeke]

He asked for a trade. Wants a fresh start.

And why did he ask for a trade?

 

[Dekes For Days]

I thought nhl extensions are all based on comparisons?

Contracts are based on comparisons, but not comparisons with entirely different types of contracts. Post-ELC contracts use post-ELC contracts as comparables. UFA contracts use UFA contracts as comparables. And time of signing is pretty obviously the only time that matters when talking about contract valuation - you can't add value for future occurrences that weren't known at the time.

And not that it's at all relevant, but for the record, Kucherov did not have a cup, and all of Kane, Toews, Crosby, and Malkin received higher cap hit percentages than Marner on their UFA deals.

 

[Dragao6]

Contracts are based on comparisons, but not comparisons with entirely different types of contracts. Post-ELC contracts use post-ELC contracts as comparables. UFA contracts use UFA contracts as comparables. And time of signing is pretty obviously the only time that matters when talking about contract valuation - you can't add value for future occurrences that weren't known at the time.

And not that it's at all relevant, but for the record, Kucherov did not have a cup, and all of Kane, Toews, Crosby, and Malkin received higher cap hit percentages than Marner on their UFA deals.

I never said kucherov had a cup at the time but his production was unreal already
Signed deal summer before his mvp year

other guys got paid because of what they did and how they impact winning teams success, all I’m saying
For marner to get 11 M paralyzing what dubas can do with the roster after just 1 90 pts season and no playoff success, he pretty much disappeared in playoffs is very hard for me to make sense of,
Much like Suzuki’s deal and now all the contracts being signed now with kids that haven’t really done much yet

 

[kb]

Who do you suggest oh wise one?

Someone that won't deplete the team of major assets and then walk?

I've already said, if you are trading something like Kerfoot, Amirov, 1st, you don't do it for an expensive left winger who is at odd with his captain in Vancouver who will bolt after next season because the Leafs have no cap. You trade for a cost controlled asset who has more than 1+ season left.

If people can't see this, then you are correct in what you called me.

Edit: Holy hell my typing sucks. lol

 

[LeafSteel]

McCann 14 pts playing as the #1C with top PP time and is a -5 averaging 14:41/game including 2:09 PP/game, and short handed 0.01/game.
Kerfoot 14 pts, playing jack of all lines and no PP time and is a +10 averaging 14:58/game including 0:04 PP/game, and short handed 1.41/game.
Debrusk, dont really care

Pretty sure McCann’s line mates aren’t on the same level of our top 6 whom he would play with, and also pretty sure McCann is being matched against other teams top offensive and defensive pairings the majority of the time.

Here, there would be more opportunity to play with more talented players who he would compliment vs. Those he would be expected to carry in Seattle.

You are not comparing apples to apples here my friend….

 

[ToneDog]

And why did he ask for a trade?

After his request to be traded from the Boston Bruins became public Monday, Jake DeBrusk spoke to his teammates in an effort to clear the air.

“He talked to us this morning,” Taylor Hall said. “He just said ‘I love you guys. This is something in my career that I’m at a crossroads.’

“Jake has certainly made it known that he would prefer a new opportunity. We expect Jake to play well,” Sweeney said. “This comes down to the Boston Bruins making a hockey decision.

 

[zeke]

After his request to be traded from the Boston Bruins became public Monday, Jake DeBrusk spoke to his teammates in an effort to clear the air.

“He talked to us this morning,” Taylor Hall said. “He just said ‘I love you guys. This is something in my career that I’m at a crossroads.’

“Jake has certainly made it known that he would prefer a new opportunity. We expect Jake to play well,” Sweeney said. “This comes down to the Boston Bruins making a hockey decision.

Yes he was upset they had given up on giving him top-6 opportunity.

Why did they? They certainly need scoring depth pretty badly.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I never said kucherov had a cup at the time but his production was unreal already

Seems like that's what you were saying, but yes, Kucherov's deal, which has absolutely no relevance to Marner's contract, was one of the best contract signings in the cap era.

For marner to get 11 M paralyzing what dubas can do with the roster

Marner did not paralyze what Dubas can do with the roster. Dubas has done great things with the roster since Marner's signing, and Marner himself is a massive part of why we are such a good team. His contract was consistent with recent and historical post-ELC contracts.

Much like Suzuki’s deal and now all the contracts being signed now with kids that haven’t really done much yet

Marner's contract is nothing like the Suzuki or Hughes deals. Marner had actually earned his, and actually shown production levels that justified it.

 

[ACC1224]

After his request to be traded from the Boston Bruins became public Monday, Jake DeBrusk spoke to his teammates in an effort to clear the air.

“He talked to us this morning,” Taylor Hall said. “He just said ‘I love you guys. This is something in my career that I’m at a crossroads.’

“Jake has certainly made it known that he would prefer a new opportunity. We expect Jake to play well,” Sweeney said. “This comes down to the Boston Bruins making a hockey decision.

Only bad players that no one could possibly want get traded. Unless they're traded here obviously.

 

[showtime8]

Someone that won't deplete the team of major assets and then walk?

I've already said, if you are trading something like Kerfoot, Amirov, 1st, you don't do it for an expensive left winger who is at odd with his captain in Vancouver who will bolt after next season because the Leafs have no cap. You trade for a cost controlled asset who has more than 1+ season left.

If people can't see this, then you are correct in what you called me.

Edit: Holy hell my typing sucks. lol

Who would fit that bill then? You're going to have to find a team that is likely not going to contend this year, that has a top 6 winger on a reasonable contract and you're hoping to get that beyond 2 years? From that criteria, those names include, Tyler Toffoli, Radek Faksa, Travis Konecny, Viktor Arvidsson, Kevin Labanc, and Oliver Bjorkstrand. Is there someone else that you can think of and is there anyone on that list that you would pay that price to get?

 

[SprDaVE]

I tried to look at capfriendly for targets, but I wonder if the Leafs could try to get another Clifford-esque acquisition but for a center. Someone that is expensive for the AHL and might want a fresh start or something. I think the Marlies and the depth could use someone in between the NHL and the AHL.

It'll be VERY good for Abramov and SDA to get top AHL minutes though for sure.

 

[Dragao6]

Seems like that's what you were saying, but yes, Kucherov's deal, which has absolutely no relevance to Marner's contract, was one of the best contract signings in the cap era.

Marner did not paralyze what Dubas can do with the roster. Dubas has done great things with the roster since Marner's signing, and Marner himself is a massive part of why we are such a good team. His contract was consistent with recent and historical post-ELC contracts.

Marner's contract is nothing like the Suzuki or Hughes deals. Marner had actually earned his, and actually shown production levels that justified it.

Well we def see things completely different and that’s ok
Pens and Chicago’s guys that won cups have lower contracts then marner, that’s who I was referring too

And how does kucherov not have any comparable store marner? Just because Marners came out of elc to become the highest paid player in that position?? Lol they play the same position with Kucherov having way more success
Dubas scrambling to only be able to sign old guys and free agents to league minimum salaries is kinda paralyzing yeah
They lose form a again and the criticism to marner specially returns hard…and by the way I’m a big marner fan, not his contract but of him as a player

he got the contract only based on 1 90 pts season, same as Suzuki only having a play off run for his contract, Hughes what has he done? Peterson?
Consistant is the biggest form for me to evaluate quality

 

[LaPlante94]

Who would fit that bill then? You're going to have to find a team that is likely not going to contend this year, that has a top 6 winger on a reasonable contract and you're hoping to get that beyond 2 years? From that criteria, those names include, Tyler Toffoli, Radek Faksa, Travis Konecny, Viktor Arvidsson, Kevin Labanc, and Oliver Bjorkstrand. Is there someone else that you can think of and is there anyone on that list that you would pay that price to get?

He's not signed beyond this season but if he'd agree to a deal similar to his current one I'd say Forsberg is the perfect target. Still young, 2 way player who plays PP and PK and can play anywhere in the lineup minus C.

 

[zeke]

Who would fit that bill then?

Good news is that it seems like we'd be shopping for a luxury item, not a necessity item, so we can be very choosy.

 

[LaPlante94]

Well we def see things completely different and that’s ok
Pens and Chicago’s guys that won cups have lower contracts then marner, that’s who I was referring too

And how does kucherov not have any comparable store marner? Just because Marners came out of elc to become the highest paid player in that position?? Lol they play the same position with Kucherov having way more success
Dubas scrambling to only be able to sign old guys and free agents to league minimum salaries is kinda paralyzing yeah
They lose form a again and the criticism to marner specially returns hard…and by the way I’m a big marner fan, not his contract but of him as a player

he got the contract only based on 1 90 pts season, same as Suzuki only having a play off run for his contract, Hughes what has he done? Peterson?
Consistant is the biggest form for me to evaluate quality

I have spoken out about the Marner contract many times but I'd say Covid is more to blame for paralyzing our cap atm. Cap was supposed to go up quite a bit I believe before Covid which would've gave us extra cap space to make moves and that got delayed because it stayed put the last 2 seasons. I know it's going up by 1 million for next season and then it'll possibly keep going up by 1 million each season if I remember correctly. Right now Campbell is our main priority most likely and Kessels 1.2 mil comes off the books finally.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Pens and Chicago’s guys that won cups have lower contracts then marner, that’s who I was referring too

They don't though. Not that it matters, because those contracts have no relevance to Marner's post-ELC contract anyway, but they all signed for higher cap hit percentages. They're only lower in raw cap hit because they signed years ago under a lower cap.

And how does kucherov not have any comparable store marner?

As already discussed, UFA contracts and post-ELC contracts are not comparables for each other.

Just because Marners came out of elc to become the highest paid player in that position??

He actually received the 6th highest value post-ELC winger contract in the cap era, while being the 2nd best winger in the cap era through his pre-signing career.

Dubas scrambling to only be able to sign old guys and free agents to league minimum salaries is kinda paralyzing yeah

We signed multiple players to contracts higher than league minimum, and depth players getting depth salaries is not paralyzing. It's how good GMs operate. Dubas has been able to improve and assemble an amazing team post-signing, and Marner is a big part of why we are so good.

he got the contract only based on 1 90 pts season

He got the contract based on his production levels over a 3 year period, that placed him at around his current contract relative to recent and historical post-ELC comparables - topped off by one of the best pre-2nd-contract-seasons in the entire cap era. Same can't be said for the likes of Hughes.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Cap was supposed to go up quite a bit I believe before Covid which would've gave us extra cap space to make moves and that got delayed because it stayed put the last 2 seasons.

Yes, we'd likely be at an ~88m cap this year without Covid.

 

[TheShape]

Some of the same people on this board were shitting on Bennett last year. He proved them wrong and the same might be the same for Debrusk. Whether Kerfoot is better or not, it comes down to whether you want to add what Debrusk brings and at what price. IMO Debrusk or Debrusk+ for Kerfoot is something I'd be interested in.

Bennett's cap hit was next to nothing though, Debrusk is just too rich on the cap. I don't see Boston trading him within division unless it's an overpay and there are too many question marks surrounding the player to warrant a high price.

Debrusk is a guy we should pursue only if he isn't qualified similar to Ritchie.

 

[Dragao6]

They don't though. Not that it matters, because those contracts have no relevance to Marner's post-ELC contract anyway, but they all signed for higher cap hit percentages. They're only lower in raw cap hit because they signed years ago under a lower cap.

As already discussed, UFA contracts and post-ELC contracts are not comparables for each other.

He actually received the 6th highest value post-ELC winger contract in the cap era, while being the 2nd best winger in the cap era through his pre-signing career.

We signed multiple players to contracts higher than league minimum, and depth players getting depth salaries is not paralyzing. It's how good GMs operate. Dubas has been able to improve and assemble an amazing team post-signing, and Marner is a big part of why we are so good.

He got the contract based on his production levels over a 3 year period, that placed him at around his current contract relative to recent and historical post-ELC comparables - topped off by one of the best pre-2nd-contract-seasons in the entire cap era. Same can't be said for the likes of Hughes.

ok lol let’s just hope this run/form continues and they show up in the playoffs

 

[Dragao6]

I have spoken out about the Marner contract many times but I'd say Covid is more to blame for paralyzing our cap atm. Cap was supposed to go up quite a bit I believe before Covid which would've gave us extra cap space to make moves and that got delayed because it stayed put the last 2 seasons. I know it's going up by 1 million for next season and then it'll possibly keep going up by 1 million each season if I remember correctly. Right now Campbell is our main priority most likely and Kessels 1.2 mil comes off the books finally.

Is it guaranteed it’s only going up by 1M?
I mean fans back in, Seattle coming in…do they not revisit this before the end of season??

hoping

 

[Dekes For Days]

Is it guaranteed it’s only going up by 1M?
I mean fans back in, Seattle coming in…do they not revisit this before the end of season??

I believe it's set to be 1m per season for the next few years. Revenue is coming in again, and new sources of revenue have been added, but because of Covid, there's something like a 1 billion dollar discrepancy to be paid off before we see significant cap increases again.

 

[LaPlante94]

Is it guaranteed it’s only going up by 1M?
I mean fans back in, Seattle coming in…do they not revisit this before the end of season??

hoping

Daly told teams to prepare for the cap to go up by 1 million. Read something just recently to see if I was wrong and I read it's projected to go up by 1 mil each season until 25/26 season which would make the cap 85.5 million and then the 26/27 season it takes a big jump up to 91.4 million. Apparently the players and owners split the revenue 50/50 in the CBA so because of the shortened seasons and the playoffs played in a bubble the players owe the owners 1 billion and that won't be paid off until 25/26. I guess that big jump in the cap is good for us because I think that's when Matthews and them are due for their next contract.

Again if this isn't true I apologize, just going off what I read today.

 

[LeafChief]

I love seeing the one poster post his condescending drivel looking for a reaction and no one responds.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Kerfoot and Debrusk are complete opposite types of players. If you want smallish, soft, defensive winger you take Kerfoot. If you want a bigger, stronger, grittier winger, you take Debrusk. If I can sell high on Kerfoot and buy low on Debrusk, sign me up.

DeBrusk is a spoiled rat. He plays a more limited position and would not be able to play across the lineup and up and down it like Kerfoot does (and very well) here. No thanks to DeBrusk.

Also FWIW they both record around the same number of hits per game. I don't see "bigger, stronger, gritter" from jakey debrusk.

 

[kb]

Good news is that it seems like we'd be shopping for a luxury item, not a necessity item, so we can be very choosy.

Exactly. It seems when one person names a player, suddenly 50 appear out of the woodwork going "YAYAYAYA!!" with trades whether they make sense or not, whether it's feasible or not, or whether it's just a plain overpayment. And usually the cap implications going forward is rarely ever thought of or mentioned. And when one does mention that a ludicrous idea is a ludicrous idea for those reasons - people get offended.

I get it. I get the excitement. I do it. But the next 2 thoughts after thinking of a player is to think of the cap ramifications and situational needs before posting trades where the Leafs dump seriously prime assets.

I mean....I saw a proposal of Kerfoot, Holl, Amirov, 1st and others almost as bad. These are the correct definitions of "unprecedented overpayments".

With the departure of Semyonov, I think that the immediate need for this team is a bottom 6 C. Not a top-6 LW.