GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART II

[SprDaVE]

Holl has played 17 games; Dermott has played 16 games. Liljegren has the least at 14.

I think Keefe doesn't really have a preference, outside of the fact that Holl is a more proven PKer... But I don't think that is enough.

That's total. Holl hasn't left the roster since he sat out for a bit and he's been pretty solid to me. The Leafs are something like 8 or 9 and 1 since he's been back in the roster permanently.

Holl is 100% a better fit for what we need. I prefer Dermott as well but we have to take into account roles.

Dermott is always going to struggle getting into the lineup because he's not better on the right and the LD depth is very strong. Might as well trade him while he has some form of value.

 

[ToneDog]

This is completely false and others have already responded to you about it.

What part is "completely" false ?? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to keep Kerfoot and acquire Debrusk but the cap won't allow it. Once again, if you prefer what Kerfoot brings fine if you like what Debrusk offers why not go for it if he is going below market value ?? Seems to me there are about 8-10 teams that are interested.

 

[ToneDog]

DeBrusk has had ample opportunity over the years in a top 6 role and proved to be unreliable. People have the 2018 version of DeBrusk in their minds and that’s inaccurate.

Kerfoot’s the better player, and this is coming from someone who doesn’t want Kerfoot in the top 6 ideally.

Some of the same people on this board were shitting on Bennett last year. He proved them wrong and the same might be the same for Debrusk. Whether Kerfoot is better or not, it comes down to whether you want to add what Debrusk brings and at what price. IMO Debrusk or Debrusk+ for Kerfoot is something I'd be interested in.

 

[ACC1224]

Some of the same people on this board were shitting on Bennett last year. He proved them wrong and the same might be the same for Debrusk. Whether Kerfoot is better or not, it comes down to whether you want to add what Debrusk brings and at what price. IMO Debrusk or Debrusk+ for Kerfoot is something I'd be interested in.

I can't believe so many have followed DeBrusk so closely since the playoffs a few years ago.

 

[ToneDog]

Yes if you prefer a selfish one-way rat that can't produce for a team dying for depth scoring over a team-first defense-first Swiss army knife with better production then sure, choose debrusk.

Sounds like you are about as high on Debrusk as you were on Bennett. Let's see how the Debrusk saga plays out and see if you are wrong once again.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Id rather trade Mikheyev and keep the D depth with Holl and Dermott personally.

Mikheyev did ask for a trade and I’m concerned about his wrist after that injury.

 

[Dragao6]

Because they signed their contracts before winning league MVP titles, which means it has no relevance to their contract and cannot be considered in any contract comparison. Not sure why you think player contracts are based on team accomplishments, but barely any high-end players in the cap era won a cup before they signed their post-ELC contract anyway.

Except he's not at all. Marner had the production levels during his pre-signing period to justify that contract. Elite at ES, elite on the PP, an excellent PKer, and good defensively - topped off by one of the best pre-2nd contract-signing seasons in the history of the cap era. Term included, Marner received the 10th highest value post-ELC contract in the cap era, and had roughly the 6th best production level in his career prior to signing, despite Babcock doing his best to limit his production relative to how other young stars have historically been treated in the same situations.

u know why contracts are based on team accomplishements because players are signed to help team win…playoffs, cups
I believe the Blackhawk boys had 2 Stanley cup rings when they signed their deals
Penguins boys had a ring also I believe

U must be Dubas lol

 

[SeaOfBlue]

That's total. Holl hasn't left the roster since he sat out for a bit and he's been pretty solid to me. The Leafs are something like 8 or 9 and 1 since he's been back in the roster permanently.

Holl is 100% a better fit for what we need. I prefer Dermott as well but we have to take into account roles.

Dermott is always going to struggle getting into the lineup because he's not better on the right and the LD depth is very strong. Might as well trade him while he has some form of value.

They were 4-1 with him out of the lineup too.

Holl has been playing better with Muzzin as of late, but at this point, I don't think the Leafs are ready to commit to anything on defense... And they don't need to. Dermott has played well with Sandin and with Liljegren. Liljegren has played well with Muzzin. Holl hasn't really played well with anyone.

Moving Dermott doesn't solve our cap space issues anyways, unless we don't want 7D or we want to also waive/trade Engvall or Simmonds... But at that point, trading Engvall alone lets us keep all of our defensemen. Unless another team makes it worth our while and we can acquire a new 7th defenseman who is fairly good, I doubt we move any of our defensemen.

 

[SprDaVE]

They were 4-1 with him out of the lineup too.

Holl has been playing better with Muzzin as of late, but at this point, I don't think the Leafs are ready to commit to anything on defense... And they don't need to. Dermott has played well with Sandin and with Liljegren. Liljegren has played well with Muzzin. Holl hasn't really played well with anyone.

Moving Dermott doesn't solve our cap space issues anyways, unless we don't want 7D or we want to also waive/trade Engvall or Simmonds... But at that point, trading Engvall alone lets us keep all of our defensemen. Unless another team makes it worth our while and we can acquire a new 7th defenseman who is fairly good, I doubt we move any of our defensemen.

Moving Dermott does solve cap issues. It creates a wiggle room we don't currently have to carry an extra min league player like Anderson or Semyonov that otherwise we can't without that move, we have to trade/waive someone like Engvall or send down Liljegren.

It also will likely give the Leafs probably a mid-round pick or a prospect that could be useful down the line.

 

[Dekes For Days]

u know why contracts are based on team accomplishements

I know that they aren't, and it should be pretty obvious to everybody else too. Players are paid for what they do individually to contribute to the quality of a team, but they are not paid for team accomplishments.

I believe the Blackhawk boys had 2 Stanley cup rings when they signed their deals
Penguins boys had a ring also I believe

None of Kane, Toews, Crosby, or Malkin had won a cup at time of signing their post-ELC contracts.

 

[Buds17]

They were 4-1 with him out of the lineup too.

Holl has been playing better with Muzzin as of late, but at this point, I don't think the Leafs are ready to commit to anything on defense... And they don't need to. Dermott has played well with Sandin and with Liljegren. Liljegren has played well with Muzzin. Holl hasn't really played well with anyone.

Moving Dermott doesn't solve our cap space issues anyways, unless we don't want 7D or we want to also waive/trade Engvall or Simmonds... But at that point, trading Engvall alone lets us keep all of our defensemen. Unless another team makes it worth our while and we can acquire a new 7th defenseman who is fairly good, I doubt we move any of our defensemen.

Dermott counts for more against the cap than Engvall does. Dropping a blueliner in any fashion obviously doesn't do much to create a spot in the lineup for Mikheyev though.

 

[ACC1224]

Leafs have cap issues?

 

[zeke]

McCann>Kerfoot>Debrusk.

Even Strength Paces

Kerfoot 14gls, 50pts
McCann 24gls, 43pts
Bennett 23gls, 36pts
DeBrusk 14gls, 27pts

 

[mydnyte]

McCann>Kerfoot>Debrusk.

McCann 14 pts playing as the #1C with top PP time and is a -5 averaging 14:41/game including 2:09 PP/game, and short handed 0.01/game.
Kerfoot 14 pts, playing jack of all lines and no PP time and is a +10 averaging 14:58/game including 0:04 PP/game, and short handed 1.41/game.
Debrusk, dont really care

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Moving Dermott does solve cap issues. It creates a wiggle room we don't currently have to carry an extra min league player like Anderson or Semyonov that otherwise we can't without that move, we have to waive someone like Engvall or send down Liljegren.

It also will likely give the Leafs probably a mid-round pick or a prospect that could be useful down the line.

They don't fit.

A league minimum player is 750k. So you would still need to waive/trade a forward to be able to have 7 defensemen.

We can use the emergency call-up if we need to, but the Leafs are not going to rely upon Rubins, Kral, Dahlstrom, Biega, Menell, etc. as 7th defensemen. So unless we can find a suitable 7th defenseman who has also cleared waivers this year, it doesn't really work because that guy needs to stay on the roster full time.

Or you can trade Engvall instead and only have 12 forwards on the roster, but you get to keep our 7 defensemen and can tap into Anderson, Semyonov, etc. as an emergency call up. The difference between Semyonov/Anderson and Engvall as a fill-in is much smaller than Dermott and the Marlies defensemen.

If you move Holl, however, we have enough cap to have that 7th defenseman on the roster full time and keep Engvall as a 13th forward.

So your choices are:
1) Move Dermott, but also waive/trade Engvall/Simmonds/Mikheyev and acquire a 7th defenseman;
2) Waive/trade a forward like Mikheyev, Simmonds, or Engvall, but keep the defense;
3) Move Holl, and keep the forwards while also acquiring a new 7th.

Out of the three, Option 1 makes the least sense because you are still having to do Option 2. It only makes sense if we get a really good deal for Dermott. I still think Option 2, most likely involving Engvall, makes the most sense.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Even Strength Paces

Kerfoot 14gls, 50pts
McCann 24gls, 43pts
Bennett 23gls, 36pts
DeBrusk 14gls, 27pts

McCann also has a ridiculously unsustainable 29.4 shooting percentage right now, whereas Kerfoot is more or less in line with his Leafs' career average. As soon as that shooting percentage drops, McCann won't be looking too hot.

 

[Dragao6]

I know that they aren't, and it should be pretty obvious to everybody else too. Players are paid for what they do individually to contribute to the quality of a team, but they are not paid for team accomplishments.

None of Kane, Toews, Crosby, or Malkin had won a cup at time of signing their post-ELC contracts.

The contracts they are on are pre cups so they got awarded for their play resulting in cups, regular season and playoffs
History of production at any phase of the season, they didn’t get big deals based on their projection

Kucherov got paid the year he won the mvp but his numbers before that we’re also ridiculous
100+ points but he’s a regular 40 goals scorer
If players aren’t scoring marner isn’t getting all his assists because it’s often sad watching him trying to actually score but yeah he’s a good pk killer, better be for 11 mil per lol.
Marners playoffs aren’t even close to his contract but yeah he bangs away at regular season assists, I’m sure leafs fans care more about playoffs then regular season why many once wanted his head but they winning for now so all is quiet haha

 

[ACC1224]

They don't fit.

View attachment 485985

A league minimum player is 750k. So you would still need to waive/trade a forward to be able to have 7 defensemen.

We can use the emergency call-up if we need to, but the Leafs are not going to rely upon Rubins, Kral, Dahlstrom, Biega, Menell, etc. as 7th defensemen. So unless we can find a suitable 7th defenseman who has also cleared waivers this year, it doesn't really work because that guy needs to stay on the roster full time.

Or you can trade Engvall instead and only have 12 forwards on the roster, but you get to keep our 7 defensemen and can tap into Anderson, Semyonov, etc. as an emergency call up. The difference between Semyonov/Anderson and Engvall as a fill-in is much smaller than Dermott and the Marlies defensemen.

If you move Holl, however, we have enough cap to have that 7th defenseman on the roster full time and keep Engvall as a 13th forward.

So your choices are:
1) Move Dermott, but also waive/trade Engvall/Simmonds/Mikheyev and acquire a 7th defenseman;
2) Waive/trade a forward like Mikheyev, Simmonds, or Engvall, but keep the defense;
3) Move Holl, and keep the forwards while also acquiring a new 7th.

Out of the three, Option 1 makes the least sense because you are still having to do Option 2. It only makes sense if we get a really good deal for Dermott. I still think Option 2, most likely involving Engvall, makes the most sense.

To the bolded, not a chance that happens.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The contracts they are on are pre cups so they got awarded for their play resulting in cups, regular season and playoffs.

....What? None of those players had won a cup. Their unknown future team success had no impact on the contracts they got. As forwards, they got post-ELC contracts based primarily on their production levels through their career to the time of signing, and Marner's post-ELC contract fits in perfectly fine with their post-ELC contracts by the same measures, just like it does with pretty much all high-end post-ELC contracts signed in the entire cap era.

That's not at all similar to somebody like Hughes, who actually did get a contract that seems to be entirely based on (optimistic) projections of underlying metrics eventually turning into actual production.

Kucherov got paid the year he won the mvp

Kucherov signed the year before and had not won MVP at time of signing his contract; a contract which doesn't have any relevance to Marner's anyway, since one was a post-ELC contract and one was not. They are not comparable.

 

[Leafs1991]

Leafs fans sure love to collect names! Too bad they are clueless on how they play.

Then why would it be reproted that more than half the league is interested in Debrusk? He's a top 6 forward and every team would love to have him.

 

[Dragao6]

....What? None of those players had won a cup. Their unknown future team success had no impact on the contracts they got. As forwards, they got post-ELC contracts based primarily on their production levels through their career to the time of signing, and Marner's post-ELC contract fits in perfectly fine with their post-ELC contracts by the same measures, just like it does with pretty much all high-end post-ELC contracts signed in the entire cap era.

That's not at all similar to somebody like Hughes, who actually did get a contract that seems to be entirely based on (optimistic) projections of underlying metrics eventually turning into actual production.

Kucherov signed the year before and had not won MVP at time of signing his contract; a contract which doesn't have any relevance to Marner's anyway, since one was a post-ELC contract and one was not. They are not comparable.

Bud

Toews, Kane sign eight-year deals with Blackhawks

Also believe penguins won the cup in 2009?

post ecl? You keep talking about comparisons at time of signing these contracts your gonna go back a decade? At the time marner signed this huge contract kucherov, Kane all wingers, other big boys making way less then 11M that won cups

I thought nhl extensions are all based on comparisons? Lol

 

[Gabriel426]

If the playoffs is starting in a month and trade deadline is today, I wish Dubas can add a right shot faceoff C who plays defence.

 

[stickty111]

Well thats too bad. I guess he saw no opportunites to move up

 

[zeke]

Then why would it be reproted that more than half the league is interested in Debrusk? He's a top 6 forward and every team would love to have him.

The Bruins are actively (desperately?) looking for top-6 forwards. Why wouldn't they use Debrusk?

 

[ToneDog]

The Bruins are actively (desperately?) looking for top-6 forwards. Why wouldn't they use Debrusk?

He asked for a trade. Wants a fresh start.