Trade and FA Rumours 2022/23 Part 2

[Buffdog]

Would any one trade perfetti for a 30 year old ufa goalie? If the answer is no, then think of what njd would say for a similar aged player that's lapped him in production

Depends. If I'm toronto or Edmonton, maybe I'd move a perfetti like asset if I felt my window was closing and I had one or two of the top 10 players in the world signed long term and was trying to win

But not if I'm buffalo or NJ just entering my window with a young core

 

[KingBogo]

So lets go back to 2015... Pavs had a good 2014-15 season and then sucked in the playoffs - just like Vanecek - we had a young team of budding stars who unlike NJD had just made the playoffs but were projected to cup contenders

Or 2016 Jets are prob better example... we're real contenders - Buff is your main guy - so a RHD prospect seems expendable (Nemec is behind Hamilton for five more years) - if we don't have Helle... Would you have traded Ehlers or JoMo - for say Ben Bishop or Tuuka Rask... I would have in a heartbeat

If Helle's asking for 7 years its not going to happen - everyone sees the drop off at 35 in all goalies... but 5 years of Helle probably gets you a Stanley Cup - and teams only need one

If 5 years gets you a cup then why care about the extra 2 years after that? They don’t take away the cup if the goalie who helped win it starts fading.

 

[Whileee]

I've argued that. The Jets need to get their goalie and let the Helle situation take care of itself. We can't get stuck holding the bag if it takes us forever to deal him and then find ourselves with nothing left on the market.

I also think that the trade for Helle includes 3 parties, like with PLD. If Hellebuyck holds out for a massive contract, he might not end up with a true contender. So he will have a say in the trade location and return.

For the Jets, they just need to get the best deal and realize that there will be critics, regardless. They decided to run with Hellebuyck last season, knowing his trade value would decline. Same with Scheifele. It's water under the bridge, even though some people will never include their value to the Jets last season in assessing the trade return.

 

[surixon]

Depends. If I'm toronto or Edmonton, maybe I'd move a perfetti like asset if I felt my window was closing and I had one or two of the top 10 players in the world signed long term and was trying to win

But not if I'm buffalo or NJ just entering my window with a young core

The issue is the those teams generally don't have Perfetti type assets. They have late 1sts, cap dumps and middling prospects.

 

[DRW204]

So lets go back to 2015... Pavs had a good 2014-15 season and then sucked in the playoffs - just like Vanecek - we had a young team of budding stars who unlike NJD had just made the playoffs but were projected to cup contenders

Or 2016 Jets are prob better example... we're real contenders - Buff is your main guy - so a RHD prospect seems expendable (Nemec is behind Hamilton for five more years) - if we don't have Helle... Would you have traded Ehlers or JoMo - for say Ben Bishop or Tuuka Rask... I would have in a heartbeat

If Helle's asking for 7 years its not going to happen - everyone sees the drop off at 35 in all goalies... but 5 years of Helle probably gets you a Stanley Cup - and teams only need one

Were either bishop or Rask 31 years old commanding ~12% of the cap?
When's the last time a lottery pick a year removed went for a ufa-1?

Im sure njd wants Helle, and would love to have him. But the idea of Mercer or Nemec is far fetched imo.

And you're probably the only sucker gm that would do that deal. Bishop went to LA at the tdl months later for cernak+budaj+conditional 7th.

 

[KingBogo]

Depends. If I'm toronto or Edmonton, maybe I'd move a perfetti like asset if I felt my window was closing and I had one or two of the top 10 players in the world signed long term and was trying to win

But not if I'm buffalo or NJ just entering my window with a young core

Delete

 

[10Ducky10]

I like this strategy. Two goalies, one stone. Or two goalies both stoned. Ah hell... I do like the strategy.

But seriously, I absolutely hate losing Helly. Get rid of the rest of them but would love to see Helly stay.

You only get a generational goalie with 3 Vezina nominations maybe what, once in a generation? So hard to find. If we're just re-tooling, a Vezina goalie is your starting point. But that bridge has already sailed and we're in for some troubled waters without him.

Helly was a joy to have here especially after having lived through Pierre Hamel, Doug Soetaert, Pokey and the Bandit, Rick Tabaracci, Al Montoya and of course Ondrej Pavelec. I wish him well but shudder at the prospect without him. We have been spoiled and a dose of goalie reality is going to be a mackeral across the chops next year. Games could get ugly if the loose Jets show up with no Helly in saviour mode.

I liked Montoya.

 

[Daximus]

I've argued that. The Jets need to get their goalie and let the Helle situation take care of itself. We can't get stuck holding the bag if it takes us forever to deal him and then find ourselves with nothing left on the market.

Yeah that's a smart move. Go all out in FA and try to sign someone and hopefully we can attract a good enough piece. The trouble is if you are someone like Hill on the open market and Winnipeg, Buffalo and New Jersey offer you a contract. Where are you going?

 

[surixon]

Were either bishop or Rask 31 years old commanding ~12% of the cap?
When's the last time a lottery pick a year removed went for a ufa-1?

Im sure njd wants Helle, and would love to have him. But the idea of Mercer or Nemec is far fetched imo.

And you're probably the only sucker gm that would do that deal. Bishop went to LA at the tdl months later for cernak+budaj+conditional 7th.

I think people don't understand how important cap space is these days. Look at all those useful players given away for free because they have large and lengthy contracts. Teams don't trade players they trade contracts now.

Philly couldn't even give away Sanheim because he's owed 50 million over 8 years and he's a good player.

You get your best bang for your buck on elc and second contracts. Those players are the most valuable pieces on a team because they are cost controlled.

 

[Buffdog]

The issue is the those teams generally don't have Perfetti type assets. They have late 1sts, cap dumps and middling prospects.

Yup, and if they do, they're young cost-controlled players who are contributing

I was always more bullish on the PLD return than than schief and helle

 

[surixon]

Yeah that's a smart move. Go all out in FA and try to sign someone and hopefully we can attract a good enough piece. The trouble is if you are someone like Hill on the open market and Winnipeg, Buffalo and New Jersey offer you a contract. Where are you going?

Good news is there are only so many starters jobs. I'd also be going after Hart myself. Age wise he fits the direction with Cole, Vilardi etc as a 2016 draft pick.

Yup, and if they do, they're young cost-controlled players who are contributing

I was always more bullish on the PLD return than than schief and helle

Yeah because you are buying through his prime. You are buying Helle and Mark's decline. Father time always wins in the end.

 

[Aggie204]

I’ve argued this a few times but the plan can’t be that we will trade Helly and Scheifele at the TDL. That just guarantee's another shit show season when more than anything we need stability and direction.

The shit show started a few seasons ago when we had the huge D turnover. I’ve been pro rebuild since last season. I understand why TSNE is against it, but I want to see it done.

 

[KingBogo]

The shit show started a few seasons ago when we had the huge D turnover. I’ve been pro rebuild since last season. I understand why TSNE is against it, but I want to see it done.

The organization needs to have a reset and say this is our team and then start on a path to stability. You can't do that if the talk all season is what is going to happen with our UFAs?

 

[Been around]

Sorry enjoying this lol

If I can attach it

 

[surixon]

The organization needs to have a reset and say this is our team and then start on a path to stability. You can't do that if the talk all season is what is going to happen with our UFAs?

It's also clear to me they want to transition the leadership group to JoMo and Lowry. To do that Mark and Blake need to be moved.

It's also clear by Chevy's comments he wants to transition the forwards to the younger guys like Perfetti and Vilardi. In the bottom 6 Kupari and Barron. He probably will deal Ehlers soon while looking to keep the youngest core forward left in Conner. He will then integrate the McGrarty's, Lamberts etc.

My main concen is that we don't have enough high end d prospects to support the transition.

I'd be targeting the best defensive assets we can get with Helle and Mark to support that group.

 

[Daximus]

Good news is there are only so many starters jobs. I'd also be going after Hart myself. Age wise he fits the direction with Cole, Vilardi etc as a 2016 draft pick.

Yeah I wonder what he would cost. Flyers seems like they are cleaning house so probably want picks and pects.

 

[Buffdog]

Could we take Sanheim's contract if Hart was the sweetener?

It's a monstrosity but I'd be curious if he can play thr right side. Demelo is gone after this year, then pionk and Schmidt the next.

 

[surixon]

Yeah I wonder what he would cost. Flyers seems like they are cleaning house so probably want picks and pects.

Maybe a 2nd a B prospect given the trade value of other players.

 

[KingBogo]

It's also clear to me they want to transition the leadership group to JoMo and Lowry. To do that Mark and Blake need to be moved.

It's also clear by Chevy's comments he wants to transition the forwards to the younger guys like Perfetti and Vilardi. In the bottom 6 Kupari and Barron. He probably will deal Ehlers soon while looking to keep the youngest core forward left in Conner. He will then integrate the McGrarty's, Lamberts etc.

My main concen is that we don't have enough high end d prospects to support the transition.

I'd be targeting the best defensive assets we can get with Helle and Mark to support that group.

Agreed at this point in time for the organization is to lean hard into change and build for the future. My fear is Chevy only takes a half way step now and next season is like last except the focus is do we keep the pending UFAs as self rentals as we approach the TDL on the bubble or do we trade them?

 

[Aggie204]

The organization needs to have a reset and say this is our team and then start on a path to stability. You can't do that if the talk all season is what is going to happen with our UFAs?

I agree, but Helle put himself in a corner stating he wanted to go to contender at the salary he probably deserves and refusing to sign an extension with us. Chevy always plays the slow hand, hence another gong show season. I don’t want it either. It’s frustrating.

Edit: I hope I’m wrong about the TDL.

 

[KingBogo]

I agree, but Helle put himself in a corner stating he wanted to go to contender at the salary he probably deserves and refusing to sign an extension with us. Chevy always plays the slow hand, hence another gong show season. I don’t want it either. It’s frustrating.

Edit: I hope I’m wrong about the TDL.

Helly only put himself in a corner by signing a couple years too long. At this point I don’t think he settles for less then what he wants unless he is forced to. At this time it is mostly Chevy’s problem.

 

[surixon]

Helly only put himself in a corner by signing a couple years too long. At this point I don’t think he settles for less then what he wants unless he is forced to. At this time it is mostly Chevy’s problem.

Chevy may just have to trade him as a one year rental and let Helle try his hand at FA.

 

[WolfHouse]

Were either bishop or Rask 31 years old commanding ~12% of the cap?
When's the last time a lottery pick a year removed went for a ufa-1?

Im sure njd wants Helle, and would love to have him. But the idea of Mercer or Nemec is far fetched imo.

And you're probably the only sucker gm that would do that deal. Bishop went to LA at the tdl months later for cernak+budaj+conditional 7th.

I used Rask and Bishop because they were around 28-29 at the time - and in retrospect had 5 years left of performing - they are direct comparable to Helle... and yes they had high cap hits

Besides, Helle's cap hit for this season is very doable for any team - if I'm NJD I just get him on the team and then sign like Meier... remember how Meier wanted 9.5-10m?

Let's say we're NJD fans and not Jet fans... you're team looked like a juggernaut (the way we felt in 2017-18) and lost in the playoffs directly because of goaltending... now your team looks stronger with Meier...

What goalie is going to put you over the top? 34 year old Frederick Anderson, 36 year old Ben Bishop? Boston isn't trading Swayman to you... Im trying to understand what big UFA goalie market everyone is talking about...

Helle looks far and beyond the best goalie available - I'd trade a top prospect for the chance at a cup

 

[Flair Hay]

I'd do either of them straight up for Helle

Well yeah I would too, but that's my point:

Mercer ain't happening, and Nemec sure as hell isnt

 

[Daximus]

Maybe a 2nd a B prospect given the trade value of other players.

Not sure what they are after but I'd do that kind of move if available. Makes trading Helle for a more well rounded package more tenable.

I used Rask and Bishop because they were around 28-29 at the time - and in retrospect had 5 years left of performing - they are direct comparable to Helle... and yes they had high cap hits

Besides, Helle's cap hit for this season is very doable for any team - if I'm NJD I just get him on the team and then sign like Meier... remember how Meier wanted 9.5-10m?

Let's say we're NJD fans and not Jet fans... you're team looked like a juggernaut (the way we felt in 2017-18) and lost in the playoffs directly because of goaltending... now your team looks stronger with Meier...

What goalie is going to put you over the top? 34 year old Frederick Anderson, 36 year old Ben Bishop? Boston isn't trading Swayman to you... Im trying to understand what big UFA goalie market everyone is talking about...

Helle looks far and beyond the best goalie available - I'd trade a top prospect for the chance at a cup

But do you swing for the fences using up available assets that can help get you there and grab Helle. Or do you just try your luck in FA and grab Hill, a goalie who actually has a cup ring? I'd imagine all 32 GMs would try for the later before circling back.