Speculation: "Toronto's forward lines look like Swiss cheese" - Jay Rosehill
- Thread starter Ianturnedbull
- Start date
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Notsince67
Papi and the Lamplighters
- Apr 27, 2018
- 16,376
- 11,467
Community
44 is Rielly good
We've been spoiled in regards to offensive talent in the Matthews era... From 2006-2016, we never had more than 2x 60pt scorers on the team including multiple years with no players hitting 60pts. To say our forward group this year is poor and "Swiss cheese" is ridiculous.
We have:
- By far the best goalscorer in the league
- Two elite wingers capable of putting up 100+ pts
- A 30-30+ 2nd line C
- Young scoring depth potential (Knies, Robertson, McMann, and potentially Cowan).
Does the forward group look a bit more suspect on paper than previous years? Sure. However, we also have our next wave of youth (Cowan, Robertson, and Minten in particular) trying to push for spots and our defense is better.
It's still top 10 in the league at least and if Cowan/Minten/Robertson don't look good this year then we can easily add a middle 6 forward at the TDL.
We have:
- By far the best goalscorer in the league
- Two elite wingers capable of putting up 100+ pts
- A 30-30+ 2nd line C
- Young scoring depth potential (Knies, Robertson, McMann, and potentially Cowan).
Does the forward group look a bit more suspect on paper than previous years? Sure. However, we also have our next wave of youth (Cowan, Robertson, and Minten in particular) trying to push for spots and our defense is better.
It's still top 10 in the league at least and if Cowan/Minten/Robertson don't look good this year then we can easily add a middle 6 forward at the TDL.
The LW spot after Knies is thin but aside from that I don’t think there will be any issues in the regular season. It will only take one young player to emerge to patch the left side.
The D is definitely better and I think you could argue the goaltending is better.
I mean I'll catch some games, but I have less expectations since Matthews rookie year, it isn't even close.
This season is a wash before it even starts.
TMLBlueandWhite
Go Leafs Go
- Feb 2, 2023
- 2,280
- 2,382
I wonder if the holes in the roster have anything to do with the Leafs well thought out cap structure.
A good rule of thumb is to not spend more on the top four wingers than the top four defensemen. The Leafs have $22.5M in two wingers alone. Their entire defense is at $22.9M.
Everyone knows the team is built wrong.
I despair over what could have been. The saddest thing is that everything turned out pretty much how detractors said it would. Aside from the idiot owner letting the idiot POHO hire another idiot GM.
Shanahan should have been fired along with his protege last year.
The four forward experiment has been a massive and costly boondoggle on the world's largest hockey stage. Now this pretender contender is entering it's ninth season. With the exact same holes in the roster that were there all those previous humiliating failures.
Should easily be eight cups in the next four years when the Matthews contract expires.
A good rule of thumb is to not spend more on the top four wingers than the top four defensemen. The Leafs have $22.5M in two wingers alone. Their entire defense is at $22.9M.
Everyone knows the team is built wrong.
I despair over what could have been. The saddest thing is that everything turned out pretty much how detractors said it would. Aside from the idiot owner letting the idiot POHO hire another idiot GM.
Shanahan should have been fired along with his protege last year.
The four forward experiment has been a massive and costly boondoggle on the world's largest hockey stage. Now this pretender contender is entering it's ninth season. With the exact same holes in the roster that were there all those previous humiliating failures.
Should easily be eight cups in the next four years when the Matthews contract expires.
So the forward group looks bad because they spent too much on forwards? Makes sense.
The difference is just Bertuzzi no? I don't think Rosehill has a clue honestly.
Ianturnedbull
Registered User
- Jun 11, 2022
- 6,443
- 5,955
I am going to look at TOR from a NO GUARANTEE HOCKEY lens.
No guarantee Minton/Cowan make the team.
No guarantee Minton/Cowan play heavy hockey in the playoffs.
No guarantee Robertson will be playing for TOR.
No guarantee Reaves comes to camp in shape. He might stumble like he did at the start of last season.
No guarantee Toronto will have a 3rd line C. Who is it? Domi, Kampf, or Abruzzese?
No guarantee Dewer is going to be more than what he already is.
Will McMann stay healthy? No guarantees.
There are plenty of questions and too many hopeful things.
This is Swiss cheese. If you're a cynical leafs fan you might call it cottage cheese.
I am going to look at TOR from a NO GUARANTEE HOCKEY lens.
No guarantee Minton/Cowan make the team.
No guarantee Minton/Cowan play heavy hockey in the playoffs.
No guarantee Robertson will be playing for TOR.
No guarantee Reaves comes to camp in shape. He might stumble like he did at the start of last season.
No guarantee Toronto will have a 3rd line C. Who is it? Domi, Kampf, or Abruzzese?
No guarantee Dewer is going to be more than what he already is.
Will McMann stay healthy? No guarantees.
There are plenty of questions and too many hopeful things.
This is Swiss cheese. If you're a cynical leafs fan you might call it cottage cheese.
All the same questions last year...
Bertuzzi - Matthews - Marner
Domi - Tavares - Nylander
Knies - Minten - Jarnkrok
Gregor - Kampf - Reaves
You can roll out the same lines except replace Bertuzzi with McMann and Gregor with Dewar...
Then you also have Holmberg who is better than Minten, and then a bunch of guys challenging for spots, who I hope push out Reaves and Dewar.
The forwards are essentially the same, they may even end up improving, Bertuzzi is not a big loss.
And yes, you listed a bunch of questions... every team has those and they all existed last year too.
ULF_55
Moderator
I'm looking forward to the changes.
I think it is going to be pretty gouda.
Knies-Matthews(54%)-marner
Holmberg-Domi(50%)-Nylander
McMann-Tavares(59%)-Grebyonkin
Dewar-Kampf(51%)-Jarnkrok
On Deck: Robertson, Reaves, Minten
Rielly-Tanev
McCabe-OEL (Note 1)
Benoit-Liljegren
Hakanpaa
Woll
Stolarz
Note
1. Not only did OEL step up in a big way for the Cats, the left-shooting rearguard played on the right side and didn’t skip a beat.
OEL was unhealthy while with the Canucks, 2 seasons foot injuries.
I think it is going to be pretty gouda.
Knies-Matthews(54%)-marner
Holmberg-Domi(50%)-Nylander
McMann-Tavares(59%)-Grebyonkin
Dewar-Kampf(51%)-Jarnkrok
On Deck: Robertson, Reaves, Minten
Rielly-Tanev
McCabe-OEL (Note 1)
Benoit-Liljegren
Hakanpaa
Woll
Stolarz
Note
1. Not only did OEL step up in a big way for the Cats, the left-shooting rearguard played on the right side and didn’t skip a beat.
OEL was unhealthy while with the Canucks, 2 seasons foot injuries.
Last edited:
notDatsyuk
Registered User
- Jul 20, 2018
- 11,982
- 10,153
No guarantee Matthews doesn't break his leg on the first day of camp.I am going to look at TOR from a NO GUARANTEE HOCKEY lens.
No guarantee Minton/Cowan make the team.
No guarantee Minton/Cowan play heavy hockey in the playoffs.
No guarantee Robertson will be playing for TOR.
No guarantee Reaves comes to camp in shape. He might stumble like he did at the start of last season.
No guarantee Toronto will have a 3rd line C. Who is it? Domi, Kampf, or Abruzzese?
No guarantee Dewer is going to be more than what he already is.
Will McMann stay healthy? No guarantees.
There are plenty of questions and too many hopeful things.
This is Swiss cheese. If you're a cynical leafs fan you might call it cottage cheese.
No guarantee Tavares doesn't suddenly become an 80 goal scorer.
No guarantees in this life.
Kuznetzov's contract has been terminated, he had a poor year in 2024 but had 55 points in 2023.
Team needs a top 6 winger, U think It's worth a conversation with his agent
Team needs a top 6 winger, U think It's worth a conversation with his agent
I am going to look at TOR from a NO GUARANTEE HOCKEY lens.
No guarantee Minton/Cowan make the team.
No guarantee Minton/Cowan play heavy hockey in the playoffs.
No guarantee Robertson will be playing for TOR.
No guarantee Reaves comes to camp in shape. He might stumble like he did at the start of last season.
No guarantee Toronto will have a 3rd line C. Who is it? Domi, Kampf, or Abruzzese?
No guarantee Dewer is going to be more than what he already is.
Will McMann stay healthy? No guarantees.
There are plenty of questions and too many hopeful things.
This is Swiss cheese. If you're a cynical leafs fan you might call it cottage cheese.
I guarantee Toronto will have a 3rd line center because they are required too.
Hellcat
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2022
- 3,339
- 3,079
I mean…are any of our forwards even Swiss?
No one? No one is giving this post any love.... y'all suck...
I was under the impression Carolina agreed to terminate his deal to allow Kuznetsov to return to the KHL. I could see there being some legal fallout if he turns around and signs with another NHL club.
He has no contract, I don't think they can stop him.
Even if they could they just freed up a bunch of cap space
Ianturnedbull
Registered User
- Jun 11, 2022
- 6,443
- 5,955
Last year's forward depth (especially in the playoffs) was ripe horseshit.
I am not even talking about Bertuzzi, or how Toronto will survive without him.
It's OK though. Treliving has all offseason up to the deadline to find some players who are a lot more proven.
I didn't read Rosehill's "Swiss Cheese" as: not going to make the playoffs this season.
our biggest issue was our D were terrible. I am hoping Treliving sticks to a plan this year and doesn't attempt to crosscheck the puck into the net again.
Ianturnedbull
Registered User
- Jun 11, 2022
- 6,443
- 5,955
Mmm...
Matthews, Nylander, and Woll all had head scratching no shows in the first round of the playoffs last year. You're right.
notDatsyuk
Registered User
- Jul 20, 2018
- 11,982
- 10,153
Gee - I thought they were the only three who DID show.
I'm always right, thanks for noticing.
trellaine201
Registered User
Jay was a great player. It’s too bad he isn’t running our team. He has so many accomplishments. Too many to name.
ULF_55
Moderator
Knies-Matthews-marner
Domi-Tavares-Nylander
McMann-Lindt-Holmberg
Dewar-Kampf-Jarnkrok
On Deck: Robertson, Reaves, Minten
Rielly-Tanev
McCabe-OEL
Benoit-Liljegren
Hakanpaa
Woll
Stolarz
- Sep 8, 2004
- 15,415
- 2,098
Goal scoring Expectations for a full season and a regular shift
50+ goal scorers: Matthews
40+ goal scorers: Nylander
30+ goal scorers: Tavares, Marner
20+ goal scorers: Knies, McMann, Robertson
10+ goal scorers: Domi, Jarnkrok, Holmberg
if Knies, McMann, Robertson play 15+ mins a night and the full season, 20+ should be reached.
I'm sorry, but, not many teams can stack up against this, even if you drop all the 20+ players to the 10-20 list.
50+ goal scorers: Matthews
40+ goal scorers: Nylander
30+ goal scorers: Tavares, Marner
20+ goal scorers: Knies, McMann, Robertson
10+ goal scorers: Domi, Jarnkrok, Holmberg
if Knies, McMann, Robertson play 15+ mins a night and the full season, 20+ should be reached.
I'm sorry, but, not many teams can stack up against this, even if you drop all the 20+ players to the 10-20 list.
