Speculation: "Toronto's forward lines look like Swiss cheese" - Jay Rosehill

[IPS]

Yeah he's definitely not wrong. But it's about all you can expect if it's a Core 4 + pawn shop squad cap composition. Expect more major scoring troubles come postseason time, it's been more than a few teams now that have exposed just how easy our group is to shut down offensively.

 

[Notsince67]

Rosehill seems like he's become a bit of an attention whore the last while.
If there is one way to get attention it's to say something negative about the Leafs.

He is a nobody click-baiter

 

[LeafGrief]

Toronto's forward group looks the same as it always does. The four guys, one or two promising youngsters, some speedy guy who looked great last year, a guy who we're pencilling in as Matthews' winger, then a whole bunch of 4th liners of varying degrees.

The reality is that the promising youngsters are about 50/50, the speedy guy usually regresses, and Matthews' new winger is going back to the third line 70% of the time. Knies, McMann, and Domi as a supporting cast looks very week, and while I believe very strongly in the player Knies will be some day, young power forwards still take a long time to develop. McMann is a player, but whether he's a consistent 20g threat is very much up in the air, and Domi is a middle sixer who is likely to disappoint if he plays the entire year with Matthews.

If we had a second layer of forwards, some more of those Domi-tier middle sixers, then these guys would all be great depth pieces to have. But when they're the second wave, things look bleak. I like our fourth line, but our top6 LW's are livin on a prayer, and our third line is ????

 

[The Iceman]

It's complete trash, sadly not even remotely invested this upcoming season.

Come-on, tell the truth.
FACT....you are somewhat invested if you still follow fan forums.

 

[ULF_55]

Leafs Morning Take Podcast

July 18th podcast 11:30 into the show

Knies Matthews Marner
Robertson Tavares Nylander
Cowen Domi Jarnkrok
McMann Kampf Reaves

Minton, Dewer, and Holmberg out

"Too many no name guys to do something special"

'The defense looks solid. The forward group looks like Swiss cheese to me".

I think I agree.

I agree and the biggest piece of Swiss cheese is on the 2nd. line there.

I don't think a 2 tool player should be on the 2nd. line.

 

[Warden of the North]

2nd in goals for last year.

 

[ULF_55]

2nd in goals for last year.

Losing 1/2 season Bertuzzi is really going to hurt them?

 

[mclaren55]

I agree and the biggest piece of Swiss cheese is on the 2nd. line there.

I don't think a 2 tool player should be on the 2nd. line.

I think Domi will be with Matthews to start, Knies will be 2nd LW, and Robertson will be given a shot on the 3rd line.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

Zero chance Leafs win the cup this year. Zero. Not 0.1.

Next big date for this team is July 1st 2025.

 

[dubplatepressure]

We're probably another year away from a more robust top-12 once the likes of our young prospects start being ready enough to contribute at an NHL level. Cowan, Greb, and Minten specifically. This year we are probably going to try to sign a couple of PTOs and depth players and see if they can't continue the same success they've had with them.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

It's a little insane not to be hoping Cowan can get some minutes. He has proven everything he needs to. He just needs a good camp and it isn't wishful thinking that he can make the roster. It would be a disappointment if he doesnt

I hope everything for every leaf. I want every player to do well for TOR.

In no way am I saying Cowan and Minton are not good prospects. I would rather a different situation then "OK make the team out of camp. Be successful. Now play heavy hockey in April."

We need better players, or we need an actual 3rd line. It can't be just wishful/hopeful.

 

[notDatsyuk]

If that's his idea of the best lineup, then I agree it looks bad.

I don't think Berube will go with those lines.

 

[notbias]

Having Tanev, Rielly, and McCabe in your top 4 is mediocre? I think you'll be in for a surprise. Also, OEL will be a nice addition to our bottom 6, and he will help improve the lack of scoring from our defense, which had to be addressed.

How did you come up with the goaltending being mediocre if Woll stays healthy? If he can stay healthy he is a bonafide #1 goalie. And I believe Stolarz will be a solid 1B goalie as well.

I understand the concern around goaltending.

They have 117 games started split between the two of them, and that is over 11 seasons, the most games started by Woll was 23 last season and by Stolarz, it was 24 last season.

The D is better than last year, and I am happy they have puck movers, but there are questions around Tanev and when he will start to look more his age as well as if OEL can be more than a bottom pairing D.

The forwards being worse is the weird one to me. We lost Bertuzzi, who cares?

Zero chance Leafs win the cup this year. Zero. Not 0.1.

Next big date for this team is July 1st 2025.

See you then, enjoy your break.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Rosehill seems like he's become a bit of an attention whore the last while.
If there is one way to get attention it's to say something negative about the Leafs.

Starting new threads every couple of days and constantly changing the thread titles isn't working for you?

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

He's right. Especially when the playoffs start and they start quaking in their boots. Connor Dewar will probably lead the team in playoff scoring.

 

[ACC1224]

He's right. Especially when the playoffs start and they start quaking in their boots. Connor Dewar will probably lead the team in playoff scoring.

When was the last time a lineup posted in July was the one that started the playoffs?

 

[notbias]

He's right. Especially when the playoffs start and they start quaking in their boots. Connor Dewar will probably lead the team in playoff scoring.

I am assuming it will be like every year and Marner or Matthews will lead the team in scoring and then everyone will complain that they didn't do enough and if only we had more people who can't score but can hit/punch people we would have won.

 

[ULF_55]

Too many question marks. He's not wrong.


Knies
Robertson
Minten
Cowen
McMann
Holmberg
Reaves
Grebyonkin
Dewar

Liljegren
Woll
Stolarz
Hakanpaa/Timmins
Benoit

That's a crazy long list. So many players that aren't exactly reliable, consistent and/or proven. Some will hit and others won't but that's no way of building a cup contender.

These are all question marks that could go pear-shaped. Will Knies take another step? Will the prospects make the team on merit or just get handed a spot?

Playoffs are a long way away but this is a weaker group. Too much reliance on a core that already disappears when it matters.

Question Marks:

• Minten
• Cowan
• Grebyonkin
• Timmins

Health Concerns:

• Woll
• Hakanpaa
• McMann

Known Limitations:

• Robertson
• Reaves

Known NHLers unknown upside:

• Holmberg
• Liljegren
• Stolarz
• Benoit

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Leafs Morning Take Podcast

July 18th podcast 11:30 into the show

Knies Matthews Marner
Robertson Tavares Nylander
Cowen Domi Jarnkrok
McMann Kampf Reaves

Minton, Dewer, and Holmberg out

"Too many no name guys to do something special"

'The defense looks solid. The forward group looks like Swiss cheese to me".

I think I agree.

I disagree, there are certainly some holes in it for sure, namely 3rd line center but the rest of it? I don't see it.

You still got Matthews and Tavares as your top 2 centers that's still a good top 2 even if Tavares Isn't what he was 5 years ago.

You got very strong wing depth in Marner, Nylander, Domi, Knies,, Jarnkrok, Robertson and Mcmann, Kampf is still a quality 4C, granted an overpaid one but still a good one.

Plus You have Minten and Cowan coming up.

There is a weak spot at 3rd spot at 3rd line center, that's not up for debate but beyond that I don't see the issue.

 

[ULF_55]

I hope everything for every leaf. I want every player to do well for TOR.

In no way am I saying Cowan and Minton are not good prospects. I would rather a different situation then "OK make the team out of camp. Be successful. Now play heavy hockey in April."

We need better players, or we need an actual 3rd line. It can't be just wishful/hopeful.

One has to be brave or shrivel and disappear.

Every player starts with zero experience in the NHL.

 

[ULF_55]

When was the last time a lineup posted in July was the one that started the playoffs?

Doesn't camp start next week?

My gawd we're gonna have to wait and see?

I expect very little change, but I also expect players get older every year, so on the incline and some on the decline, but that's just me?

 

[RunItBackAgain]

I understand the concern around goaltending.

They have 117 games started split between the two of them, and that is over 11 seasons, the most games started by Woll was 23 last season and by Stolarz, it was 24 last season.

The D is better than last year, and I am happy they have puck movers, but there are questions around Tanev and when he will start to look more his age as well as if OEL can be more than a bottom pairing D.

The forwards being worse is the weird one to me. We lost Bertuzzi, who cares?



See you then, enjoy your break.

I’m allowed to be a fan in any way I choose. This team isn’t holier than thou

 

[notbias]

I’m allowed to be a fan in any way I choose. This team isn’t holier than thou

Never said you couldn't, I just assumed with your amazing insight into how the season would play out that you weren't going to be tuning into an outcome you already knew... but if you want to waste your time, by all means, go for it.

 

[ULF_55]

I’m allowed to be a fan in any way I choose. This team isn’t holier than thou

We all are.

The team isn't holier than anything, but it is real not make believe.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Never said you couldn't, I just assumed with your amazing insight into how the season would play out that you weren't going to be tuning into an outcome you already knew... but if you want to waste your time, by all means, go for it.

Aren't you aware of what often happens when you make an ASS out of U and ME?

We all are.

The team isn't holier than anything, but it is real not make believe.

Until April, when it turns into a pumpkin.