Speculation: "Toronto's forward lines look like Swiss cheese" - Jay Rosehill

[ULF_55]

Possibly the weakest LW in hockey. Frig ...Knies is not a #1 LW on the Habs ...

Have you looked at the Habs LW?

And speaking of the Habs, they didn't buy-out Josh Anderson?

 

[egd27]

Other than Bertuzzi what’s different than last year?

Well according to a 4,000 post thread, Marner may have forgotten how to play hockey completely.

 

[ULF_55]

You could go with Matthews/JT all season and find regular season success. Perhaps we are trying to come up with a solution. Is it biased to say they have post-season failure?

We can unbiasedly state only 1 team ends the season a winner.

Tiers (tears) of failure, but Leafs seem to reside in Tier 2 with 7 other various teams, Tier 1 has 16 failures.

 

[ACC1224]

Looks like the thought of the day from the deep thinkers is if you don't think the lineup is 'swiss cheese' you think this team will win the cup.

I know people say dumb things for a reaction(see Marner thread) but at least put in a better effort than that.

 

[ULF_55]

I think you need to look closer

Carl Jarnkrok as 1G & 3 pts in 18 playoff games as a leaf

Kampf has 3G and 6 pts in 25 playoff games as a leaf

Robertson has 1G and 1 pt in 10 playoff games as a leaf

Holmberg has 0G and 0 pts in 7 playoff games as a leaf

McMann has never played the playoffs nad has some doubts if hes a 15-20G guy or a <10G guy

Marner and Nylander are 72 and 65 pt players in the playoffs so good low end 1st liners

Domi & Knies are good depth players but we saw they played good vs boston and we still lost in 7

Last 5 years, and if you want to have minimum games played they move up.

All forward 30 games;

 

[Gary Nylund]

We wish it turned into a pumpkin.

Pumpkins are useful, especially with turkey.

You're right, cupcake is probably a more appropriate term.

 

[ULF_55]

You're right, cupcake is probably a more appropriate term.

And with the Leafs you always have turkey.

 

[Racer88]

Well according to a 4,000 post thread, Marner may have forgotten how to play hockey completely.

Probably not forgotten but certainly gave up on playing hockey, especially in the playoffs this year

 

[RunItBackAgain]

Never said you couldn't, I just assumed with your amazing insight into how the season would play out that you weren't going to be tuning into an outcome you already knew... but if you want to waste your time, by all means, go for it.

Just because I know the outcome doesn’t mean I’m not going to watch. Everyone knew what happened at the end of lord of the rings and Harry Potter but somehow they managed to get viewers still. Stop being snarky or I’ll block you

 

[hamzarocks]

Last 5 years, and if you want to have minimum games played they move up.
View attachment 896998

All forward 30 games;

View attachment 896999

Matthews was top 3 in AAV i believe, after Mcdavid and Panarin

Marner was top 7 or 8

Tavares top 7 or 8

Nylander wasnt close and yeah he outplayed his previous deal at 7M. His current deal is 11.5M and the production need and expectation will now be Matt Tkachuk (last 2 playoffs), Mikko Rantanen, Nikita Kucherov

Matthews being ppg with 35 in 35 playing 5R1s and 1R2 isnt as impressive Aho or tkachuk on that list who had deeper runs vs better teams and Tkachuk even won a cup after making the finals last year.

These 3 need to be 3 of the top 6 in playoffs ppg for all players moving forward for the next 4 years with multiple deep runs (ECF ideally at minimum) to be worth anywhere near their money.

Also the depth above still sucks and cant provide any offensive value which will kills us when the core stinks again.

The core has had 2 good series where everyone played and produced strongly in their whole careers

2022 R1 vs Tampa
2023 R1 vs Tampa

2020 R1 vs CBJ --> MM and WN produced worse thab expected and JT under produced and underperformed

2021 R1 vs MTL --> MM and AM underproduced terribly, JT got injured, WN played amazing

2022 R1 vs TB --> all of the core played good

2023 R1 vs TB --> all of tbe core played good

2023 R2 vs FLA --> All of the core 4 underproduced and only WN looked liked he was generating and driving offense at a decent level for a 7M player not a 11.5M player

2024 R1 vs BOS --> All of the core 4 underproduced, MM and JT played like 3rd liners and were invisible and ineffiective (outside of PP for MM who generated a bit there). Nylander was bad games 4 and 5 but great game 6 and solid game 7. Matthews was bad games 1, 3 and 4 but good in great games 2 and good game 7

 

[jaric1862]

Honestly, they add one middle-6 center who can PK and their forward group is fine.

 

[Stringer Bell]

They'll be fine. They finished 2nd in the league in goals last year. Maybe they'll take a slight step back offensively, but the additions on D and what should be improved goaltending via the removal of Samsonov should more than make up for the loss of Bertuzzi up front. I do think they need a 3rd line Center though.

It's a better team on paper than last year's group in my opinion.

Oufff. I remember us saying similar things about the jays a couple off seasons ago…

 

[notDatsyuk]

It really depends on how the coach utilizes those assets, right?

If they won the Cup with:

Robertson-Matthews-marner
Knies-Domi-Nylander
Cowan-Tavares-Grebyonkin
McMann-Kampf-Jarnkrok

Would we care how much the 3rd. line cost?

Money is already spent.

Exactly. We are paying Tavares $11M to play, regardless of where he plays: play him where he is most effective, whether that's 1C or 4LW or 3rd pairing D.

(This applies to every player.)

I think too many posters (and Keefe) tend to base too many lineup decisions on salary.

 

[Hellcat]

Have you looked at the Habs LW?

And speaking of the Habs, they didn't buy-out Josh Anderson?

That is my point... Caulfield beats anyone on our LW.

edit - they have Cole as LW on some sites and RW on others, I dont watch enough of them to honestly know if he is a LW or RW. they got Slafkovsky listed as LW and I thought he was a C? At any rate our LW sucks ass. you could probably replace our 4 LW with the 4 LW from the Marlies and not see a huge drop off.

 

[crump]

Question marks. Sure. What team doesn’t have question marks.

Can McMann and Knies be 20 goal scorers. If they track like they did down the stretch? Yes.

If Robertson gets top six minutes and pp time can he score 20?, if he tracks like he did every time he was inserted back into the lineup, yes.

Losing only Bertuzzi is not significant enough that those guys can’t replace his offense.

Tavares on the last year before UFA means he will probably have a solid year hoping for a big retirement contract.

The one big hole (other than the one in Marners heart) is a bonafide 3rd line centre who can shutdown guys and also chip in offense.

 

[ULF_55]

That is my point... Caulfield beats anyone on our LW.

edit - they have Cole as LW on some sites and RW on others, I dont watch enough of them to honestly know if he is a LW or RW. they got Slafkovsky listed as LW and I thought he was a C? At any rate our LW sucks ass. you could probably replace our 4 LW with the 4 LW from the Marlies and not see a huge drop off.

You would think being out of the playoffs 5 out of the last 7 years would give them some top picks and players.

They can't be as bad as everyone claims right?

 

[Gallagbi]

I’m just glad the lineup doesn’t feature plugs like Jay Rosehill.

TBH we have plenty up front if our star players play up to their potential.

... We have Reavo

 

[ULF_55]

... We have Reavo

Reaves scored 4 goals for the Leafs ... 49 games.
Rosehill scored 5 for Leafs and Flyers combined ... 117 game career.

Just facts, not defending either one.

Not sure value of either one to the NHL at this point?

 

[ToDavid]

We lost Bertuzzi, who put it together by the end of the year but was dogshit for quite a bit of it…

Should get some growth from Knies, potentially Robertson if he stays, potentially adding a good young player in Cowen.

Feels like at worst we might take a small step back from… 2nd in league scoring, while improving defense and goaltending.

 

[Magic Man]

McMann, Knies, Robertson, Holmberg and Dewar are all pretty young. So, there could be some growth there.

Domi has some security and it's possible without Bertuzzi to compete with that he sees an increased role.

Cowan, Grebenkin and Minten are sniffing around the edges.

Could be good or bad. We will find out and reassess at the deadline.

 

[al secord]

"I wonder what Jay Rosehill thinks..."

 

[WTFMAN99]

3 big holes, provided goaltending holds up;

Middle 6 centre, ideally one that can pk
Top 6 LW
Top 4 RD

Rielly-Tanev
McCabe-X
OEL-Hakanpaa
Benoit

You don't want Benoit in the top 4 and Benoit-Hakanpaa on the 3rd pair wouldn't move the puck. Yes, I have zero faith in Liljegren.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Knies - Matthews - Marner
McMann - Domi - Nylander
Minten/Cowan - Tavares - Jarnkrok
Dewar - Kampf - Reaves

Rielly - Tanev
Benoit - McCabe
OEL - Liljegren​

 

[LeafEgo]

3 big holes, provided goaltending holds up;

Middle 6 centre, ideally one that can pk
Top 6 LW
Top 4 RD

Rielly-Tanev
McCabe-X
OEL-Hakanpaa
Benoit

You don't want Benoit in the top 4 and Benoit-Hakanpaa on the 3rd pair wouldn't move the puck. Yes, I have zero faith in Liljegren.

Don't think we need a top 6 LW, Dom-Mat-Nyl, Kni-JT-Mar is fine. Just need that 3C for the final touch. Unless Willy is playing center and JT moves down, then it would be a top 6 LW. So one or the other.

If Hak or Lily don't break through then we need a top 4RD. Ditto goaltending.

If JT is punctual with an LTIR stay, then we could be in on this year's Hanifin at the tdl, and able to sign next year.

 

[LeafEgo]

Knies - Matthews - Marner
McMann - Domi - Nylander
Minten/Cowan - Tavares - Jarnkrok
Dewar - Kampf - Reaves

Rielly - Tanev
Benoit - McCabe
OEL - Liljegren​

I'm big on trying Domi and Willy, but not sure if McMann can pick up the responsibilities against top competition. Maybe Jarn but he has gotten so bad at keeping up offensively I'm not sure he can even be a stretch top 6 option anymore.

Watching Matty with Mitch is painful. He's not that kind of goalscorer.