Toronto Maple Leafs are surprisingly underperforming

[eramosat]

as a non-Leaf fan living in Toronto, I find these times to be the most enjoyable of all. (Some) Leafs fans are ready to commit suicide, in October, after regularly stating all summer long "the regular season doesn't matter, we just have to endure it before we come to the real heart of it, the playoffs!". And all fans are checking their pulses...way better than anything I could ever watch on scripted TV.

and this is just another one of the many dramas long-suffering, but also sometimes insufferable, Leafs fans have gone through. yes, they're knowledgeable and passionate and worthy of success like all fanbases, but this particular era is unique in it's dual Hamlet-Much Ado About Nothing arc.

it's definitely great to be an outsider observing, rather than suffering thru the peaks and valleys. let's see if Keefe manages to survive yet another test.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

How are the Leafs trading Marner in-season? Contenders don't have the cap space to fit him in and pretenders probably don't want to take on almost $11 million if they're still in the rebuilding stage.

That seems more like something you'd do in the summer when navigating the salary cap is easier.

5 million

 

[Ducks in a row]

Thank you Maple Leafs for losing to the Ducks ending our big losing streak

 

[Divine]

Thank you Maple Leafs for losing to the Ducks ending our big losing streak

Selfish, at least you had a win. Kallgren is winless so far against the powerhouses of SJ, Arizona, and now Anaheim.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

So Marner is not a "franchise" player?

What does whether or not Marner is a franchise player have to do with what I said about the issues around trading him in-season?

 

[Bood12]

it wouldn't surprise me if the players are under performing as if they want Keefe gone, wouldn't surprise me if they know Trotz is in the wing and they want him as a coach

 

[tiburon12]

So Marner is not a "franchise" player?

No chance. Scoring a lot of points doesn't automatically make you a franchise player. There are plenty of example of guys who pile on the points but don't have those certain qualities that separate them from franchise-level players.

A few other examples of players I wouldn't consider "franchise" players despite being stars:
Gaudreau
Huberdeau
Connor
Zibanejad
Rantanen
Kucherov

the franchise tag should go to players who, among other things, represent these qualities:
- Are the face of the franchise on and off the ice, representing the ethos of the team positively
- Have a track record of leading by example on the ice and being the player the rest of the team relies on first
- Put team over self w/r/t contracts and awards
- Are the team's primary player on the ice, not a complementary player
- Put in the work to be the best and hold themselves accountable

Marner has demonstrated on and off the ice during his whole career that he doesn't have the qualities of a franchise player. That's why his contract is harder to swallow - 11m should be for "the guy", not "the 3rd guy". The Leafs bought a franchise player in Tavares and earned one in Matthews, and Marner has done nothing to prove he belongs in the same category as they do besides get points.

In other words, if you're slapping the franchise tag on Marner and trying to build around him alone, good luck.

 

[Pavels Dog]

it wouldn't surprise me if the players are under performing as if they want Keefe gone, wouldn't surprise me if they know Trotz is in the wing and they want him as a coach

Why would they want Keefe gone? Nothing about that group of players makes me think they're sitting around dreaming of a hard-ass defensive coach like Trotz.

I don't think it's all that complicated. They don't have the roster to win unless their top guys are playing like elite players.

 

[BB88]

Selfish, at least you had a win. Kallgren is winless so far against the powerhouses of SJ, Arizona, and now Anaheim.

Why does the best Gm in the World have a goalie like that on the roster?

 

[Chips]

Why does the best Gm in the World have a goalie like that on the roster?

Not agreeing or disagreeing with the best GM thing, but what should he have done for goaltending instead? People often criticize GM moves as if there’s just perfect moves laying around all the time. Things often have to work out pretty fortunate, good players worth investing in becoming available in free agency, or another team with a legit goalie is actually willing to part with him because their needs happen to be what you can spare


Long term big money for Campbell is super risky

Long term big money for Kuemper is super risky


Who has a really good goalie they want to move, and what can the leafs spare that people wouldn’t criticize as a major overpay to pry a goalie away?


Say they make one of the free agent deals, and it goes wrong. It’s way harder to trade without retaining a long term big money contract with years left. It’s more money to retain, it lasts on the books longer etc and in this cap environment some teams are just trying to buy time.


Murray has less time on his desk left and already has some retained. And hell maybe he ends up on LTIR. His acquisition w his contract is essentially punting, which sometimes sucks short term but might be better long term. Sammy might work out and is also on a manageable contract.


Can’t expect team to be built perfectly in no time, as 90% of teams never look perfect or near it

 

[nbwingsfan]

How is he far from the issue when the other goalie is putting up a .920 against better teams? The Leafs were the better team in every game he lost.

Yes but not very many of the goals have been noticeably bad and have been a mostly caused by hilarious turn overs by the D.

 

[nucks88]

They'll recover and be a good team

However this type of stuff and the media absolutely hammering the top talent isn't going to help the resign Matthews cause

Well Matthews strikes me as a bit of a frat boy so he probably is looking forward to playing for the University of Coyotes anyways...

 

[Haatley]

Pretty early to panic. All but one team in the conference is at .500 or better.

The Leafs are 4 wins and 6 losses. That's 2 games under....

 

[Lshap]

The Leafs are 4 wins and 6 losses. That's 2 games under....

Leafs are 4-4-2. That's .500.

 

[Tuggy]

 

[CupInSIX]

With all this talk about how awful they're playing, I looked up stats for Leafs players, and their top 4 forwards are either at a PPG or close.

I don't think their biggest problem is that their superstars aren't on pace for 60 goals or 100 points.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Leafs are 4-4-2. That's .500.

They're 4-6.

They have two more losses than wins.

They've earned 50% of the points available, thanks solely to the NHL's stubborn insistence on rewarding failure, but I'll never see a team with more losses than wins as a ".500" team.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Not agreeing or disagreeing with the best GM thing, but what should he have done for goaltending instead?

It's almost as if GMs should have the answer for that, not random message board posters.

But here's a few ideas:

- Create a more healthy cap structure on the team to allow for re-signing Andersen
- Same thing but re-sign Campbell instead
- Same thing but go after a FA goalie
- Same thing but trade a pick to get a goalie before they hit FA
- Hunt for goaltending depth among european FAs to not have to rely on Källgren
- Shore up the defense to put less pressure on the goalies
- Shake up the core with a trade to improve defense+goaltending

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Why would they want Keefe gone? Nothing about that group of players makes me think they're sitting around dreaming of a hard-ass defensive coach like Trotz.

I don't think it's all that complicated. They don't have the roster to win unless their top guys are playing like elite players.

I agree... The players on the Leafs would DESPISE a coach like Trotz... They 100% would not react well to the way he coaches.

Dubas needs to be held accountable for the product he has put on the ice. The defense/goalie situation he decided to roll with this year was obviously going to be real bad and it turned out to be even worse than what people probably expected... And for whatever reason the star players are playing like they don't care anymore.

A coach and GM firing I feel needs to be done. Even if the team turns things around, this current roster is not nearly a Stanley Cup contending team. Yes they could turn things around and get in the playoffs with this group BUT it definately won't be a long playoff run.. Massive changes need to be done

 

[Lshap]

They're 4-6.

They have two more losses than wins.

They've earned 50% of the points available, thanks solely to the NHL's stubborn insistence on rewarding failure, but I'll never see a team with more losses than wins as a ".500" team.

The NHL doesn't recognize your reinterpretation of their standings, and this thread isn't the place to discuss it.

 

[Dr Pepper]

The NHL doesn't recognize your reinterpretation of their standings, and this thread isn't the place to discuss it.

I know, it's pretty frustrating. Maybe they'll figure it out eventually though.

 

[RC51]

omg is toronto going all in for bedard

 

[Schennanigans]

This team is awful right now.

 

[CupInSIX]

Has Ferguson been that bad that the Leafs have to continue going with Kaligren? I would have figured he'd seize this opportunity to get to the NHL.

 

[Fatass]

Lol..I admire a man who admits he enjoys people suffering. That's typically an indicator of certain pathologies...We all hope you get the help you need.

Lol 20 pages gloating that the Leafs are starting like last season. HF gold.

Are Leaf fans “suffering”?