Toronto Maple Leafs are surprisingly underperforming

[waitin425]

The fact that Marner is saying "well we started the same last year" shows that it is in his head. He is saying that they will have the same turnaround as last year. The 8-2 next 10 games someone mentioned above. From a sport psych stand point. What happens if they don't turn it around in the next 10. Let's say they go 4-5-1. Then what Mitch? Still no cause for panic? You are only as good as your record indicates.

"On paper" means shit.

Right now....10 games into the season. The Habs are a better team. Chew on that for a bit.

I will give it to them, that if they turn it around like last year, it could be a good confidence boost and really get this team motivated.

I will also add, that I fully expect the Leafs to finish ahead of the Habs at the end of the season.

 

[discostu]

This is a tough year to be at a make or break point for your franchise if you play in the Eastern Conference.

The standings are not forgiving this season. It's going to be a lot harder to dig out of any holes.

 

[Porkleaker]

Leafs are just missing a piece, like Hyman....lmao thanks for him btw.

 

[Pavels Dog]

The fact that Marner is saying "well we started the same last year" shows that it is in his head.

It also goes to show that he (and likely other players) feel like last year was good enough. Sure, they were a good regular season team. But no one on that team should be okay with just repeating the same performance again. They should be turning over every stone trying to find ways to improve as a team.

 

[PaulD]

At this point the team probably should try and make a big trade to wake players up . Last season at least they had good underlying numbers when they lost. This year they don't. The play like shit . Probably need a massive kick in the behind.

Probably. But they have had better line ups and better goal tending than this and never got near a Cup. Dont see much happening for this group without some kind of re-tooling.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

 

[serp]

Probably. But they have had better line ups and better goal tending than this and never got near a Cup. Dont see much happening for this group without some kind of re-tooling.

Their core players take too many games off. It's that simple. The way the team pays its star players they can't afford that. Their losses aren't on the cheap role players and the backup and third goalie . It's on the core. Somethings gotta give there. That probably should've happened a while back to be honest but at this point with Matthews becoming UFA at the end of next season there isn't much time left to make a move before the whole core could just desintegrate. If Matthews leaves in UFA this team will be blown up and its rebuild time again for the Leafs.

Question now is. Do you let a lameduck GM make major moves ? Conventional wisdom usually would indicate no.

 

[ijuka]

They needed to fire Dubas like 4 years ago. Now it's too late, but it's still better to fire him than not fire him. Guy just is completely clueless and the only good moves he's made are a version of "leafs were my favorite team growing up and I'll play for them for pennies". His actual GM moves have been failure after failure and he's completely wasted the core's primes.

This team needed a coach like Tortorella. He was available for a long time, but instead they stuck with rookie Keefe, who's behind Matthews and Marner in pecking order. Due to this mishandling of their star players, they(especially Marner) develop attitude problems.

 

[Blowfish]

Leaf fans can you please admit the "told you so crowd" was right?

 

[Jeune Poulet]

The calls for Trotz are puzzling. They don't remotely have a roster compatible with his system.

Maybe the Leafs need a coach with different inclinations and strengths.

Trotz was able to make it work with Ovechkin and win a cup.

 

[Number8]

What exactly are shambles in a brain?

Spoken like a man who's never had shambles put in his brain. Har Har- Har De Har.

Easy to joke at someone else's suffering when you literally wouldn't know a shamble if it bit you in the ass. You wait until someone puts them in YOUR brain. Won't be so funny then, will it tough guy?

 

[serp]

Maybe the Leafs need a coach with different inclinations and strengths.

Trotz was able to make it work with Ovechkin and win a cup.

What the Leafs need is a coach that gets the star players to pay attention to details . Gets the team to cut down on stupid mistakes . Even when Keefe made the right call in benching Marner after causing 2 goals against he almost instantly reverses it after Marner threw a fit and he was back playing with his buddy Matthews on the topline.

You can't have that. Your star players need to be held accountsable for mistakes as much as your role players.

I would hope Trotz could do that but with how much rope the Leafs core had in the last few years and despite barely archiving anything they probably need more than a coaching change.

 

[ijuka]

The calls for Trotz are puzzling. They don't remotely have a roster compatible with his system.

Assuming Trotz needs a specific group of players or that he has only one system. He's a good coach and he can get things done regardless.

 

[CupInSIX]

He was only given a PTO and not an NHL contract, and the Leafs are at the 50 contract limit right now.

All TOR goalies under contract:

1A - Ilya Samsonov
1B - Matt Murray
3A - Joseph Woll (injured)
3B - Erik Kallgren
5 - Dennis Hildeby (21 year old AHL rookie from SHL)

They could move out a player and sign him if he were good enough.

It's a shame. He was really promising a few years ago. Similar situation to Dipietro in Van/Boston

 

[NyQuil]

It's just always the same thing every year... From what I see always for Leafs fans it is always...

-obvious excitement to start the season

- a massive rollercoaster of emotions where they love/hate every player and coach/management all season

-fans are pumped going into the playoffs

-disaster strikes in playoffs and fans demand firings and roster changes

-nothing happens at all in the offseason except lose some bottom 6 type players

-fans are livid at lack of moves all offseason

-somehow after summer ends, fans change their minds and are excited for the year and think they will contend for a Cup even though Dubas did nothing to improve it

-repeat

... Somehow Dubas keeps his job every single year. It's totally astounding for a organization as world famous as the Maple Leafs that they are putting up with this every year while having some of the best players in the world

What is happening now doesn't really factor in to how they will play in the post-season provided they still make the playoffs.

I don't know why Keefe and/or Dubas remain but hysterics in October are overblown.

I mean, they should have fired one or both of them last season so if this early weak spell of play gets that accomplished then that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[CupInSIX]

Leaf fans can you please admit the "told you so crowd" was right?

Aside from the usual 2, were there that many Leaf fans delusional enough to think they were headed in the right direction after the Murray trade?

 

[Artorius Horus T]

1 regulation win in their last 7 games

1 regulation win
1 overtime win
5 losses (Arizona, Vegas, San Jose, Los Angeles, Anaheim)

6 points = last 7 games; 0.85 team points per game
= 72 games left = 0.85 x 72 = 61 points
= 61+10 = 71 = 71 points

 

[PunchImlach is Alive]

Matthews and Nylander would be traded on free agency day, not the deadline, as they'll be able to extend with their new teams and Leafs can get more value out of a sign-and-trade type of deal.

Tavares is staying, he won't waive his NMC.

Marner would either stay, or a team would give up a really good top 6 forward, probably a young one, as well as multiple high valued picks or prospects. Something like Marner and Kerfoot for Wheeler, Dubois, McGroarty, 1st, or maybe something around Kyrou in the offseason, I don't know. It's hard to say exactly why would pony up for Marner and what they would end up giving us.

Rielly I think would stay, even through a rebuild.

Robertson and Liljegren should probably also stay, they're young and developing. Trade Sandin.

Maybe we would keep Jarnkrok, at least, for now.

Everybody else on the NHL roster would be available to be sold off to the highest bidder.

We'll see how the Toronto fans do before the end of the year. If they just don't look like they want it like they have been all year, it's time to sell off the team.

 

[BKarchitect]

Not a Leafs fan. Relax. We can make the “team X” is underperforming thread about a lot of teams right now. The Avs have the same record. The Leafs will be fine. It would actually be enlightening to go back in this forum exactly one year and see all the ridiculous early season hot takes. I’m certain there were at least a few threads last year well into the season about how the Avs were underperforming. And they ended up being just fine. These stretches happen for everybody - it’s just that outside your specific forum, nobody notices when it is games 56 thru 65.

 

[BallardEra]

Not a Leafs fan. Relax. We can make the “team X” is underperforming thread about a lot of teams right now. The Avs have the same record. The Leafs will be fine. It would actually be enlightening to go back in this forum exactly one year and see all the ridiculous early season hot takes. I’m certain there were at least a few threads last year well into the season about how the Avs were underperforming. And they ended up being just fine. These stretches happen for everybody - it’s just that outside your specific forum, nobody notices when it is games 56 thru 65.

Have to disagree. Last year the underlying metrics showed that they'd turn it around. This year I don't even know what I'm watching.

Apples and oranges.

Dreadful road trip shows Maple Leafs GM Dubas has not built a Cup contender

 

[BlueBaron]

Are Leaf fans “suffering”?

Lol. I didn't claim we were checking our pulses. You'll have to talk to the guy getting turned on by our slow start.

I'm personally not. Thanks for asking.

 

[BKarchitect]

Have to disagree. Last year the underlying metrics showed that they'd turn it around. This year I don't even know what I'm watching.

Apples and oranges.

How valuable are underlying metrics over a 10 game sample size?

Get the quarter point of the season with zero change in performance and then I think you can start to have some serious questions.

It’s too early to panic, especially with essentially the same roster as last year.

 

[BallardEra]

How valuable are underlying metrics over a 10 game sample size?

Get the quarter point of the season with zero change in performance and then I think you can start to have some serious questions.

It’s too early to panic, especially with essentially the same roster as last year.

I agree about the panic part but this year the team just looks totally different and not as engaged, for whatever those reasons are.

They turned over the bottom 6 and so far that hasn't amounted to a whole lot.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

"Surprisingly" is kind of a hot take. .500 after 10 games is nothing to be surprised about for just about any team, any direction, regardless of most rational expectations? Nobody thought the Leafs were going to wreck the league or anything, did they?

 

[bsu]

It's just always the same thing every year... From what I see always for Leafs fans it is always...

-obvious excitement to start the season

- a massive rollercoaster of emotions where they love/hate every player and coach/management all season

-fans are pumped going into the playoffs

-disaster strikes in playoffs and fans demand firings and roster changes

-nothing happens at all in the offseason except lose some bottom 6 type players

-fans are livid at lack of moves all offseason

-somehow after summer ends, fans change their minds and are excited for the year and think they will contend for a Cup even though Dubas did nothing to improve it

-repeat

... Somehow Dubas keeps his job every single year. It's totally astounding for a organization as world famous as the Maple Leafs that they are putting up with this every year while having some of the best players in the world

Dallas Cowboys of the NHL.