Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[Mess]

As a person and a player I like Matt Murray, however his concussion history has to be a big concern ..

He last played a game March 5th, missed the last 25 reg season games and its going on 4 months now since he's been on skates, hoping is all goes well to try next week according to reports, while dealing with post concussion syndrome.

A Brain injury is not like a broken bone that heals, and with concussions sometimes the next one is worst then the prior one as they progress and accumulate and compound,

Much like Kase last year, I wouldn't take a risk on players with this injury history, both for their own sake, and for the organization. Every time Murray gets hit with a puck in the helmet, or bumped in the crease, or accidentally collides with a teammate in practice it could be his last game for a long time. Murray hasn't even dressed for 40 games in a season for the past 3 years and only 47 combined over the past 2.

This isn't a $1 mil dollar cap risk with a backup goalie here. Leafs are putting their faith and trust into a guy to be their starter and taking up nearly $5 mil (which is almost what Campbell and Mrazek combined used that year) and Leafs deployed 2 goalies with injury history to minimize the risk. Now they need to find another reliable goalie expected to be the backup, but who might end up being the starter but consuming limited cap space.

Not sure why a team with Cup aspirations is willing to take this much risk into their most important position when they don't need to, particularly after they dealt away their 1st round pick to create cap space to do it.

 

[Buds17]

We do very much still need a second, reliable goaltender. Kallgren and Woll should be the third string options

Absolutely. Can only hope Dubas also agrees and that he is able to bring in that goalie with what the team has to offer.

 

[therealkoho]

Well first ideally, another goalie completely. That would be option 1

Option 2, if you absolutely need Murray, not sure how you don’t get them to retain 50%. Another 1.5M saved on the cap for 2 years is worth more than a 3rd+7th so screw the draft picks. Toronto should have forgone the draft picks and ask ottawa for more retention (whether that’s a full 25% more or even just 10-15% more, it would still be better than receiving late picks in future years)

What other goalies exactly, sub 5m?

Ottawa is a budget team that treats nickles like manhole covers, not to mention the signings they need to make this year and next is going to require them to move more salary, rumour has it they want to get out from under Conor Browns salary and that's not a whole lot of money.

Look I know at least 30 people in here could do a better job and could have convinced Dorion to swallow another 2.5 or coughed up a 1st along with those 2 other free picks, and I know Murray's going to go 0-22-7 with a .774 and 4.49, but that's only because the Leafs are not going to play defence in front of him and keep leaving him flapping in the breeze because they hate Dubas because they can't win when they really need to, oh yes I can see it all now they make the playoffs by backing in and than get blown out in the 1st round. After going down in 4 straight Bettman is so angry at the lost revenue he makes the Leafs play the other 3 games which they also lose. LeaFlanders then switches their allegiance to the Canadiens which they've always wanted to da anyways.

Just adding one more crystal ball to all the others

Cheers

 

[Nineteen67]

That’s crazy though, given Murray’s durability. Imagine he goes down and Woll is it, that could go sideways real quick in Toronto. I’m assuming he gets another goalie.

What if Woll is good?

They knew they had goaltending issues 6 yrs ago - and didn’t fix it - at this point what’s the diff between throwing the Woll/Kallgren dart or some other one?

Unless they have a major trade up their sleeve they need money to sign the bottom 6 and D.

 

[Metroid]

"We've lost 6 1st round playoff series in a row and have gotten weaker but we're powerless to do anything about it so why bother complaining?"

There's lots of others on here complaining for me lol
I do most of my complaining in person with friends/collegues etc. I already get into too many arguments on reddit (not even sports related) need to take step back from that. Not good for the soul hahaha.
Here I try to stay positive, tho i do wish we got more outta this trade.

 

[Shooter2x]

I think Dubas was paying for the "killer instinct" here...I think Murray might be better in playoff hockey than he is int he season..

This move has Holtby in 2018 written all over it.

Nailing the backup position is key now. If we can do that correctly and keep Murray ready for the full playoff load, I think this will end up a good trade.

 

[bentharbs]

Knowing he has only played 20 games for the past few, is it a huge risk if the medical staff basically ascertained that they can LTIR him at any moment?

I have said it numerous times here, but that is the only way this makes any sense at all.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Before the trade was announced people on this board seemed to accept 50% retention and then a sweetener like Formenton on top of that..

This is very much not that, however I really hope Murray turns it around. Still young enough to do it

 

[Sypher04]

The goal was to improve the team , not to take sweeteners first dumps .

Dubas just blew almost 5m in cap on a guy who cleared waivers last season and has been put on the ir 7 times the last 2 seasons .

That’s a massive loss especially considering Ottawa was willing that pay more for Buffalo to take him.

Speculative on my part perhaps, but if we had more goaltending depth the past 2 years, I’m not sure Campbell wouldn’t have been on IR almost as many times. Instead, he simply played through his injuries and played poorly, which isn’t really better. Murray was probably shut down at any point for almost any reason because they weren’t really even using him

Before the trade was announced people on this board seemed to accept 50% retention and then a sweetener like Formenton on top of that..

This is very much not that, however I really hope Murray turns it around. Still young enough to do it

50% yes. Anyone expecting something like Formenton though were always thinking too big imo.

 

[Macallan18]

I'd go hockey knowledge with you any day of the week lol far from a sheep cuz I want to pull for Matt Murray there. I've seen what he's capable of. Absolutely I think we should have gotten more than a 3rd and a 7th. I think 50% should have been retained, or a nicer pick involved. That said, we have a guy who is EASILY comparable to Jack Campbell. Better resume. More playoff success, longer resume as a starter, and 2 years younger. Both have shown inconsistencies, both have had injury issues. Apples to apples, Matt Murray is the better goalie when both are playing at the top of their games. So if Murray was a free agent the same as Campbell, would you rather 5+ mil x 5+ years (Campbell's projected next deal), or 2yrs x 4.6mil for Murray? I'm taking the better goalie, with the longer track record, and two Stanley Cup rings, that's also younger...for the cheaper price and less term. It's that simple. The market isn't swimming with proven starters that are sub 30 years of age that will require low term, and less than 5mil. Campbell and Kuemper are the bells of the ball. And we got Murray not only for basically just money the same way as a free agent, but we got a 3rd and 7th round pick too, just because. I know a bad deal. I 100% have been sideways about some things Dubas has done. Far from a sheep. Take a step back and look at this for what it is, and it's a solid option that has a huge swing for the fences upside....and like anything in life, of course it might not pan out.

Agree, just think we need to shore up a second goalie with potential to play a lot if Murray has injury issues.
A Samsonov maybe in free agency, or maybe deal those picks for Reimer?

Edmonton has already tampered and basically agreed to 5x5 for Campbell or something like that.

If so, then that contract will make the Murray deal seem like the steal of the century.

 

[TopCheese]

Im a beleiver in Dubas and trades are usually his strong point but this is one of his worst trades to date. Just doesnt make sense any way you look at it. The fact that Toronto got a couple picks shows that we are doing Ottawa a favor taking a bad contract. Why the F are we taking on bad salary? Our cap issues are no secret and Dubas just made his job a lot harder when trying to fill out the rest of the roster. Would have rather kept Mrazek

 

[Twine Tickler]

I look forward to watching Matt play and no ill will towards him but to make this team better we needed more retention in order to add a better backup and depth up front. At 4.68m he has to carry the mail and it is too big a risk for me. Dubas should have dug in like he did with the Oilers for that lousy pick for Hyman but he blinked.

Ya I agree the compensation coming back is underwhelming. But I also think the fact that we had no NHL goaltenders on roster impacted this negotiation substantially. It's tough, on one hand we needed to make the Mrazek deal at the draft. If Chicago is stupid enough to take on a full Mrazek deal to gain only 13 spots in a draft, you absolutely have to take that deal. But it left us completely vulnerable.

Imagine we strike out in the goaltending UFA market, and now OTT holds all the cards. If we play hardball with them, any other team we'd be trying to acquire a tendy from knows how weak our position is.

In a Vacuum 4.69 for a goaltender of Matt Murray's potential is fair. It is incredibly unlikely he plays to a level that reflects his caphit. Wherein, I believe he will either play like a 2AAV goalie or his original caphit of 6+. Nothing in between. Dubas is making a bet that he can get 2 years of 6AAV goaltending at 75% of the cost. I can see why people disagree, but I also see Kyle's angle as well. In worst case scenario he is complete shit and we put him on waivers. We didn't receive excellent goaltending last season either and it never seemed to make a difference

 

[JKG33]

If Campbell signs for two years, you'll have a point. Is that what you think is going to happen?

Who cares if Campbell gets 5 years. The window is open now. Matthews is likely gone in 2 years. At that point it's time for a rebuild anyway, where Campbell at $5m isn't hurting anything.

Murray is more than $300k worse than Campbell. Give me the goalie that gives the team the best chance to win, especially if you're spending basically $5m either way

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Speculative on my part perhaps, but if we had more goaltending depth the past 2 years, I’m not sure Campbell wouldn’t have been on IR almost as many times. Instead, he simply played through his injuries and played poorly, which isn’t really better. Murray was probably shut down at any point for almost any reason because they weren’t really even using him



50% yes. Anyone expecting something like Formenton though were always thinking too big imo.

Just look back in any of the threads beforehand, names like Pinto, Formenton and Zub were being bounced around like crazy on top of 50%. It was pretty wide spread accepted that we should only take Murray with a good sweetener on top

 

[NewEraGM]

What other goalies exactly, sub 5m?

Ottawa is a budget team that treats nickles like manhole covers, not to mention the signings they need to make this year and next is going to require them to move more salary, rumour has it they want to get out from under Conor Browns salary and that's not a whole lot of money.

Look I know at least 30 people in here could do a better job and could have convinced Dorion to swallow another 2.5 or coughed up a 1st along with those 2 other free picks, and I know Murray's going to go 0-22-7 with a .774 and 4.49, but that's only because the Leafs are not going to play defence in front of him and keep leaving him flapping in the breeze because they hate Dubas because they can't win when they really need to, oh yes I can see it all now they make the playoffs by backing in and than get blown out in the 1st round. After going down in 4 straight Bettman is so angry at the lost revenue he makes the Leafs play the other 3 games which they also lose. LeaFlanders then switches their allegiance to the Canadiens which they've always wanted to da anyways.

Just adding one more crystal ball to all the others

Cheers

U ok dude?

 

[Havoc]

Okay I calmed down.

If he gets us playoff wins it's a good trade for me. Will rate in 2023.

Making stanley cup moves not president trophy moves for once. Sometimes the move that pisses off all sides ends up being the genius one we were waiting for.

 

[thewave]

Who cares if Campbell gets 5 years. The window is open now. Matthews is likely gone in 2 years. At that point it's time for a rebuild anyway, where Campbell at $5m isn't hurting anything.

Murray is more than $300k worse than Campbell. Give me the goalie that gives the team the best chance to win, especially if you're spending basically $5m either way

Basically if Murray doesn't pan out mid season we're going to enter restructuring if we are smart. That's about it, will be considered a squandered rebuild and it will be on Dubas.

Add: How do you salvage it if it's a bust? Start trading picks into 2027? It's so bad I can't even believe it.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Two sides to this and they're both positive IMO:

1) Dubas was actually a genius all along and we go deep in the playoffs
2) Leafs fail to advance in the playoffs again, Dubas gets fired and we can move on with a competent GM.

3) Leafs fail to advance in the playoffs again, Dubas goes nowhere and we run it the f*** back, with 4 different bottom 6 forwards.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Basically if Murray doesn't pan out mid season we're going to enter restructuring if we are smart. That's about it, will be considered a squandered rebuild and it will be on Dubas.

Or we make a big mid season trade for a guy like Gibson and perhaps get Murray on LTIR or something

 

[All Mod Cons]

I mean even with the rest of the off-season and into next, I just have no faith Dubas can make a trade that favours the Leafs. At best he breaks even.

I just hope he doesn't trade our 1st at the deadline next year.

Jesus, man. We've been saying that for years and you've fought tooth and nail against it. That's frustrating.

 

[DueDiligence]

49 GP
14 with 4 or more goals

28%

Don't know what you were trying to prove with that.

It's a stupid stat because Murray played so little so his was always going to be skewed but what did you expect when you said "do Campbell"

I did the original comparison between Murray and Forsberg to demonstrate that Murray is very inconsistent. He can have runs of games where he plays very well then he will stink the joint out in a bunch of games. Combine that with his injury history and it's a big role of the dice for the Leafs.

 

[thewave]

Or we make a big mid season trade for a guy like Gibson and perhaps get Murray on LTIR or something

2 years left... This is riverboat gambler style, high on drugs at the table letting out that WOOOOOOOOOOOOO, going big or going home broke. You have to see that this whole situation is ridiculously unstable right.

 

[The Masters]

half full again

 

[CanHeDoIt99]

half full again

Murray is probably as good as Campbell, with a higher ceiling as well.

Question really just comes down to health for me. Plugging 4.8 on Murray if hes in and out of the lineup a bunch is tough, but hopefully the medical records gave them more comfort here.

 

[DarkKnight]

What if Woll is good?

They knew they had goaltending issues 6 yrs ago - and didn’t fix it - at this point what’s the diff between throwing the Woll/Kallgren dart or some other one?

Unless they have a major trade up their sleeve they need money to sign the bottom 6 and D.

Sure I’m just saying “if” doesn’t make me comfortable.

As a person and a player I like Matt Murray, however his concussion history has to be a big concern ..

He last played a game March 5th, missed the last 25 reg season games and its going on 4 months now since he's been on skates, hoping is all goes well to try next week according to reports, while dealing with post concussion syndrome.

A Brain injury is not like a broken bone that heals, and with concussions sometimes the next one is worst then the prior one as they progress and accumulate and compound,

Much like Kase last year, I wouldn't take a risk on players with this injury history, both for their own sake, and for the organization. Every time Murray gets hit with a puck in the helmet, or bumped in the crease, or accidentally collides with a teammate in practice it could be his last game for a long time. Murray hasn't even dressed for 40 games in a season for the past 3 years and only 47 combined over the past 2.

This isn't a $1 mil dollar cap risk with a backup goalie here. Leafs are putting their faith and trust into a guy to be their starter and taking up nearly $5 mil (which is almost what Campbell and Mrazek combined used that year) and Leafs deployed 2 goalies with injury history to minimize the risk. Now they need to find another reliable goalie expected to be the backup, but who might end up being the starter but consuming limited cap space.

Not sure why a team with Cup aspirations is willing to take this much risk into their most important position when they don't need to, particularly after they dealt away their 1st round pick to create cap space to do it.

Well said.