Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[Gary Nylund]

Who cares if Campbell gets 5 years. The window is open now. Matthews is likely gone in 2 years. At that point it's time for a rebuild anyway, where Campbell at $5m isn't hurting anything.

Murray is more than $300k worse than Campbell. Give me the goalie that gives the team the best chance to win, especially if you're spending basically $5m either way

LOL, Ok then.

Okay I calmed down.

If he gets us playoff wins it's a good trade for me. Will rate in 2023.

Making stanley cup moves not president trophy moves for once. Sometimes the move that pisses off all sides ends up being the genius one we were waiting for.

Well done sir, I have to say, this put a smile on my face. If only there were more people capable of doing this.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

2 years left... This is riverboat gambler style, high on drugs at the table letting out that WOOOOOOOOOOOOO, going big or going home broke. You have to see that this whole situation is ridiculously unstable right.

Yup, as I said previously I really think Dubas was banking on Campbell as the #1 and is scrambling to patch holes at this point

half full again

The issue is Matt Murray has only played 14 games from January 1st to right now. When he did play he had some lights out games but also some real stinkers

 

[Recipe Unlimited]

I wonder if the leafs will be trading kerfoot and maybe holl to the Sens tomorrow for a 2nd round pick. (After the leafs pay kerfoot's signing bonus)

 

[Buds17]

half full again

While this could very well be quite meaningful, 12 GP difference and opponents faced?

 

[ToneDog]

I mean even with the rest of the off-season and into next, I just have no faith Dubas can make a trade that favours the Leafs. At best he breaks even.

I just hope he doesn't trade our 1st at the deadline next year.

There is a reason JD Bunkis says Dubas gets "body bagged" in trades.

 

[notbias]

The issue is Matt Murray has only played 14 games from January 1st to right now. When he did play he had some lights out games but also some real stinkers

As opposed to Campbell having almost all stinkers.

I think most people are upset with the risk, not the player if he stays healthy.

He's likely the best goalie available (maybe Kuemper but his injury history scares me more), just a tough pill to swallow if he is hurt this year and there is no backup plan.

 

[Future]

I don’t like the move, obviously. But would people be happier and more confident in our situation if we did what Detroit or Colorado did and traded a third rounder for Husso or Georgiev?

 

[notbias]

There is a reason JD Bunkis says Dubas gets "body bagged" in trades.

I feel like he's won like 70%+ of his trades, the only two that I think are overpays (that I can think of) are Foligno and this. Foligno was also barely an overpay and there were multiple teams offering a 1st if I am not mistaken.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Well I thought you guys were saying we were getting Murray at 3.1M AAV .. what is this future consideration??????????? .. why so secretive????????????? .. to me Soup was dead here .. when a tender can't win 1 game 7 when he has 5 attempts in 2 years then for me he is dead .. much like Freddy was dead here too .. no issues for me with trying someone new who has won 2 Cups .. but da cost for a reclamation project seems very very very HIGH on AAV .. it will likely cripple team getting another D for a Cup run .. seems very desperate to me

 

[notbias]

I don’t like the move, obviously. But would people be happier and more confident in our situation if we did what Detroit or Colorado did and traded a third rounder for Husso or Georgiev?

Same risk, maybe more. No clue what Colorado is thinking, the Detroit gamble makes more sense.

 

[thewave]

LOL, Ok then.


Well done sir, I have to say, this put a smile on my face. If only there were more people capable of doing this.

Gary lets face it. It's probably true. The team management has been junk and they can't even solidify the tender position. The cap is a mess and on top of it all, the money he will make going to US care of tax advantages alone will outweigh the pros of staying here. Why would you stick around in a mess like this? Why would any young American unless he is married or getting married to someone from Toronto?

Anyone can put together a pros and cons list. We are missing the biggest one, the Stamkos one, proven winning organization with top tier management and even then, Stamkos' wife was from TB and that played a big factor.

 

[Fogelhund]

From Dec 1st through the end of the season last year:

Campbell in 31 gp
.893 Sv%, -1.95 dFenSv%, -22.5 GSAx

Murray in 14 gp
.914 Sv%, +1.18 dFenSv%, +7.76 GSAx

 

[4thline]

He's likely the best goalie available (maybe Kuemper but his injury history scares me more), just a tough pill to swallow if he is hurt this year and there is no backup plan.

I think people just had visions of crushing the sens. But as soon as a team with cup aspirations shows interest in a player at lot of that "dump" leverage goes out the window.

There was serious hope for paying through the nose for the privilege of gambling that Gibson's last three years were based on the team and he'd bounce back.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

As opposed to Campbell having almost all stinkers.

I think most people are upset with the risk, not the player if he stays healthy.

He's likely the best goalie available (maybe Kuemper but his injury history scares me more), just a tough pill to swallow if he is hurt this year and there is no backup plan.

I didn't want Campbell brought back either, he was dreadful for a very large part of the season.

I think most people are upset about a few things: the reported trade with Buffalo that Murray refused and the amount of value given up compared to what the leafs got, the 25% retention being far too little, the massive risk of acquiring an injury prone goalie who has had a rough couple of years etc.

If Kallgren/Woll is the backup plan Dubas has lost it

 

[ToneDog]

As opposed to Campbell having almost all stinkers.

I think most people are upset with the risk, not the player if he stays healthy.

He's likely the best goalie available (maybe Kuemper but his injury history scares me more), just a tough pill to swallow if he is hurt this year and there is no backup plan.

Look on the bright side, it will be the end of the Shanahan era. Shanny has been here 8 going on 9 seasons and has failed to develop a goalie.

The only guy who got us a true #1 was the old dinosaur. Since Dubas took over it has been downhill in goal except for a month of Soup playing lights out.

 

[ShaneFalco]

From Dec 1st through the end of the season last year:

Campbell in 31 gp
.893 Sv%, -1.95 dFenSv%, -22.5 GSAx

Murray in 14 gp
.914 Sv%, +1.18 dFenSv%, +7.76 GSAx

More than double the games played
meaningless

 

[Ziggdiezan]

From Dec 1st through the end of the season last year:

Campbell in 31 gp
.893 Sv%, -1.95 dFenSv%, -22.5 GSAx

Murray in 14 gp
.914 Sv%, +1.18 dFenSv%, +7.76 GSAx

Which backup is playing those extra 17 games? Thats then big question i think, most people know Campbell was horrible for the 2nd half of the season

 

[Menzinger]

From Dec 1st through the end of the season last year:

Campbell in 31 gp
.893 Sv%, -1.95 dFenSv%, -22.5 GSAx

Murray in 14 gp
.914 Sv%, +1.18 dFenSv%, +7.76 GSAx

Campbell's also two years older

 

[TheTotalPackage]

half full again

Definitely encouraging. But that screams hot streak than sustainability over the course of an 82-game season.

I'm all for finding positives in trying to make this look like it'll work out for the Leafs, but until Murray proves the last few seasons are behind him (next April will be the true test of that), then cherrypicking stretches of stats just reeks of trying to find ways to make one feel better about something they deep down are unsure of.

 

[ToneDog]

I feel like he's won like 70%+ of his trades, the only two that I think are overpays (that I can think of) are Foligno and this. Foligno was also barely an overpay and there were multiple teams offering a 1st if I am not mistaken.

Debatable and probably has been beaten to death. Our hopes now lie in Murray. Good kid, 2 times SC winner.

My fear is that if he plays poorly, he is going to hear it from the crowd. Expect the worst, hope for the best.

 

[notbias]

I didn't want Campbell brought back either, he was dreadful for a very large part of the season.

I think most people are upset about a few things: the reported trade with Buffalo that Murray refused and the amount of value given up compared to what the leafs go, the 25% retention, the massive risk of acquiring an injury prone goalie who has had a rough couple of years etc.

If Kallgren/Woll is the backup plan Dubas has lost it

Not happy with the trade, but we are also pretending like there are good options available.

Wanted 75% retention (could have lived with 50%), the return of picks I feel like is close to the package that was going to be sent to Buffalo, so no complaints there, I just wanted no picks and full retention + retention from another team paid for by Ottawa.

Pretending like there are good options out there that aren't risky is just not true, that's the only silver lining if there is one (and also that he is capable of playing lights out).

 

[Sypher04]

Just look back in any of the threads beforehand, names like Pinto, Formenton and Zub were being bounced around like crazy on top of 50%. It was pretty wide spread accepted that we should only take Murray with a good sweetener on top

And yet, again, some of us like myself never agreed that any of those were remotely likely. It was always going to be picks or maybe reduced acquisition cost of someone they were considering moving Brown.

And fwiw a 3rd in a deep draft like 2023 is arguably as valuable as a 2nd was in one that wasn’t like 2022

 

[DueDiligence]

half full again

Anton Forsberg's stats for the Senators over the same period:
33 games 2.70 GAA and a .920 save percentage.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Look on the bright side, it will be the end of the Shanahan era. Shanny has been here 8 going on 9 seasons and has failed to develop a goalie.

The only guy who got us a true #1 was the old dinosaur. Since Dubas took over it has been downhill in goal except for a month of Soup playing lights out.

You should be right in your analysis and I agree with it .. but Larry does not .. we are not gonna see da end of Shanny until 2024/25 when his contract runs out .. and Shanny like I thought is going down with ship (Dubie again like I thought) .. 3 more seasons of this nonsense .. although if Matty does go after 2 seasons then they likely clean house a little early

 

[ShaneFalco]

Not happy with the trade, but we are also pretending like there are good options available

I dunno - maybe it's a GM's job to have some foresight and not be put in desperation mode?