Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[JKG33]

The worst part of this is that if Campbell gets $5m, they essentially have the same cap hit. You're getting a significantly worse goalie and all you've got to show for it is $300k and a 3rd rd pick (which Dubas likes to waste on duds like Rittich).

 

[ToneDog]

This is an incredibly bold move by Dubas here. I completely understand the logic here though. Having Murray on a 2 year term is far less risk to our future then having Jack on a 5+ year term. It was the exact same thing with Hyman last season. As painful as it will be to see soupy go, I think letting him walk is realistically the only option for both parties. Jack deserves a good deal to set him and his family up for life, and we cannot afford to commit to a 30 year old goalie to term.

Of course, Matt Murray being our #1 carries an incredible amount of risk as well. We could easily be throwing away this season if he cannot return to form and we have no one to fill the net in his absence. I think the compensation was a little low for taking on 75% of Murray's deal, but we weren't exactly negotiating from a position of power either. We had no NHL goalies on our roster and not many options in UFA. If we were to strike out in UFA, the trade market for us would be 10x worse. At the end of the day, I honestly didn't feel comfortable giving either one of Keumper or Campbell term on a deal, so I can live with the Murray experiment. 4.69AAV is more than manageable, and we did get assets to take this risk, albeit not a crazy amount.

I will say, if you're a betting person you might want to consider a small wager on Murray for Vezina. He's going to be playing on a significantly better team and the early reports suggest he is healthy. Tremendous value

Your money is better spent handling to some homeless person. If this were stocks, the smart move is to short Murray, Shanny, Dubas, Keefe and the Leafs.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Everyone defending this team keeps saying that. Guess what, they did it with the best goal scorer this team, and maybe the league, has ever seen. This team did that despite Dubas, not because of him.

And they were 10 points better than 4 years ago with ZERO playoff rounds still

 

[Sypher04]

Yup probably why Sens fans are dancing in the streets. I get taking a risk on Murray @ 3.1 because it gave you money for a better backup but blinking and accepting the extra 1.6m from a rival GM desperate to dump that contract is where he loses the trade.

We laughed at the Sens for giving Murray 3x6.25. How some can't see that Murray 2x4.68 is so wrong boggles my mind. Sorry not buying any bullshit from anybody who has anything good to say about this trade today.

I’m not even saying anything good about the trade. I’ve said repeatedly we needed to get more retention than this. I’ve just also said that the jury is out overall until he actually plays for the Leafs.

The lack of more retention is what makes this not a win imo. But an outright loss, when you got the player, 2 picks and 25% still of retention.

I’m a firm believer that you cannot lose a trade where all you gave up was future considerations aka nothing.

And I couldn’t be less interested what Sens fans think.

 

[DarkKnight]

 

[justashadowof]

I’m waiting until 2029 to see how that 7th rounder turned out before passing judgement.

The value of the difference between that 7th rounder and no rounder? You guessed it: a 7th rounder.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Analytics are also very useful for post hoc rationalization.

P.S. I f***ing hate Sid the Shill. This f***er was on morning television advocating for the government stealing and imprisoning people who had committed no crime. He can rot in hell.

I don't hate Sid and haven't watched him in years. That said, his opinions IMHO are 100% worthless, I watched once or twice years ago and just couldn't do it any more. Appealing to this clown as some sort of authority is just LMAO, may as well refer to other entertainers like Hayes or whoever else.

I think some people just want to hate and as soon as someone else tweets/posts something hateful, they just gleefully share it without even considering the source. What can you do, that's what this place has become lately. I thought it would have died down some by now but I guess not.

 

[Shooter2x]

I mean I made a post 2 months ago (as in I'd be a hypocrite to totally hate today) about winning trades absolutely and no more of these "made sense at the time, unfortunate it didn't work out, but it was still smart" total loss trades.

This one makes no sense right now, but maybe we win it. Let's see what happens. The ones that make sense to the majority have rarely worked

 

[ToneDog]

Like most, I’m underwhelmed with the deal, but it’s blatantly clear and obvious that the team wanted to steer clear of long term at high AAV.
Given goalie performance variance, I absolutely endorse that part of the trade.
The injury risk and recent performance is concerning.
I want to trust the fo and new goalie departments evaluation on the player, but we’ll see I guess.
Hoped for more coming back, and feel (like others have suggested) that there *has* to be another shoe to drop with Ottawa, but maybe not.
Underwhelmed but still hopeful.
On to the next part of the off-season, team overall still looks good to me.

Therein lies the mistake. They made this clear to Dorion and he waited until Dumbas blinked. The Leafs totally messed up their goaltending from the day they lowed balled Soup, which some think pissed off the Soup camp into coming back with a ridiculous counter offer. Negotiations from then on were virtually non-existant.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Analytics are also very useful for post hoc rationalization.

P.S. I f***ing hate Sid the Shill. This f***er was on morning television advocating for the government stealing from and imprisoning people who had committed no crime. He can rot in hell.

Don't hold back!

 

[deprw]

Can't believe some are shitting on Campbell and propping up Murray. Would love to go back to game threads to see what the same posters were saying about Murray the Senator.

Campbell was solid for his last contract, but I rather pay 5 million to Murray for two years than 5 million for Campbell for five. Price is the problem and amount of retention. Also there could have been other options, but it's gamble to go with guy like Samsonov.

There wasn't any 100% option at the market, like there wasn't last year.

Dubas is walking on pretty thin ice with this "bargain bin shopping", because this move is impossible to defend if Murray is injured once again and we have to replace him mid season.

Though this same risk is also with Campbell and Murrays ceiling is higher than Campbells. Still no reason to shit on Campbell. He was dependable soldier here.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The worst part of this is that if Campbell gets $5m, they essentially have the same cap hit. You're getting a significantly worse goalie and all you've got to show for it is $300k and a 3rd rd pick (which Dubas likes to waste on duds like Rittich).

If Campbell signs for two years, you'll have a point. Is that what you think is going to happen?

The value of the difference between that 7th rounder and no rounder? You guessed it: a 7th rounder.

I can't wait to see what the argument against this is going to be.

 

[Sypher04]

Analytics are also very useful for post hoc rationalization.

P.S. I f***ing hate Sid the Shill. This f***er was on morning television advocating for the government stealing from and imprisoning people who had committed no crime. He can rot in hell.

Crosby almost never says anything at all that could be construed even marginally controversial, so I’d be surprised if he said anything If the sort.

 

[egd27]

Good luck. After watching Dubas lose a trade to a desperate Dorion he has cemented his fate. Sabres should be in big with Samsonov.

Not too comforting to realize that the GM of Leafs found himself in a more desperate position than the GM of Sens through his lack of foresight yet again.

 

[ToneDog]

I’m not even saying anything good about the trade. I’ve said repeatedly we needed to get more retention than this. I’ve just also said that the jury is out overall until he actually plays for the Leafs.

The lack of more retention is what makes this not a win imo. But an outright loss, when you got the player, 2 picks and 25% still of retention.

I’m a firm believer that you cannot lose a trade where all you gave up was future considerations aka nothing.

And I couldn’t be less interested what Sens fans think.

Sure I don't care either but the fact that they are happy with the trade and most Leaf fans are not, tells me who won the trade.

 

[thewave]

I don't even know how Shanahan can look at this move and not fire Dubas on the spot. At the same time I wish I could hear the thoughts of the players. I can't imagine this is an inspiration like the Raptors got when they traded for Leonard (lol).

 

[aingefan]

Therein lies the mistake. They made this clear to Dorion and he waited until Dumbas blinked. The Leafs totally messed up their goaltending from the day they lowed balled Soup, which some think pissed off the Soup camp into coming back with a ridiculous counter offer. Negotiations from then on were virtually non-existant.

Meh, I don’t if that’s much of a mistake.
I prefer a two-year gamble more than a 5 or 6 or 7 year one. And the goalie market is shouting up, more than it should for the guys who are about to get it.
Im happy they stayed away from that, quite happy actually. On balance, I prefer this deal to the Husso and Georgiev deals. And that’s being underwhelmed.

 

[ToneDog]

I’m waiting until 2029 to see how that 7th rounder turned out before passing judgement.

Dubas the galaxy brain will probably trade down and turn it into the last two picks of the round and then draft the two best players. Can't wait.

 

[justashadowof]

I don't hate Sid and haven't watched him in years. That said, his opinions IMHO are 100% worthless, I watched once or twice years ago and just couldn't do it any more. Appealing to this clown as some sort of authority is just LMAO, may as well refer to other entertainers like Hayes or whoever else.

I think some people just want to hate and as soon as someone else tweets/posts something hateful, they just gleefully share it without even considering the source. What can you do, that's what this place has become lately. I thought it would have died down some by now but I guess not.

I wasn't like this before. Once these entertainers start looking to whip up the mob with their positions of influence, they deserve my contempt. And unfortunately the list is long. Very long.

 

[Sinkkunaattori]

Having Murray injured on the sidelines for these next 2 years is so inspiring to Woll and Källgren that they are really going to take off next year and both become vezina candidates, right?

 

[Sypher04]

Sure I don't care either but the fact that they are happy with the trade and most Leaf fans are not, tells me who won the trade.

A little simplistic. It’s a win to them because they cleared 75% cap for a goalie who wasn’t going to play ahead of Forsberg or Gustafsson. Yes that has value, but the Leafs still got all the non cap assets and gave up nothing.

And again, before someone sees this out of context of the rest of my posts. I think we needed more retention

 

[Metroid]

That's what some people seem to not quite understand. The Leafs were given a pick to take him, not to other way around.

If it doesn't work out, nothing was really lost.

I think most people just upset that we didn't get more or atleast got him for 50% off.

That's where I'm at. At this point what's done is done and we wait to see what happens going forward.

 

[ToneDog]

Meh, I don’t if that’s much of a mistake.
I prefer a two-year gamble more than a 5 or 6 or 7 year one. And the goalie market is shouting up, more than it should for the guys who are about to get it.
Im happy they stayed away from that, quite happy actually. On balance, I prefer this deal to the Husso and Georgiev deals. And that’s being underwhelmed.

Dubas did not have a 3rd pick to offer for Husso. It would have had to have been the Hawks second and that was a non-starter.

Sorry there are not many worse deals than Murray @ 4.68m. Dubas f***ed the pooch on this one.

 

[DarkKnight]

Dubas the galaxy brain will probably trade down and turn it into the last two picks of the round and then draft the two best players. Can't wait.

He was a steal in the 8th round

 

[ShaneFalco]

Not too comforting to realize that the GM of Leafs found himself in a more desperate position than the GM of Sens through his lack of foresight yet again.

Like