Confirmed Trade: [TOR/ANA] Bernier to Anaheim for conditional 2017 pick

[TMLeafer]

I think he lived in California in the off season anyway no? Hope he does well.

 

[BEERnSOUP]

Lou was interviewed and said it was for future considerations and that he wouldn't comment on any more details. Is it actually a conditional pick?

 

[dracom]

Lou was interviewed and said it was for future considerations and that he wouldn't comment on any more details. Is it actually a conditional pick?

future consideration based on the conditions from the Andersen trade? something weird like that.

 

[colchar]

Fans love hearing how their great atmosphere gave the guys a boost, but fans hate hearing how their boos or bronze cheers two games (or was it periods?) into a season is affecting players negatively. The fans have impact on the mental game, whether you like it or not.

Bronx cheers, not bronze.

 

[TheBigThree]

Bernier is underrated, good pickup by ana

 

[The Examiner]

That's not even true. Maybe there was a majority on HF by the end, but Reimer was definitely sort-of loved by Leafs Nation as a whole. HF isn't a reflective of all of it.

Being in Toronto and personally interacting with people who have never heard of HF, I honestly can't think of one who was comfortable or liked Reimer (or Bernier for that matter). Granted, the majority of them may not be "diehards" like us in here, but they still had their input. Most fans (myself included) flip-flopped on who was "better". How can you blame us when the brilliant games they had were rare when you compare them to the brutal ones.

I don't obsess over anything, and I don't disregard anything. I always acknowledged his complete mental breakdown. Instances of that aren't rare. We've seen the exact same thing happen to Dubnyk in Edmonton, and with Mason in Columbus. They all had the same struggles, and lack of confidence and mental problems tend to show the same symptoms. Like those two were actually horrible at those times, Bernier was horrible in the first half of last year. But going by experience, such stretches aren't adequate reflections of a goalie's ability, just like they weren't with Dubnyk or Mason. Those stretches are terrible when they happen, but they aren't too meaningful in projections going forward.

I agree with the overall sentiment of this post but, unfortunately, those stretches WERE an adequate reflection of Bernier's abilitities as they were all too common.

The reason I bring up his strong 13-14 season so much is in response to statements about all the things Bernier suddenly "has never been".

That's fine but let's not get crazy. It was a decent season and he still cost the team plenty of games. One might even say it was outlier when compared to his whole body of work here.

I watch more than enough, and I'll take my judgement given my knowledge from playing the position for a long time over some disheartened fans' any day. So you had a mentally weak team that wasn't able to pick itself up over a bad goal - that's more of an indictment of the team than anything else. The biggest problem with Freddie Andersen, interestingly, is his mental lapses and occasional brutally soft goals, as well. They sure weren't as frequent as with Bernier last season, but that has been a common theme any Ducks fan will tell you about (minus a guy from Denmark, maybe). Using it as an excuse for your players is just poor.

I'll also take my experience of playing hockey (and soccer for that matter) and say that having a goalie like Bernier backing you, is not fun and you could almost feel the frustration of the players when he let in one of his many blunders. You can't go into a game always wondering "will he or won't he".

I wouldn't say that the team being mentally weak was the issue. They were just bad and young (especially this year) and were offensively challenged. It doesn't help when you have a goalie who is so shockingly inconsistent, playing behind these guys. (Reimer too). You can get away with it on a more talented team, I guess, but Bernier is just not a very reliable goalie and he has no place in Toronto. He may do well behind an Anaheim team but it doesn't matter. He was awful for the Leafs and that's all I care about.

As far as Andersen goes, we will have to wait and see how he does behind this team. I'll give him a fair shake, as I did Bernier. I gave Bernier (and, again, Reimer) every chance to win me over but he didn't. As much as we love them when they are great, I'm not going to care about it if they are consistently bad.

You have your mind made up about what is shadowing over what. His overall body of work with the Leafs isn't remotely as bad as most Leafs fans paint it. It isn't just the 20 games, those are just an indication of him having bounced back to a fair degree after that disaster of a first half.

His overall body of work with Leafs was ABSOLUTLEY as bad as the more sensible Leaf fans have painted it. He's not the "OMG, he's the worst goalie in the world, he'll be out of the league in 2 years, **** him" bad but he had a negative impact on this team, in his tenure here. I've watched every game he played here (including his 4 Marlie games which he was great in) and I can honestly say, overall, he was awful. I consider myself pretty unbiased and didn't unconditionally "love" Bernier or Reimer. I gave them the chance and they failed me.

In regards to those 20 games. They weren't an indication of him bouncing back but rather a confirmation of what we already knew he was here in Toronto. He played well for a couple of games (he had a 35+ save shutout at the beginning of the stretch) then played so bad that he had to be sent down to the minors for re-conditioning. He returned and pitched another 35+ save shutout, only to falter again. Admittedly, he wasn't as bad as before he was sent down but he was still inconsistent. Actually, I might be wrong, maybe he was consistent. Consistently inconsistent.

At the end of the day, I have no ill will towards him (or Reimer). They both seemed like good guys and considering all of the idiots they likely had to deal with in this city, they never complained and went about their business like professionals. I hope that they can turn their careers around and have success. It just wasn't happening in Toronto.

 

[NEWFowler]

Meh. Better than any free agent we would've signed. Cap hit kind of sucks though.. but I think Murray forgot that the cap is a thing anyways.

 

[kevrondl]

Funny because I think Bernier is better than Anderson, but I guess we'll see.

 

[crowi]

Funny because I think Bernier is better than Anderson, but I guess we'll see.

What I don't understand is how people are cool writing "Bernier", but "Andersen" is so damn hard.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

What I don't understand is how people are cool writing "Bernier", but "Andersen" is so damn hard.

Because Andersen and Anderson is the same name just spelled differently just like Chris and Kris

Hence mistakes are easy to make

 

[Semantics]

Nobody cares about career stats going back multiple years when determining a starter at a given time.

Kyle Dubas does. You should watch his talk at MIT, where he touched on the importance of using a large body of work to analyze players.

In his years with the Leafs, Bernier was the better goalie by a fair margin up until last year. It wasn't just the stats that were saying that, it's also what anyone with any knowledge of the position could tell. The gap in technical ability was too vast for Reimer to come close to overcoming, until Bernier mentally collapsed last year.

This is terrible analysis, please stop. Your eye test is telling you that Bernier has superior technique, and most of the time that's true, but don't confuse that with him being a better goaltender. What you're unable to account for with your eye test is the fact that Reimer is MUCH bigger. If you're going to tell me that your can tell with your eyes that Bernier's size disadvantage is overcome by his superior technique then I'm going to call you a liar. Nobody can accurately discern something like that. That's why we use stats.

 

[hizzoner]

Do not trade deals need to be registered with NHL and aren't those deals then public information? They cannot make secret deals can they?

 

[sxvnert]

Laughable. He earned every bit of the "advantages" by being a flat our better goalie than Reimer until last year. For some reason no one outside of Leafs Nation seems to understand, he was fighting an uphill battle with the fanbase that had an irrational affection to Reimer. Bernier earned the starting job for two seasons. Then he lost it. Him being gone now doesn't retroactively change anything about that.

Personally hated both goaltenders. The advantages were given by management & coaches while the excuses for Reimer were given by the leafs fan base. Anyone telling you otherwise is deluding themselves.

Neither goaltender is a #1 and never will be.

 

[Seras]

What's our over-under that Bernier gains major value over this season?

He already has on this site. Or do you mean actual value for an NHL team?

 

[Vipers31]

Kyle Dubas does. You should watch his talk at MIT, where he touched on the importance of using a large body of work to analyze players.

What does it matter in a context like that? That's not accounting for development, which makes little sense given how young and inexperienced Bernier was in his pre-Toronto days.

This is terrible analysis, please stop. Your eye test is telling you that Bernier has superior technique, and most of the time that's true, but don't confuse that with him being a better goaltender.

I don't "confuse" it with one another, but it's one big factor in him being the better goaltender.

What you're unable to account for with your eye test is the fact that Reimer is MUCH bigger.

Uhm, yes, I am very much able to detect that Reimer is taller; but he's no giant himself. One of the symptoms of confidence issues is playing less tall, and that was certainly visible with Bernier in the early stages of last season and occasionally lateron, which made the difference seem a bit bigger than it usually even is.

If you're going to tell me that your can tell with your eyes that Bernier's size disadvantage is overcome by his superior technique then I'm going to call you a liar. Nobody can accurately discern something like that.

I don't care what you call me. That's not even a particularly tough thing to do. Plenty people can do that, and plenty people do. Not necessarily those singular aspects alone, but along with further essentials.

That's why we use stats.

Or, you know, scout, to eliminate the many flaws that exist in the existing translations into numbers. If you don't feel confident about your ability to judge goaltending, kudos to understanding your limitations, but calling it impossible because you can't is amazingly ignorant.

Not really seeing how this whole argument even helps Reimer's case, when up until last season's breakdown on Bernier's part, the latter had the significantly better stats in both other years they were on the same team.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Are we going to learn what the pick is? This trade will look a lot different if it's a 1st or a 7th...

Someone else may already have pointed this out, but Anaheim does not have a 6th- or 7th-round pick next year as of now.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Maybe we'll have one who can win in MTL
You should be saddened.

Reminds me of this:



or, if you're not bilingual and love the King:

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Bernier was really shaky for most of the season. The team didn't trust him when he was in net and he let in an easy goal almost every game it seemed like. Not 100% his fault but he had some really awful months as far as his standards go. He got better as the season went on but turned from a horrible goalie to an average goalie. He's got the potential to rebound if he gets his confidence back and I think he'll do much better in a backup role.

.920 in 2016 = average goalie ?

Tough crowd...

 

[Billerdzzz]

Because Andersen and Anderson is the same name just spelled differently just like Chris and Kris

Hence mistakes are easy to make

Anderson-Scottish. Andersson-Swedish. Andersen-Danish.

 

[Poochie_D]

I'm a little confused with what Anaheim is doing. They are close to their internal cap as it is so they add a goalie with a higher cap hit who's struggled for a very long time now? Why not just sign someone on the goalie market at half the price?

 

[sxvnert]

I'm a little confused with what Anaheim is doing. They are close to their internal cap as it is so they add a goalie with a higher cap hit who's struggled for a very long time now? Why not just sign someone on the goalie market at half the price?

Internal cap teams only care about real dollars being spent. $2,150,000 is nothing for a 1B goaltender.

 

[Theridion]

Internal cap teams only care about real dollars being spent. $2,150,000 is nothing for a 1B goaltender.

Pretty much right. It's actually cheap if you figure Bernier is a guy who can actually take over in an injury situation. He has seen enough recent NHL action and shouldered teams before.

He is more proven than Gibson.

 

[Ciao]

.920 in 2016 = average goalie ?

Tough crowd...

It's not the .920 average.

It's the times he looks like he couldn't stop a 2-4 sliding across the ice through the five-hole.

You know: the game-breaking soft goals from centre ice and all. It makes the whole team jittery.

 

[bumperkisser]

do we know what the damn conditions are yet for hte pick

 

[Ciao]

do we know what the damn conditions are yet for hte pick

More or less.

Bernier gets out of Babcock's sight; the Leafs pay half his salary; and the Ducks take all his cap hit.

Everyone is happy.

From the foot of Bay St., the rest is all gravy.

The future considerations will probably be a seventh-round draft pick or something better, if and when the Ducks ever have a seventh to send over. The futures almost don't matter.