Watching the Lightning (FanDuel Sun, Streaming, TV, etc.)

[Felonious Python]

Will FD televise the Rays next season from Steinbrenner Field?

I don't think there's been an announcement, but FD Sun still claims the Rays as one of their teams.

I'd figure that playing at Steinbrenner could be good business for FanDuelSN. There'd be a novelty to it, at least at first, and the lower stadium capacity should result in more people watching from home.

 

[Felonious Python]

 

[Felonious Python]

Ratings are down with both fall sports, so I don't think there's necessarily a product problem with either.

I think we can all agree that TV ratings in general are down due to things like cord cutting and streaming, but franchise valuations and HRR calculations are partly tied into the large TV deals.


edit: The NHL is kind of in a tough spot right now as teams like NYR, PHI, PIT, CHI, DET, & BOS (the only teams in the league according to NBCSN) are all pretty mediocre or bad, although NYR in particular might be able to turn it around.

Buffalo has been a good TV market as well, and Sabres fans anger seems to be finally boiling over.

NBCSN would be playing every single Caps game right now on Ovi watch if they still had the rights.

 

[Felonious Python]

It's interesting to look at the hot takes on NBA ratings. It's like the complete opposite of what NHL fans say.

Too much marketing of stars over teams, too much player personality, too much offense.

I don't know why people are worrying about TV ratings in the year 2024, but they are.


The NHL wants to be the NBA, and the NBA wants to be the NFL.

 

[Felonious Python]

It's a rational move, but will likely be bad for customers. Fewer companies out there competing for our cheddar.

At least paid streaming TV isn't that big of a thing. We're talking, what, 14 million customers split between the big two? Cord cutters generally aren't going to a TV streamer, but to Netflix.

It could be a reasonable conclusion that the later cord cutters are more resistant to change, and would prefer live TV. But how many of them are under 50?

 

[Felonious Python]

 

[Felonious Python]

 

[Felonious Python]

Initially, MySports will include national channels ACC Network, Big Ten Network, DIRECTV 4K Live, DIRECTV 4K Live 2, ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNews, ESPNU, FS1, FS2, Golf Channel, MLB Network, NBA TV, NFL Network, NHL Network, SEC Network, TBS, TNT, TruTV and USA Network. It will also include local affiliates owned and operated by ABC, Fox, and NBC. Their release notes that “Additional networks, local stations, and ESPN+, will be included in MySports at no extra cost in the near future.”

The package costs $70 and is currently available for the TB market.

It does not include FanDuel channels, or ABC (currently), so you'd still be paying extra for that.

I'm not really sure who the current package is for. Without network stations, you can't see much NFL. Without the RSNs, you can't see much pro hockey, basketball, or baseball. If you just sort of watch "sports" in a kind of non-specific, non-regional, whatever the biggest thing is on right now, golf shirt and khakis type of way, then I guess it'd make sense. Maybe college sports degens would go for it.

 

[Felonious Python]

Super Bowl for free on Tubi.


Fox, which doesn't really have a Hulu, Peacock, Paramount Plus to call home does own Tubi.

 

[Felonious Python]

In addition to digital posts, the layoffs include associate producers, producers/editors, VPs of production and VPs of content. That likely means a significant cutback on non-game content.

“Distributors are never going to pay you one penny for anything other than the games,” said sports media consultant Patrick Crakes, explaining his take on the layoffs. “Not paying for pre. They’re not paying you for post. They’re not paying you for the fishing show. Those were all-time buys. I mean, you will see more time buys. You’ll see more, you know, fishing, golf…adventure shows.”

People losing jobs flat out sucks, but it unfortunately makes some sense. A lot of RSN online content is redundant with team produced material. FD Sun can clip a highlight for Twitter, but the team does that, viewers will do that, etc.

 

[Felonious Python]

The Q4 Charter (Spectrum) investor call is today (right now as I type this, actually).

They've lost 8.7% of their cable TV subscribers in the past year.

However, if you're still a cable subscriber, some benefits are coming.

Spectrum TV Select video customers will soon receive up to approximately $80 per month of programmers' streaming application retail value at no extra cost, including the ad supported versions of Max, Disney+, Peacock, Paramount+, ESPN+, AMC+, Discovery+, BET+, ViX, and Tennis Channel Plus. This programmer streaming application inclusion is part of Charter's broader video evolution strategy to provide flexible packages with enhanced value, whether through full packages with seamless entertainment, smaller video packages, or a suite of a-la-carte programmer application options for broadband-only customers.

This would allow Spectrum TV customers to get the ESPN+ exclusive games.

Max will have Four Nations Faceoff games in February.

That last sentence caught my attention. "...a suite of a-la-carte programmer application options for broadband-only customers." I'm reading that to mean internet only subs get some sort of discount to streamers. It'd be a logical addition. Mobile phone companies will include Disney+ or Apple TV+ or whatever.

 

[Felonious Python]

 

[Felonious Python]

Fox had stayed out of the Hulu/Peacock/Paramount+ game.


I've got to figure that Fox has realized that they're last to this format. It doesn't make any sense to me to start pulling their content from other streamers to put it all on a Fox+ (not the official name).

There is an issue to transition the cable viewership of Fox News into another format (regardless of opinions on their editorial stance). An older viewership, often retired, verses the continually rising cost of cable.

Any streamer with Fox News Channel and linear Fox stations (including the NFL) will do pretty well.

 

[Felonious Python]

This is basically the scene at the end of Rogue One with Jyn Erso and Cassian Andor on the beach when it comes to cable TV.

 

[Felonious Python]

If we're talking just TV numbers, it makes sense that cable channels would be having trouble. Everyone talks like the NFL is fine, but their games are on the big OTA networks.

 

[Felonious Python]

 

[Felonious Python]

This could be the end of cable RSNs.


I don't think Fubo has said what the markets are (or at least, I can't find it), but a sports centric OTA station (meaning you only need an antenna to watch) could be the off-ramp from RSNs. The issue is the complexity of teams trying to negotiate with different stations in different markets, and disrupting those schedules. Fubo just becomes the OTA alternative to the cable RSN.

We'd still need two stations to cover both the Magic and Lightning, so its not so simple for us, but Fubo just filled a hole in the TV market.

I don't think that Fubo necessarily needs to do a big infrastructure build. There's plenty of OTA slop already that they can just buy out. Channels that show cowboy movies from the 50s, and so on.

 

[Felonious Python]

 

[AlwaysSunnyInTampa]

The NHL doesn't market itself effectively or even at all. And you need 900 services to even watch your own team. Pick a RSN channel to carry every game thats not nationally televised on either TNT or ESPN and kill off the Hulu, ESPN+, NHLN, Disney, Tru TV bullshit. All you've done is make it harder to follow your team by adding everyone else. Keep your other big networks like NBC and ABC in the loop for the playoff games


It's literally that complicated

 

[AlwaysSunnyInTampa]

And if the NHL doesnt do it already, charge like $19.99 a month to allow any yokel from New Mexico to Nunavut (and in Europe) to be able tune into *every* single game thats happening on a given night regardless of if it's on a RSN, TNT or ESPN. Just run the highest paying commercials in between breaks and make money

It DOES NOT need to be this hard

 

[Felonious Python]

The NHL doesn't market itself effectively or even at all. And you need 900 services to even watch your own team. Pick a RSN channel to carry every game thats not nationally televised on either TNT or ESPN and kill off the Hulu, ESPN+, NHLN, Disney, Tru TV bullshit. All you've done is make it harder to follow your team by adding everyone else. Keep your other big networks like NBC and ABC in the loop for the playoff games


It's literally that complicated

The MLS/Apple deal hasn't gone well for either of them. The sort of 'gatekeeper' deal of everything under one roof doesn't look that good right now. At least, there's more risk to it than maybe the leagues had thought.

On cable, there's NHL Center Ice, which is the out-of-market, non-national games, so they'd pretty much already be set up to do that kind of thing.

Ideally, they would get rid of the blackouts, but if cable TV is in a death spiral, only being held together by live sports, then it only makes sense for the NHL to get every dollar out of that before the industry falls apart.




The leagues/broadcasters have to go where the people are, and there isn't any one clear avenue for that right now. IMO, YouTube is probably the best overall option right now.
The NHL does need to figure out how to get NHLN onto Peacock, however. NBCU is already partial owners of NHLN, so that would be its natural home.

An end state could be free OTA TV games, some kind of FAST service, and/or YouTube carrying local games for free (ad supported), and an additional ESPN+ type out-of-market package.

Once a team takes over their local rights, I don't see why they have to only put the games on one website. If they just want raw viewership for an already free broadcast, then put it on YouTube, Tubi, Roku, etc. at the same time. They can sell separate ads on each of them, and people can randomly stumble onto the games again, like in the channel surfing days.

 

[Felonious Python]

I was reminded today that Fubo is now part of Disney. That could imply that going OTA would be mostly through ABC affiliates.

That would make the subchannel something like 28.7 in Tampa Bay. (if they don't replace a current subchannel)

 

[AlwaysSunnyInTampa]

The MLS/Apple deal hasn't gone well for either of them. The sort of 'gatekeeper' deal of everything under one roof doesn't look that good right now. At least, there's more risk to it than maybe the leagues had thought.

On cable, there's NHL Center Ice, which is the out-of-market, non-national games, so they'd pretty much already be set up to do that kind of thing.

Ideally, they would get rid of the blackouts, but if cable TV is in a death spiral, only being held together by live sports, then it only makes sense for the NHL to get every dollar out of that before the industry falls apart.




The leagues/broadcasters have to go where the people are, and there isn't any one clear avenue for that right now. IMO, YouTube is probably the best overall option right now.
The NHL does need to figure out how to get NHLN onto Peacock, however. NBCU is already partial owners of NHLN, so that would be its natural home.

An end state could be free OTA TV games, some kind of FAST service, and/or YouTube carrying local games for free (ad supported), and an additional ESPN+ type out-of-market package.

Once a team takes over their local rights, I don't see why they have to only put the games on one website. If they just want raw viewership for an already free broadcast, then put it on YouTube, Tubi, Roku, etc. at the same time. They can sell separate ads on each of them, and people can randomly stumble onto the games again, like in the channel surfing days.

The combination of (probably) the worst sports marketing in the world with the highest possible saturation of networks is what is driving the poor ratings. Again, simplify if you want ratings. TNT and ESPN are like the 2 channels everyone has. Stop putting your games on everything else. The only reason to do that is ad revenue. Well... no one is gonna pay top dollar for airtime nobody can watch. And regular people can't afford that many streaming services.

I don’t see cable ever completely failing. Any 2025 cable service is going to bundle tv and internet and let you choose your RSN and anything else you want to watch carte blanche with a bunch of apps either at a low cost or as part of the package they provide. They just need to be patient and offer something affordable. People will reconnect.

The NHL has the 2 main channels right. Simplify how your customer gets the rest of your games by putting them in RSNs that any cable service or app will provide and the NHLN

 

[Felonious Python]

The combination of (probably) the worst sports marketing in the world with the highest possible saturation of networks is what is driving the poor ratings. Again, simplify if you want ratings. TNT and ESPN are like the 2 channels everyone has. Stop putting your games on everything else. The only reason to do that is ad revenue. Well... no one is gonna pay top dollar for airtime nobody can watch. And regular people can't afford that many streaming services.

I don’t see cable ever completely failing. Any 2025 cable service is going to bundle tv and internet and let you choose your RSN and anything else you want to watch carte blanche with a bunch of apps either at a low cost or as part of the package they provide. They just need to be patient and offer something affordable. People will reconnect.

The NHL has the 2 main channels right. Simplify how your customer gets the rest of your games by putting them in RSNs that any cable service or app will provide and the NHLN

TNT and ESPN are what they're having trouble with. ABC ratings are pretty good.

Outside RSNs and NHLN, that pretty much covers TV (if you don't get NHL Center Ice for out-of-market games)


It's not that different from having games on NBCSN, NBC, NHLN, and RSNs.

ESPN+ exclusives suck, but Spectrum TV customers will be given ESPN+ free, along with other streamers, in the coming weeks.


I don't see the traditional cable bundle making a comeback, and internet equivalents YouTube TV, Sling, Hulu+Live TV, etc., aren't all that popular.

 

[Tampa22]

Cable is dying here, low ratings for most of the popular programs. Internet grow up, PC's and the Smart TV who bring lot of applications (paying or not) are full and kill the ratings.
Also, I'm not sure if the NHL product like to people who don't watch hockey often. I'm in some Facebook groups of fans who like old time hockey and most of them are not watching the sport anymore. I feel the same, the sport is not the same, I get bored most of the nights when watch games.
I can't understand how the NFL grow up, it's popular only in USA, it's something that I can't get it, but the owners are masters in terms of marketing, even here talk about the super bowl, most people don't even know the sport but newspapers talk about it.