Blue Jays Discussion: TOR Acquires Francisco Liriano, Scott Feldman, Mike Bolsinger

[Longshot]

Okay, Good.

Then why are we putting him in the bullpen when he's had 0 previous issues, and 0 current issues

Because they don't want him to leap from 133 innings as a career high to 200+. They've been pretty consistent about that.

The whole point of putting him in the bullpen is the limit the % increase in his total innings.

 

[Eyedea]

Okay, Good.

Then why are we putting him in the bullpen when he's had 0 previous issues, and 0 current issues

Because he's already surpassed his career high in innings pitched. There's really no right or wrong answer to this as it's not a complete science yet. There's many ways to go about this and they are choosing to do it this way.

 

[PG Canuck]

No evidence of that.

Shutting a guy down completely might be the wrong decision.

Who knows? Nobody really does.

Guys that have been babied have blown out their arms. Nobody knows what's right or wrong.

All situations and bodies are different. I don't get how they can be a reliable precedent when Sanchez could realistically start the rest of the year and playoffs and be perfectly fine.

There's only one way to find out..

 

[Le Cobra]

Zaun brought up some great points on Tim and Sid - particularly that they are placing one player ahead of the rest of the team - that will get some players angry especially if it costs them the playoffs. Why not give Osuna or other pitchers the same kind of treatment? After hearing Zaun's comments, I completely agree that Sanchez should stay as a starter and not transition to the bullpen

 

[Canada4Gold]

So we liked McGuire, but took Bickford, who didn't sign so that turned into Pentecost, and we ended up the long way around with a catcher we wanted, and another catcher too when that pick moved to a comp pick the next year

 

[Jozay]

No evidence of that.

Shutting a guy down completely might be the wrong decision.

Who knows? Nobody really does.

Guys that have been babied have blown out their arms. Nobody knows what's right or wrong.

So then why are we taking our best starting pitcher out of the rotation in the middle of a playoff race?

 

[Eyedea]

Zaun brought up some great points on Tim and Sid - particularly that they are placing one player ahead of the rest of the team - that will get some players angry especially if it costs them the playoffs. Why not give Osuna or other pitchers the same kind of treatment? After hearing Zaun's comments, I completely agree that Sanchez should stay as a starter and not transition to the bullpen

If Osuna was starting they'd be taking the same approach.

So then why are we taking our best starting pitcher out of the rotation in the middle of a playoff race?

Because this is their theory for protecting Sanchez's arm from too much stress.

 

[Longshot]

All situations and bodies are different. I don't get how they can be a reliable precedent when Sanchez could realistically start the rest of the year and playoffs and be perfectly fine.

There's only one way to find out..

Did you miss the part when I said: "who knows?"?

Nobody knows. Nobody has a for sure answer. There's a good chance none of us will know anything for five-six years. In the meantime, the Jays have made a decision for how they want to handle Sanchez and they have went out and made a couple moves to mitigate that decision.

It might work. It might not. Again: who knows?

 

[Starry Knight]

Yep. He better be good.

Trading for prospects at this time isn't just weird, it's stupid.

We traded Hutchinson for them. He wasn't on the Jays roster. Does it matter if we got prospects along with an MLB pitcher?

 

[PG Canuck]

Did you miss the part when I said: "who knows?"?

Nobody knows. Nobody has a for sure answer. There's a good chance none of us will know anything for five-six years. In the meantime, the Jays have made a decision for how they want to handle Sanchez and they have went out and made a couple moves to mitigate that decision.

It might work. It might not. Again: who knows?

I wasn't arguing with you but thanks for being snippy.

 

[Longshot]

So then why are we taking our best starting pitcher out of the rotation in the middle of a playoff race?

Really? Do I have to explain it again?

For the zillionth time, Sanchez's career-high in innings is 133. The Jays don't want that number to jump too substantially (they will tell you there is evidence young pitchers that see a % increase over a certain amount can damage their long term health). They would probably prefer him to be around 170-180 this year (nobody has really said a specific number).

He is at 139 now.

With 8 weeks go go, that means about five innings a week. That really doesn't fit with an every-fifth day starter. If they put him in the bullpen, he can pitch four-five innings a week and stay within in the limit they have set.

 

[Deebo]

Why not give Osuna or other pitchers the same kind of treatment?

Osuna still has 22 IP before he hits his total from last season.
Stroman has pitched 166 innings in a season before, he's good to go 200 this season.
Sanchez previous high is 133 before his 139 this season, so his limit is probably in the 170 range.

 

[Puckstuff]

We traded Hutchinson for them. He wasn't on the Jays roster. Does it matter if we got prospects along with an MLB pitcher?

In my opinion yes because it displayed hutchinson had value. We could have used it to trade for someone that could have helped now.

 

[Cor]

Nope, pretty sure taking your CY Young Candidate out of the rotation is the wrong answer.

I don't care about next year, or the year after right now. We are a World Series contender RIGHT NOW.

Our #2 pitcher is battling injuries, and can take a turn for the worse at any time. 3 of our best players are pending free agents this winter.


Shi Davidi JUST said on Sportsnet that some players are upset with this moving of Sanchez.

Heck, Sanchez himself sounded like he didn't want to go to the pen. He flat out said he had no stress, no wear and tear at all and wanted to keep going.

We aren't leading the division by 7-10 games where this is an easier pill to swallow. Things are insanely close to be pulling a risk like this to try and avoid something that has no indication of happening.

 

[Longshot]

I wasn't arguing with you but thanks for being snippy.

I wasn't being snippy. Relax Charlie Brown. It's sports. It's supposed to be about debate and discussion.

 

[Dough72]

hopefully the team that signs Sanchez in a few years appreciates this

 

[Cor]

In my opinion yes because it displayed hutchinson had value. We could have used it to trade for someone that could have helped now.

The 18M had value. Not necessarily Hutchinson

 

[Longshot]

Nope, pretty sure taking your CY Young Candidate out of the rotation is the wrong answer.

I don't care about next year, or the year after right now. We are a World Series contender RIGHT NOW.

Our #2 pitcher is battling injuries, and can take a turn for the worse at any time. 3 of our best players are pending free agents this winter.


Shi Davidi JUST said on Sportsnet that some players are upset with this moving of Sanchez.

Heck, Sanchez himself sounded like he didn't want to go to the pen. He flat out said he had no stress, no wear and tear at all and wanted to keep going.

We aren't leading the division by 7-10 games where this is an easier pill to swallow. Things are insanely close to be pulling a risk like this to try and avoid something that has no indication of happening.

There is no doubt that is a legitimate argument.

But, it's not a big secret the Jays wanted to limit Sanchez's innings this year. It's not like this came out of the blue. It was always in the cards. All of us have known it was coming in some form.

His performance has changed the conversation. But it's not like the Jays are suddenly springing this on him, the team, the fans, etc.

 

[Kurtz]

Really? Do I have to explain it again?

You wouldn't have to make so many posts if half of your posts didn't directly contradict the other half.

You've correctly pointed out that nobody knows if putting Sanchez in the pen will diminish his risk of future injury.

Then you go and blow it by saying that putting Sanchez in the pen is a smart move because it might diminish his risk of injury. Possibly. Although nobody knows. But it's the right move, evidently.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Nope, pretty sure taking your CY Young Candidate out of the rotation is the wrong answer.

I don't care about next year, or the year after right now. We are a World Series contender RIGHT NOW.

Our #2 pitcher is battling injuries, and can take a turn for the worse at any time. 3 of our best players are pending free agents this winter.


Shi Davidi JUST said on Sportsnet that some players are upset with this moving of Sanchez.

Heck, Sanchez himself sounded like he didn't want to go to the pen. He flat out said he had no stress, no wear and tear at all and wanted to keep going.

We aren't leading the division by 7-10 games where this is an easier pill to swallow. Things are insanely close to be pulling a risk like this to try and avoid something that has no indication of happening.

Glad to hear you don't care about next year. If we suck next year for any reason whatsoever I expect to not see you in here complaining.

People don't tend to care about the future until it gets here and then they're complaining in hindsight we did something wrong 2 years ago by trading someone or by not treating a player's health properly.

It's management's job to care about all the years. Obviously this year is priority, but if management just went forward as if future years didn't exist that's how we end up with countless complaining about why we suck because of things we did 3 years prior.

 

[Starry Knight]

In my opinion yes because it displayed hutchinson had value. We could have used it to trade for someone that could have helped now.

Liriano is going to help now.

 

[Eyedea]

In my opinion yes because it displayed hutchinson had value. We could have used it to trade for someone that could have helped now.

More like Liriano had negative value. This was ownership dumping cash and doing what they can to do so.

The Jays improved their farm system (acquiring prospects that are not only good, but close to the majors) while taking a gamble on a pitcher that was once a #2/3 as recently as last year. These are deals that big markets (like the Dodgers) make and we have people complaining? Pretty ridiculous if you ask me.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Question: can the Blue Jays limit Sanchez's innings for a while and then re-integrate him into the rotation by late-September and in time for the playoffs?

This is my question too.

 

[Cor]

Glad to hear you don't care about next year. If we suck next year for any reason whatsoever I expect to not see you in here complaining.

This is literally the first move I disagreed with.

No Opinions Allowed, right bud?


Also, for being snarky to me... how about some reading comprehension. I said I don't care about next year 'right now'. Get out of here.

 

[Longshot]

The 18M had value. Not necessarily Hutchinson

Do you like the Liriano deal or not?

Just curious.