Blue Jays Discussion: TOR Acquires Francisco Liriano, Scott Feldman, Mike Bolsinger

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Longshot

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Jul 2, 2008
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Yea, I don't think they make the playoffs if Sanchez is pulled out of the rotation.

I know they have said he will be put into the bullpen.

But have they said when? (Serious question)

What if he pitches as a stater right into the first or second week of September?

There's a significant difference between putting a guy in the pen for the playoffs and putting him in the pen for the last two months.

I'm looking at the deals today and thinking there are a lot of variables.
 

Cor

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I know they have said he will be put into the bullpen.

But have they said when? (Serious question)

What if he pitches as a stater right into the first or second week of September?

There's a significant difference between putting a guy in the pen for the playoffs and putting him in the pen for the last two months.

I'm looking at the deals today and thinking there are a lot of variables.

He's making the start Friday, and there's no commitment after that.

So chances are, Friday will be his final start.
 

King Mapes

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Has there ever been a starter that, this late in the season, is a favorite for the Cy Young (if not THE favorite) that got relagated to the BP?
 

zeke

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I'm not sure what your insinuating. Litiano will cost us the season?

If he pitches the way he's pitched all year, he may well.

we're in a helluva race here. replacing a 2.5era with a 5.5era could easily be the difference.

sure hope he gets back to being liriano.
 

Cor

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GREG ZAUN AND ZEKE ARE EVEN MAKING SENSE!

Come on Shaprio, give ya head a shake
 

Longshot

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First of all he is not a star. He turned it around in Pittsburgh.



I am viewing the trade based on the two years Happ offered to the Jays not now. They signed him as a FA. The trade can't be based off this year because they signed him as a FA.



My narrative is that AA wasn't a deadline guru and that his deadline trades were underwhelming.



Agreed.

Obviously you have decided nothing is going to sway you from your argument.

I'm done with this discussion. When they made the Happ deal they were transitioning from rebuilding to a "win-now" team. The Happ deal worked out almost perfectly, they received a solid major league asset who they converted into an even better asset and re-signed a year later.

Argue against it all you want. The reality doesn't change.

If Happ was only good in Pittsburgh, how do you explain this season? :laugh::laugh:

And your argument that you can't judge the Happ trade because the signed him as a FA is silly. They had him for a couple of years. He was good, he was okay, at times he was bad. They traded him for a legitimate asset. But clearly, they liked something about him - because they re-signed him a year later.

And your comment about AA's deadline deals being "underwhelming" is hilarious.

AA's entire tenure in Toronto they had one year when they were clearly contending - a year ago (and they weren't really contending, but their numbers suggested they were outperforming their record). And what did he do? Tulo, Hawkins, Price, Revere, Lowe, Pennington, Barney.

The other years they were either rebuilding and he was moving veterans for future assets. Or standing pat until better opportunities opened up (as they eventually did).
 

dredeye

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Mar 3, 2008
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If he pitches the way he's pitched all year, he may well.

we're in a helluva race here. replacing a 2.5era with a 5.5era could easily be the difference.

sure hope he gets back to being liriano.

I can't exactly argue that he's coming from a ****** team so he should be better here but the Jays also picked up two other pitchers that could start if he's awful
 

MJ65

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I am not sure why pitch / innings count is such a big deal with Sanchez (am I missing some thing)

All the great power pitchers like Clemens, Johnson, Halladay - they all used to pitch 200 - 250 innings and in case of Nolan Ryan he has pitched over 300 innings twice in his career
 
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rojac

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Whatever. A decision on when to move Sanchez will be made and what happens happens. And there's no way to ever know what might have happened if a different decision was made.

If the Jays don't make the playoffs, they don't make the playoffs. I don't know about you, but that doesn't really significantly affect my life. Now, don't get me wrong. I enjoy watching the Jays play playoff, but honestly, not having that doesn't cause me any distress or send me into a fit of depression. I do other things that I enjoy instead of watching playoff baseball and move on.
 

Jozay

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Jul 9, 2012
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sanchez to liriano is a huge let down. Hopefully Martin can get the best out of Liriano.
 

Finlandia WOAT

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. I don't know about you, but that doesn't really significantly affect my life. Now, don't get me wrong. I enjoy watching the Jays play playoff, but honestly, not having that doesn't cause me any distress or send me into a fit of depression. I do other things that I enjoy instead of watching playoff baseball and move on.

You truly are a Messiah among men.

TEACH. ME.
 

canucksfan

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Obviously you have decided nothing is going to sway you from your argument.

I'm done with this discussion. When they made the Happ deal they were transitioning from rebuilding to a "win-now" team. The Happ deal worked out almost perfectly, they received a solid major league asset who they converted into an even better asset and re-signed a year later.

Argue against it all you want. The reality doesn't change.

If Happ was only good in Pittsburgh, how do you explain this season? :laugh::laugh:

And your argument that you can't judge the Happ trade because the signed him as a FA is silly. They had him for a couple of years. He was good, he was okay, at times he was bad. They traded him for a legitimate asset. But clearly, they liked something about him - because they re-signed him a year later.

And your comment about AA's deadline deals being "underwhelming" is hilarious.

AA's entire tenure in Toronto they had one year when they were clearly contending - a year ago (and they weren't really contending, but their numbers suggested they were outperforming their record). And what did he do? Tulo, Hawkins, Price, Revere, Lowe, Pennington, Barney.

The other years they were either rebuilding and he was moving veterans for future assets. Or standing pat until better opportunities opened up (as they eventually did).

The Happ situation was great asset management but was not a good trade.

I said AA's deadline deals were underwhelming before last years deadline.
 

Longshot

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Ontario, Canada
I am not sure why pitch . innings count is such a big deal with Sanchez (am I missing some thing)

All the great power pitchers like Clemens, Johnson, Halladay - they all used to pitch 200 - 250 innings and in case of Nolan Ryan he has pitched over 300 innings twice in his career

*sigh*

As has been explained on multiple occasions, it's not the total number innings pitched. It's the jump in innings pitched from one year to the next for a young pitcher.

I can't argue the science, since I don't have all the info in front of me. But, there is evidence a young pitcher making a big jump in innings pitched from one year to the next can be harmful.

I'm not arguing the validity of this position, just the reasoning behind it. All of the guys you mentioned pitched bit innings numbers years into their careers.

Sanchez's career high in innings is about 133. The idea is he wouldn't pitch 25-30 per cent more than that this year.

He's at about 140 now, which gives him about 35-40 more before he reaches the limit.

With eight weeks to go, at five innings a week as a reliever, he should be okay.
 
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