Blue Jays Discussion: TOR Acquires Francisco Liriano, Scott Feldman, Mike Bolsinger

Status
Not open for further replies.

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
So, you'd have been happier with a deal where the Jays got no prospects but the Pirates paid most of Liriano's salary?

no, i'd be happier getting a better more expensive player and not getting any prospects back. maybe even go crazy and trade some prospects away.
 

Woodman19

Registered User
Jun 14, 2008
18,567
2,049
Was it woodman saying to sell on some controllable pitching to restock the cuboards with the prices set the way they were? Now obviously the salary played into things in this scenario, but it seems we've hit two birds with one stone in terms of adding to the mlb roster and getting a couple of lottery tickets. I just hope it plays out well with Liriano.

It was me. The "Dodgers Style" rebuild.
 

KuleminFan41

Registered User
Jan 5, 2009
5,845
614
Moving young guys back and forth from the bullpen can hurt them in the long run. If a guy is as in the zone and Sanchez is I'd just let him ride it out. I wouldn't mess with his routine.
There are plenty of pitchers who had solid careers moving from relief to starter. Derek Lowe , CJ Wilson, Ryan Dempster , Kenny Rogers , and David Wells all started off their first few years as a reliever who made the occasional start before becoming full fledged starters. Dave Stewart took 6 years moving from the pen to a starter before solidifying himself as a starter. Sanchez isn't going to stay in the pen for very long and he'll probably be a full starter next season . While I wish Sanchez would stay in the rotation, this isn't the end of the world if he comes out of the pen
 

Eyedea

The Legend Continues
Jan 29, 2012
27,796
3,645
Toronto, Ontario
we just traded one piece that got Liriano and 2 good prospects.

and hutch isn't exactly a prime piece.

Pirates were desperate to shed salary (Jays taking on full contract). Hutch MAYBE would have gotten Harold Ramirez by himself, but it's not likely. He wouldn't have been anything substantial in a pitch for a top end pitcher.

Who exactly were you interested in anyway? Because it doesn't look like any solid pitchers moved around. Matt Moore got Duffy and Lucius Fox which is absolutely ridiculous.
 

canucksfan

Registered User
Mar 16, 2002
44,743
10,447
British Columbia
Visit site
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Snider has never developed into anything and it is pretty obvious the Jays realized this.

Lincoln was a solid young arm, who had started and relieved in the majors. It was clearly a value-for-value trade based on the needs of each team. The Jays took a risk (imagine if Snider became good) and the Pirates took a risk (imagine if Lincoln became good).

And you can complain all you want, but Happ has developed into a very good starting pitcher. Where and how he did it is largely irrelevant. He's a Jay now and the organization clearly saw something (twice) to warrant trading for/signing him.

Argue all you want, but you can't cite a real example of an AA trade doing long-term harm to the organization.

The Happ trade wasn't good. The Jays got rid of him for Saunders. He was then sent down to AAA. He turned it around with Pittsburgh. Jays traded a few decent prospects at the time and now Musgrove has turned into a good one for two decent years of Happ. IMO the trade wasn't needed at the time.
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
Pirates were desperate to shed salary (Jays taking on full contract). Hutch MAYBE would have gotten Harold Ramirez by himself, but it's not likely. He wouldn't have been anything substantial in a pitch for a top end pitcher.

you think they sold mcguire and ramirez for $20m?
 

Nasty Nazem

Come at me Crow!
Apr 5, 2010
28,848
0
Canada
Pretty sure Reese McGuire was a guy Jays considered drafting a few years ago. I am love this deal, I like Hutch but I am not as high on him I used to be... he simply hasn't progressed in his development and seems to be going backwards if anything. His change-up is a nothing pitch while the slider has shown flashes it can be plus, it simply hasn't been consistent enough.

I just think its crazy that despite all the acquisitions Jays have made such as Grilli/Upton/Benoit/Liriano etc... their farm system has actually improved with the acquisition of McGuire and Ramirez. And its great both of them are in Double A and while they may not pan out or turn out to be great players, its great they are actually not too far from the big leagues.

Sanchez to the pen, of course sucks but its expected. I just think having Sanchez get to 200+ innings and then also start in the playoffs is tough... I personally think they should have just gone on an 5 innings limit or a pitch count limit per start in a way to keep his innings down and keep it consistent of making his start every 5 days instead of going max effort and warming up tons of times as a reliever instead. But Liriano is an adequate replacement and could be much, much more than that. Liriano has been fantastic the past 3 seasons and if he can be anything like that again, you are totally fine with the rotation.

If he's not, it sucks but playoffs have short rotations anyways so at the very least, you could use him as the 2nd lefty. Either way, I'm happy with what Jays did and they didn't break the bank which it seemed like many teams were doing with many of these deals.
 

Longshot

Registered User
Jul 2, 2008
11,161
312
Ontario, Canada
Did somebody (I think I have them on ignore) post that moving Sanchez to the pen last year "nearly destroyed" him? :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Last I remember, he was okay as a starter last year (considering he was in his first year as a starter), was injured, transferred to the pen and was absolutely dominant. Did he even allow a run in the playoffs?

Too funny...
 

Eyedea

The Legend Continues
Jan 29, 2012
27,796
3,645
Toronto, Ontario
you think they sold mcguire and ramirez for $20m?

You think Hutch could headline a deal for a top end starter? He's basically been Mike Bolsinger level for the past 1.5 years.

The best one that got moved was Matt Moore this deadline. I think it's pretty clear the prices were steep.
 

Finlandia WOAT

No blocks, No slappers
May 23, 2010
24,417
24,696
So either the bucs are really high on hutch: or liriano is unfixable. They gave up a lot to get out of his contract.

Sanchez stroman Estrada Happ liriano is fine, most teams have a crap #5, Jays were spoiled with two excellent months or whatever of dickey.
 

Cor

I am a bot
Jun 24, 2012
69,648
35,246
AEF
Damn, we got Reese McGuire too!?!

Amazing Deal!


Sanchez going to the pen is bullocks
 

Longshot

Registered User
Jul 2, 2008
11,161
312
Ontario, Canada
The Happ trade wasn't good. The Jays got rid of him for Saunders. He was then sent down to AAA. He turned it around with Pittsburgh. Jays traded a few decent prospects at the time and now Musgrove has turned into a good one for two decent years of Happ. IMO the trade wasn't needed at the time.

They Happ trade WAS good. They traded a pool of prospects for a guy they liked. They eventually traded that guy for a solid OF and then resigned him and he's become a star.

They gave up virtually nothing to get a solid asset, who they then gave up for another solid asset and re-signed as a free agent.

By every measurement, that's a great deal.

I'm not sure why you continue to argue against this deal. Your narrative that AA sucked at the deadline is hilarious without even thinking about the Happ deal. But using the Happ deal as an example just makes your argument even funnier. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

And, for the record, they weren't "getting rid" of Happ when they traded him for Saunders. It was a solid baseball deal. They had an extra starter and the Mariners had an extra OF (a need for the Jays after losing Melky and Colby). Suggesting they ran Happ out of town is silly.
 

Cor

I am a bot
Jun 24, 2012
69,648
35,246
AEF
I don't usually agree with Greg Zaun, but he is nailing it to a tee on Tim and Sid.
 

dredeye

BJ Elitist/Hipster
Mar 3, 2008
27,424
3,081
you think they sold mcguire and ramirez for $20m?

Id say it pretty clearly looks that way. Even mlbtr can't make sense of the deal literally saying the Pirates must have been desperate to dump the salary
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
If Liriano doesn't improve, and we miss the playoffs by a game or two, it'll be pretty unforgiveable.
 

MJ65

Registered User
Jul 12, 2009
16,380
2,233
Toronto
Can some one break down all the deals (I know who the plays) with analysis and what we are getting and who is the key acquisition - please
 

Cor

I am a bot
Jun 24, 2012
69,648
35,246
AEF
He just said they wouldn't make the post season...

He said if they take Sanchez out of the rotation, they will regret it and may miss the post-season.

Which, we are only up 1.5-2 games up in a wild card spot, and are essentially losing our ace, when our #2 is battling injuries.

So in essence, this very well could backfire massively.
 

PG Canuck

Registered User
Mar 29, 2010
63,606
25,637
Whoa, whoa, whoa, Donaldson has been scratched from the lineup tonight. What's up with that?

I don't think it's that surprising. Was he not just nursing a hamstring injury of some sorts? He was on the DH just the other game before having to come in because Tulo got hurt.
 

canucksfan

Registered User
Mar 16, 2002
44,743
10,447
British Columbia
Visit site
They Happ trade WAS good. They traded a pool of prospects for a guy they liked. They eventually traded that guy for a solid OF and then resigned him and he's become a star.

First of all he is not a star. He turned it around in Pittsburgh.

They gave up virtually nothing to get a solid asset, who they then gave up for another solid asset and re-signed as a free agent.

By every measurement, that's a great deal.

I am viewing the trade based on the two years Happ offered to the Jays not now. They signed him as a FA. The trade can't be based off this year because they signed him as a FA.

I'm not sure why you continue to argue against this deal. Your narrative that AA sucked at the deadline is hilarious without even thinking about the Happ deal. But using the Happ deal as an example just makes your argument even funnier. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

My narrative is that AA wasn't a deadline guru and that his deadline trades were underwhelming.

And, for the record, they weren't "getting rid" of Happ when they traded him for Saunders. It was a solid baseball deal. They had an extra starter and the Mariners had an extra OF (a need for the Jays after losing Melky and Colby). Suggesting they ran Happ out of town is silly.

Agreed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad