Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo: Part IV

[Leonardo87]

Fox has been exceptional so far. hes been mostly excellent

hes gonna be a very good player

The trend continues. JG and his staff continue to find higher impact players via trades rather than the draft

You can say that again,

 

[offdacrossbar]

Honestly I think you have both a pro-DeAngelo bias and an anti-Trouba bias, and then you see what you want to see accordingly. When you're down on a player, you go in looking for mistakes and identify literally every misstep; then the guy you like, it's overlooked or pinned or someone else or written off because he contributes elsewhere.

I think Tony is looking very good offensively this year but is still slow to react defensively and easily pushed around. I'd grade his overall defensive play as somewhere between poor and a bit below-average. That's fine, that's not why he's here. But I still don't think he's remotely close to Trouba defensively, and even a guy like Skjei who when he actually shows up is substantially better. I think Fox is better defensively. I think if you called up Lindgren, he'd be better defensively. By the end of the year, Hajek may be better defensively. That's fine, Tony is here to drive offense from the back end and so far he's doing that. So, no problem. If the offense dries up, then it's a problem.

But, we all see what we want to see.

I think this is an easy position to take and i get i. guys talented like he is cant play defense too.

But its not entirely accurate. Tony is an effective defender in that hes good positionally and a very gifted skater which allows him to keep up and play solid man to man D. Hes not big but he has an active stick and the ability to take pucks away. He lacks the strength to body up guys in front but he battles and shows good position with body and stick. Hes physical willing and engaged and always has been like this since his days in syracuse.

Where he struggles is getting lost in traffic and roaming too much but the entire D is guilty of that. The classic running around and leaving guys uncovered. He loses his check and he isnt really effective along the back wall behind the net where he can lose battles.

hes smart and can get pucks out of the zone with ease and thars a big part of “playing defense”. The best defense is having the puck on your stick.

I think hes more than adequate defensively and certainly given his skills to offset those shortcomings with his ability to create offense, hes gonna get top 4 minutes and i expect he will be just fine and eventually a plus player

 

[nyr2k2]

I think this is an easy position to take and i get i. guys talented like he is cant play defense too.

But its not entirely accurate. Tony is an effective defender in that hes good positionally and a very gifted skater which allows him to keep up and play solid man to man D. Hes not big but he has an active stick and the ability to take pucks away. He lacks the strength to body up guys in front but he battles and shows good position with body and stick. Hes physical willing and engaged and always has been like this since his days in syracuse.

Where he struggles is getting lost in traffic and roaming too much but the entire D is guilty of that. The classic running around and leaving guys uncovered. He loses his check and he isnt really effective along the back wall behind the net where he can lose battles.

hes smart and can get pucks out of the zone with ease and thars a big part of “playing defense”. The best defense is having the puck on your stick.

I think hes mote than adequate defensively and certainly given his ability to offset those shortcomings with his ability to create offense.

This feels like what I'm talking about. "Yeah he runs around and loses his man and can't win board battles but no one can on our team." That's minimizing some major deficiencies by basically saying the whole team sucks at it so oh well. And then "yeah he isn't big and he loses net battles but he's willing to engage and his positioning is good." Well that's great that he's willing and can skate and all that but defending in front of the net is a critical skill, so we can't just gloss over the fact that he sucks at it.

To me, he's easily a net positive because he moves the puck so well, seems to be very good at zone exits and entries, and produces more offense than any defenseman on the team. But his deficiencies can't be ignored or brushed aside because of the positives.

He's not good at some of the "traditional" defensive elements but is better at the things that have become more emphasized in recent years, is how I see it.

 

[True Blue]

Where he struggles is getting lost in traffic and roaming too much but the entire D is guilty of that. The classic running around and leaving guys uncovered. He loses his check and he isnt really effective along the back wall behind the net where he can lose battles.

That is absolutely no excuse. "Most of the D does that" does not excuse poor defensive play.

 

[JCProdigy]

Ugh I loathe whataboutism.

 

[offdacrossbar]

That is absolutely no excuse. "Most of the D does that" does not excuse poor defensive play.

And i wasnt an excuse. It was an observation highlighting tonys defensive lapses And in general a team wide concern.

simply mentioning that the entire D seems to leave the front of the net vacant too often- pretty obvious based on the number of high danger chances we give up, DOES NOT imply that its acceptable or minimized in any way when ADA does it. he is similarly guilty as anyone.

Such a simplistic objection on your part.

sometimes i think you post just to see your words.

 

[True Blue]

sometimes i think you post just to see your words.

As opposed to simply talking out of your tukhus? For several years now, you pick a player and decide that they need to have a separate set of rules than anyone else. On top of that, coaching stifles them and you ,in your sole capacity, know what is the better way to go.

 

[offdacrossbar]

As opposed to simply talking out of your tukhus? For several years now, you pick a player and decide that they need to have a separate set of rules than anyone else. On top of that, coaching stifles them and you ,in your sole capacity, know what is the better way to go.

The only one ive said that about was deangelo.

i was 100% against anything quinn did because we were never aware of what type of transgressions he was being punished for and so i believed it was a power trip thing more than a legit discipline issue.

ive been consistent with my belief.

ADA has been my guy since he was acquired.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Where those haters at? LOL. Fools, go laugh yourself. Note to those to not take those posters serious about other players

 

[Chaels Arms]

Guy is going to get PAIDDDDDDD

 

[True Blue]

i was 100% against anything quinn did because we were never aware of what type of transgressions he was being punished for and so i believed it was a power trip thing more than a legit discipline issue.

Why do you believe that Quinn owes you an explanation as opposed to keeping it all in the locker room

 

[offdacrossbar]

Why do you believe that Quinn owes you an explanation as opposed to keeping it all in the locker room

he doesn't and that's a very good point. everything stays in the room. thats a rule that cannot be broken.

for us lifelong fans that choose to be invested in this team it would be nice to know what quinns reasons were for benching him and being so tough on him.

personally, i think it was more tony proving to quinn that he can be trusted with regular minutes more so than all that other noise about him being disruptive or a "Bad apple". thats the "power trip" thing i mentioned. perhaps not a good choice of words, more of a right of passage prove to me you can be trusted to not hurt the team on the ice kind of thing.

to some degree, i think, quinn needed tony to prove he wasnt that guy before quinn trusted him.

one thing stands out to me, and its been that way since he as here in syracuse. i know the syr crunch owner howard dolgan a little bit but I'm friendly with his right hand guy, vance leaderman. we are facebook friends. we always talk at the game and chit chat via messenger and what not, anyway, i asked him back when tony was here about why he was having similar struggles in and out of the lineup and the answer was the same as what i just described.

über talented, wild card/river boat gambler on the ice, defensive trust issues with the coach at the time and ...... one of the most talented kinds on the ice at any given time in any game.

i always have found it strange though. whether in cuse or with the nyr, he was always popular with his teammates and never seemed to be disliked or a problem in the room.

just doesn't jive with what we were lead to believe last season. the lack of info always allowed for speculation and whispers of bad apple stuff. i knew that wasnt at all true.

 

[NYR Viper]

Does anyone think that part of the issue may be that for as humorous and jovial he may be in the locker room, many coaches may interpret that as not taking things as seriously as they would prefer? I could see that.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Does anyone think that part of the issue may be that for as humorous and jovial he may be in the locker room, many coaches may interpret that as not taking things as seriously as they would prefer? I could see that.

yep.

like the kid at school who doesnt have to work very hard studying because it comes to him naturally. he goofs off and messes around and that could effect other kids who need to concentrate. that kind of thing. eventually that kid figures it out and says less and acts more responsible.

i think you might be onto something actually.

i keep going back to trust. quinn did not trust tony last season. tony had to earn his trust.

he trusts him more now and with good reason, hes producing points but defensively quinn wants more from him and believes he can deliver that while still creating chances.

tony has a chance to be a key part of this team going forward. his play will dictate that. his personality shouldn't.

 

[True Blue]

i always have found it strange though. whether in cuse or with the nyr, he was always popular with his teammates and never seemed to be disliked or a problem in the room.

just doesn't jive with what we were lead to believe last season. the lack of info always allowed for speculation and whispers of bad apple stuff. i knew that wasnt at all true.

There were never any whispers about whether or not he is a good teammate. Attached to him were maturity issues and that he needs to remember that he is not a 4th forward.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

There were never any whispers about whether or not he is a good teammate. Attached to him were maturity issues and that he needs to remember that he is not a 4th forward.

Most teams would love to have a 4th forward back there that can still play defense, like he can.

 

[True Blue]

Most teams would love to have a 4th forward back there that can still play defense, like he can.

I am not saying he can't. First of all, the teams prior to the Rangers could not wait to get rid of him. Second of all, the comment I made was for the baggage that was attached to him. That was in rebuttal to the statement that he was perceived as a bad teammate.

Has he learned to defend better? Of course. Does he need to continue to improve in that area? Of course.

Tony has grown on me, but he needs to continue to take steps forward and show that his maturity issues are behind him. That will determine that next lucrative contract that he so desperately craves.

 

[effen]

that will determine that next lucrative contract that he so desperately craves.

Did someone say lucrative contract?!?! idk if you've heard but THAT BOY GONNA GET PAAAAIDDD

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

As opposed to simply talking out of your tukhus? For several years now, you pick a player and decide that they need to have a separate set of rules than anyone else. On top of that, coaching stifles them and you ,in your sole capacity, know what is the better way to go.

LOL you said tukhus...

 

[Chytilmania]

I know he does a Sam Rosen impression, he must have a good David Quinn impression too. That could be why he's been in the dog house.
But all his teammates love him and they say he lightens the mood.

 

[Chaels Arms]

He's been in the doghouse? He's 3rd on the team in points lol.

 

[Levitate]

He's been in the doghouse? He's 3rd on the team in points lol.

He got benched for some bad play in an earlier game but doesn't seem to have been an issue since

 

[Captain Monglobster]

Tonys lookin good, that pass last night was filthy. Really hope the brass can figure out how to keep him long term.

 

[Crease]

He's been in the doghouse? He's 3rd on the team in points lol.

It bears remembering that Sergei Zubov's number is not hanging at MSG because Mark Messier thought he had an attitude problem.

 

[nyr2k2]

Where those haters at? LOL. Fools, go laugh yourself. Note to those to not take those posters serious about other players

Like, who are his "haters" exactly? I can only think of one or two people who have ever taken an anti-DeAngelo stance, and IIRC it was for political reasons. Otherwise, most of his "detractors" are people like me who justified how Quinn handled him last year, or who point out (while acknowledging he's a big net positive!) that his defense is still lacking. Which doesn't make me a hater, at all. I point out flaws for pretty much every guy we have. So...who?