Value of: Tomas Hertl

[Rangeri]

Whats not working with him?

Well top 6 player have to be threat pretty much every game, and Chytil is still inconsistent with scoring or making the chances. I'm pretty sure he would get better at consistency, if he just played more minutes and with better players. Chytil have rough opportunity in the Rangers to get the trust, because he pretty much have to deliver immediately when getting the chance, and that's not necessarily the right situation for everybody to get better.

 

[burstnbloom]

Except that's not how this works. His trade list is submitted at the beginning of the league year. The Sharks already know who is on it. If they want to trade him, they will just start with the best offer and ask him to waive for that team. If he says no (he probably won't), they go to the next best offer

Sure - except every year players use this power to steer themselves where they want to go. The OP said the sharks can name their price and proposed the largest rental price Ive seen in a very long time for a dude with a potentially limited market.

 

[wintersej]

Martin Jones and Evander Kane had it too. Stop trying to be a know-it-all. You clearly don't.

I don’t know what point you are trying to make. That because other players have a strict NTC that it doesn’t matter?

 

[TGWL]

Hertl

for

Schneider, Chytil, and a 2022-1st

Not unless NYR could definitely sign Hertl going forward for whatever his asking price is. Even then, I think discussions start with a different prospect until the organization breaks down and gives up Schneider if they really want this move.

 

[TGWL]

Whats not working with him?

Center position. Most of the season is with meh line-mates and Chytil isn't a guy that's going to be smart enough to drive a line.

 

[Flan the incredible]

Hertl

for

Schneider, Chytil, and a 2022-1st

As a Ranger fan easy pass. Way too much for a rental.

 

[John Mandalorian]

He'll probably not get traded and walk for nothing this summer.

It's his last big contract. Why would he undermine himself by telling a team that are interested in trading for him what he expects to be paid at minimum?

And with that reality in mind, if a team can't get assurance that they can realistically re-sign him, why would they trade a ton for him? And the interested teams will think "we can sign him in the summer without giving up these assets."

Either SJ makes peace with the lesser trade value or they keep him. And they'll probably keep him.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

He'll probably not get traded and walk for nothing this summer.

It's his last big contract. Why would he undermine himself by telling a team that are interested in trading for him what he expects to be paid at minimum?

And with that reality in mind, if a team can't get assurance that they can realistically re-sign him, why would they trade a ton for him? And the interested teams will think "we can sign him in the summer without giving up these assets."

Either SJ makes peace with the lesser trade value or they keep him. And they'll probably keep him.

Because the reality is that it is in Hertl's best interests to pick at least three teams that he'd be willing to sign long term with and get that 8th year that he can't in free agency. And it's also reality that it's very likely not simply one team that he'd be interested in signing such a deal with. It could be plenty.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Because the reality is that it is in Hertl's best interests to pick at least three teams that he'd be willing to sign long term with and get that 8th year that he can't in free agency. And it's also reality that it's very likely not simply one team that he'd be interested in signing such a deal with. It could be plenty.

If it's in his best interest to go to free agency, why would he give any specific teams assurances or merely suggest he's likely to sign with them?

Without that assurance, teams are likely going to offer less. Teams would be required to both give up players on ELCs while also being required to win a bidding war. If they're going to have to out bid all other teams in the free agent market, those assets they're required to cough up suddenly seem more appealing. And if he's going to FA (because it's in his best interest), why not just keep the assets and make your best offer to him in free agency?

 

[Stewie Griffin]

If it's in his best interest to go to free agency, why would he give any specific teams assurances or merely suggest he's likely to sign with them?

Without that assurance, teams are likely going to offer less. Teams would be required to both give up players on ELCs while also being required to win a bidding war. If they're going to have to out bid all other teams in the free agent market, those assets they're required to cough up suddenly seem more appealing. And if he's going to FA (because it's in his best interest), why not just keep the assets and make your best offer to him in free agency?

Because if a team traded for him at the deadline they get the next 3/4 months of negotiating with him that other teams won't, the chance to offer the 8th year, and they get the player to play for their team during the playoff push and run.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Sharks should get a lot for him. Hertl is really good. And he seems like the kind of guy to extend right away at a reasonable deal with whichever teams goes out and trades for him.

what is reasonable?

 

[John Mandalorian]

Because if a team traded for him at the deadline they get the next 3/4 months of negotiating with him that other teams won't, the chance to offer the 8th year, and they get the player to play for their team during the playoff push and run.

It's in his best interest to go to free agency. That's how he maximizes his salary. So the negotiation part isn't really something that interfaces with this reality. I'm not saying it's impossible but it's a huge leap of faith to think you can maybe sign him in this circumstance.

Having him for a few months as a player is nice but you also have to live with the consequences of possibly it costing a lot to acquire him and then watching him sign with another team - unless you're prepared to pay whatever is necessary to outbid other teams.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If it's in his best interest to go to free agency, why would he give any specific teams assurances or merely suggest he's likely to sign with them?

Without that assurance, teams are likely going to offer less. Teams would be required to both give up players on ELCs while also being required to win a bidding war. If they're going to have to out bid all other teams in the free agent market, those assets they're required to cough up suddenly seem more appealing. And if he's going to FA (because it's in his best interest), why not just keep the assets and make your best offer to him in free agency?

Except it’s not in Hertl’s best interest to see free agency is the issue here.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Except it’s not in Hertl’s best interest to see free agency is the issue here.

That’s how he maximizes his salary. How is it not?

 

[Stewie Griffin]

It's in his best interest to go to free agency. That's how he maximizes his salary. So the negotiation part isn't really something that interfaces with this reality. I'm not saying it's impossible but it's a huge leap of faith to think you can maybe sign him in this circumstance.

Having him for a few months as a player is nice but you also have to live with the consequences of possibly it costing a lot to acquire him and then watching him sign with another team - unless you're prepared to pay whatever is necessary to outbid other teams.

Where has it been said Hertl wants to go to free agency? This is a thread about his value, and instead of commenting on that you're saying no one should go after him until free agency to ensure they don't give up any assets. Do you go to the trade threads of every single expiring player to make this argument?

 

[John Mandalorian]

Where has it been said Hertl wants to go to free agency? This is a thread about his value, and instead of commenting on that you're saying no one should go after him until free agency to ensure they don't give up any assets. Do you go to the trade threads of every single expiring player to make this argument?

Him going to free agency doesn't affect his value?

I'm not saying no one should trade for him. But the reality that it's to his benefit to go to free agency means most teams are willing to offer less in trade. Last year would have made more sense if the Sharks wanted to maximize his return. He has one foot out the door now.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

He has one foot out the door now.

What? What in the world suggests he has one foot out of the door other than the fact his contract is expiring?

 

[John Mandalorian]

What? What in the world suggests he has one foot out of the door other than the fact his contract is expiring?

The economic reality of competition (ie free agency) maximizing his salary. We’ve been over this.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

That’s how he maximizes his salary. How is it not?

He maxes his value of this next contract by making it 8 years and not 7. That's why it's in his best interest to be open to going to multiple teams and willing to be traded there so that he can still get 8 years there.

 

[Tbaybruin]

Boston will not go after Chick or Hertl

The money just doesn’t work

If they move Riley and DeBrusk all things work

 

[Groo]

Not unless NYR could definitely sign Hertl going forward for whatever his asking price is. Even then, I think discussions start with a different prospect until the organization breaks down and gives up Schneider if they really want this move.

Perhaps Barron over Chytil then. Chytil is a bit to soft of a player for a team that already has to many soft served players

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

That’s how he maximizes his salary. How is it not?

Hmm. Lets do a little experiment to test your hypothesis. No skipping ahead!

Part 1: Last 5 players to sign at max term as impending UFAs:
1) Morgan Rielly - 8yrs 7.5m per
2) Ryan Pulock - 8yrs 6.15m per
3) Mika Zibanejad - 8yrs 8.5m per
4) Aleksander Barkov - 8yrs 10m per
5) Colton Parayko - 8yrs 6.5m per

Who of these guys do you think left money on the table?

Part 2: Find the players you feel left money on the table and tell me how many teams you think would give them their new deal:
1) Morgan Rielly - 7yrs 8.57m per
2)Ryan Pulock - 7yrs 7.03m per
3) Mika Zibanejad - 7yrs 9.71m per
4) Aleksander Barkov - 7yrs 11.4m per
5) Colton Parayko - 7yrs 7.42m per

For players who aren't getting close to full term, you have a point. For an ~ 70pt C who just turned 28, not nearly as much.

 

[Groo]

The economic reality of competition (ie free agency) maximizing his salary. We’ve been over this.

It also maximizes other fans bases hopes in landing such a trophy player

 

[themelkman]

He'll probably not get traded and walk for nothing this summer.

It's his last big contract. Why would he undermine himself by telling a team that are interested in trading for him what he expects to be paid at minimum?

And with that reality in mind, if a team can't get assurance that they can realistically re-sign him, why would they trade a ton for him? And the interested teams will think "we can sign him in the summer without giving up these assets."

Either SJ makes peace with the lesser trade value or they keep him. And they'll probably keep him.

Every single insider has said the opposite so I know who im trusting.

 

[Sota Popinski]

He has a three team list that he negotiated into his contract for exactly the purpose of controlling his destination if he was dealt heading into free agency. His agent specifically negotiated for this. If he uses it, it will lower the return. Full stop.

Not every player negotiates such a limiting NTC for their UFA year. SJ didn’t just give it to him to be cool, Hertl had to negotiate and likely give something up to get it.

I don’t know what point you are trying to make. That because other players have a strict NTC that it doesn’t matter?

You were arguing that him "negotiating" a 3 team NTC is "part of the calculus" of a trade. And that they didn't give it to him to be cool. But they kinda did. It's just how Doug Wilson likes to do business apparently. We know this because he has given a 3 team NTC to SIX different players.

Hertl has a good relationship with the organization. He's not going to put the screws to them to steer himself to one specific team. Especially considering it's for less than half a season. If they ask him to waive to a playoff team, he will do it.

So if you want to fantasize that your team is going to be able to get Hertl for chicken feed because he wants to play for your team so badly he will only accept a trade to that one team, it's a waste of time. He loves the Sharks, and he's not going to screw them over to go play for another team for two months.